BMW M3 and M4 - The Icons
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
G80 BMW M3 and M4 General Topics BMW M3 (G80), M4 (G82), CSL and 3.0 CSL General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-07-2021, 09:21 AM   #23
Puuhapete
Private First Class
Finland
144
Rep
106
Posts

Drives: 2020 X1 25e, 2021 Taycan 4s
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Espoo, Finland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Funny thing is that C&D (same as R&T) are massive Porsche fanboys (can't fault them for that either) and Porsches are more clinical in their effectiveness than any AMG or M-car. Motortrend acknowledges this preferring the M2 CS over the Cayman GT4;

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...arison-review/
on the bolded I disagree to some extend. The E92 won ALL its 8 tests in Car & Driver. It was also set up against a 911. They loved the E92.
Appreciate 2
Germanauto9665.50
WWM3956.50
      05-07-2021, 09:26 AM   #24
LuvMyE92
Occasionally frequent poster
LuvMyE92's Avatar
2994
Rep
2,742
Posts

Drives: CT5V-Blackwing
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: RTP NC, USA

iTrader: (0)

Many years ago when I was a wee tot, I bought a Buick Grand National. I had no interest in the car really, until a friend of mine took me for a ride in his. Then I drove my own car to the Buick dealership and said "that one over there, please".

One reason I wasn't interested was because C/D R&T or whatever, really panned it. Then a year later, another reviewer just loved it. It's really quite subjective.

So, yes maybe the article is pushing a particular point of view, but overall it's quite positive and identifies that the car perhaps has shifted and evolved from the raw track beast E30 that would beat the tar out of you driving on the street, to the quite relaxed and comfortable G8x that will take you to the track and perform quite admirably, if maybe not quite at the level of a GT3.

At least that was my take on it.
__________________
Current inventory:
F22 & G05
Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing w/3 pedals
Past: E24,E28(3),E34,E36,E37,E38(2),E39(4),E46,E89,E92 (obviously),F01,F06,F10,F30,F87,G12,G30(2),G82(2)
Appreciate 1
      05-07-2021, 09:42 AM   #25
dialogical
Lieutenant
dialogical's Avatar
695
Rep
485
Posts

Drives: G80 M3 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dialogical View Post
I don't think it's a profound statement to say the $150k car doesn't compete with the $85k car.

These comparisons are given validity by the magazines that produce those comparisons.
The price gap has shrunk quite significantly though. There was a time that a very well optioned M3/4 still significantly undercut the price of a base 911. That is no longer the case today.
I disagree with this. The figures I've seen indicate that M3's have always been around the $75k range adjusting for inflation (unless you want to go back 20 years, at which point I'd question the usefulness of going so far back in time).

Porsche prices, however, have skyrocketed.
Appreciate 2
SYT_Shadow11421.00
Germanauto9665.50
      05-07-2021, 09:58 AM   #26
kyleb350
Brigadier General
kyleb350's Avatar
United_States
422
Rep
4,709
Posts

Drives: '21 X3MC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Milwaukee

iTrader: (6)

You're ticking literally almost every option to get an M4 up to the 911's base price.

I tried to spec an equivalent 911 but got lost in all the options in the configurator . Gotta imagine it's at least 20-30k more expensive for a comparably equipped car.
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 10:10 AM   #27
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
11421
Rep
10,296
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dialogical View Post
The G80 will obliterate a base 911. Hell, a corvette will obliterate a base 911. The true competitor is the 911 S.

Then you're in a fun world where you're comparing a dual-purpose 4 door sedan to a "pure" sports car worth twice its price. Just makes no sense.

I wonder if people ever do these things to a 911 S.

"A fully optioned 911 S costs $180k, and that's only $50k away from a McLaren, so we're stacking them up against each other."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba View Post

I highly doubt that in rennlist, you have hundreds and hundreds of comments in any new Porsche launch saying 'for that price I'd buy a Macca', etc etc. Highly doubt it.

The amount of Porsche fanboys that insist on spending their time in M3/BMW forums just to say that whatever the use case, whatever the price, whatever the question their cars are better is amazing. That they don't get banned is annoying, as they are not adding anything to the conversation.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 05-07-2021 at 12:32 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 10:12 AM   #28
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
11421
Rep
10,296
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (2)

I'd also like to propose the Nobel prize in Mathematics be shared between a forum member and Motortrend.

They have both discovered a fascinating and completely unexpected mathematical curiosity: that when you take car A and add all the options, eventually it gets to the base price of car B!! Incredible!! Who would have known!!
Appreciate 2
EXE462097.00
      05-07-2021, 10:13 AM   #29
dialogical
Lieutenant
dialogical's Avatar
695
Rep
485
Posts

Drives: G80 M3 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dialogical View Post
The G80 will obliterate a base 911. Hell, a corvette will obliterate a base 911. The true competitor is the 911 S.

Then you're in a fun world where you're comparing a dual-purpose 4 door sedan to a "pure" sports car worth twice its price. Just makes no sense.

I wonder if people ever do these things to a 911 S.

"A fully optioned 911 S costs $180k, and that's only $50k away from a McLaren, so we're stacking them up against each other."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba View Post

I highly doubt that in rennlist, you have hundreds and hundreds of comments in any new Porsche launch saying 'for that price I'd buy a Macca', etc etc. Highly doubt it.

The amount of Porsche scum that insist on spending their time in M3 and BMW forums is amazing. That they don't get banned is annoying, as they are not adding anything to the conversation.
Yeah the amount of negativity floating around this place is astounding.

You're not "proving something to BMW" by buying a 911 instead of a G80, you're just proving that you're shopping in a different segment.

I think the stark reality is that there's a huge amount of people that hate how the G80 looks, and from there simply found facts to help support their theory that "BMW is garbage now."

No matter how much you point out that the new car is only 100lbs heavier, that it's faster in every way, and that it's noted as being just as agile, they will refuse to face those facts.

So then you're just left with a group of people, plenty of whom no longer even own BMWs, complaining that things aren't like the good old days and using the new M3 as their vehicle to make that point. Sociologists would have a field day with these folks.
Appreciate 4
SYT_Shadow11421.00
F80SRT695.50
Jmpascual687.50
      05-07-2021, 10:29 AM   #30
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
11421
Rep
10,296
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dialogical View Post
Yeah the amount of negativity floating around this place is astounding.

You're not "proving something to BMW" by buying a 911 instead of a G80, you're just proving that you're shopping in a different segment.

I think the stark reality is that there's a huge amount of people that hate how the G80 looks, and from there simply found facts to help support their theory that "BMW is garbage now."

No matter how much you point out that the new car is only 100lbs heavier, that it's faster in every way, and that it's noted as being just as agile, they will refuse to face those facts.

So then you're just left with a group of people, plenty of whom no longer even own BMWs, complaining that things aren't like the good old days and using the new M3 as their vehicle to make that point. Sociologists would have a field day with these folks.
The same stupidity reigns supreme in the F8X forum. In the G8X it's just compounded a bit because 'it's ugly'

The Motortrend guy who wrote "I expected to hate it, but after driving it on the track it drove pretty well". The guy is a motor journalist and 'expected to hate' a RWD, inline 6 car that can be bought brand new for 70k with a manual? What car does he get into 'expecting to love'? Something 2x the price?

I'm heavily in the track world and it's so wonderful to use these normal cars to annihilate the same people who believe their car should be unbeatable (usually Porsche drivers) right where they think they have the biggest advantage: at the track. Their lack of comprehension about what just happened is absolute.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 05-07-2021 at 12:33 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 10:31 AM   #31
EXE46
Lieutenant Colonel
EXE46's Avatar
United_States
2097
Rep
1,531
Posts

Drives: 2020 M340i RWD Aka New E39 M5
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: State of Dystopia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
Many years ago when I was a wee tot, I bought a Buick Grand National. I had no interest in the car really, until a friend of mine took me for a ride in his. Then I drove my own car to the Buick dealership and said "that one over there, please".

One reason I wasn't interested was because C/D R&T or whatever, really panned it. Then a year later, another reviewer just loved it. It's really quite subjective.

So, yes maybe the article is pushing a particular point of view, but overall it's quite positive and identifies that the car perhaps has shifted and evolved from the raw track beast E30 that would beat the tar out of you driving on the street, to the quite relaxed and comfortable G8x that will take you to the track and perform quite admirably, if maybe not quite at the level of a GT3.

At least that was my take on it.
But that's nothing new, this has been happening throughout the M3's history. It sure didn't started with the G8x M cars. Thus this review is redundant rubbish. Anyhow, I think we give too much credence to reviewers.
__________________
Prior's: E36, E46 x2
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow11421.00
      05-07-2021, 10:34 AM   #32
dialogical
Lieutenant
dialogical's Avatar
695
Rep
485
Posts

Drives: G80 M3 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dialogical View Post
Yeah the amount of negativity floating around this place is astounding.

You're not "proving something to BMW" by buying a 911 instead of a G80, you're just proving that you're shopping in a different segment.

I think the stark reality is that there's a huge amount of people that hate how the G80 looks, and from there simply found facts to help support their theory that "BMW is garbage now."

No matter how much you point out that the new car is only 100lbs heavier, that it's faster in every way, and that it's noted as being just as agile, they will refuse to face those facts.

So then you're just left with a group of people, plenty of whom no longer even own BMWs, complaining that things aren't like the good old days and using the new M3 as their vehicle to make that point. Sociologists would have a field day with these folks.
The same stupidity reigns supreme in the F8X forum. In the G8X it's just compounded a bit because 'it's ugly'

The Motortrend guy who wrote "I expected to hate it, but after driving it on the track it drove pretty well". The guy is a motor journalist and 'expected to hate' a RWD, inline 6 car that can be bought brand new for 70k with a manual? What car does he get into 'expecting to love'? Something 2x the price?

I'm heavily in the track world and it's so wonderful to use these normal cars to annihilate Porsche scum right where they think they have the biggest advantage: at the track. Their lack of comprehension about what just happened is absolute.
I'm with ya - what does that guy expect to love?
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 10:41 AM   #33
EXE46
Lieutenant Colonel
EXE46's Avatar
United_States
2097
Rep
1,531
Posts

Drives: 2020 M340i RWD Aka New E39 M5
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: State of Dystopia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dialogical View Post
I'm with ya - what does that guy expect to love?
Kia/Hyundai et al lol, those are what's trendy these days...
__________________
Prior's: E36, E46 x2
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow11421.00
      05-07-2021, 10:43 AM   #34
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
11421
Rep
10,296
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dialogical View Post
I'm with ya - what does that guy expect to love?
RWD car, available 6MT, 70k starting price, ~50/50 weight distribution. "I expect to hate it" said no intelligent person ever

Perhaps a second Nobel prize is due for the people who have discovered that if you use stock cars and one car is designed to be a jack of all trades and can do all kinds of different things and the other is a vehicle that's extremely focused for just one thing, then the second vehicle will feel better. Also an incredible discovery!

Meanwhile, you can pee your pants laughing reading Rennlist where owners of moderate 991s, like the GTS, talk about removing the wheel well covers and adding sound deadening because they can't take it after driving 2h...
And here we have to hear idiots trying to convince us that GTx cars are fully comparable to M3s, just with a little less space.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 05-07-2021 at 10:50 AM..
Appreciate 2
EXE462097.00
      05-07-2021, 11:16 AM   #35
Germanauto
Major General
Germanauto's Avatar
United_States
9666
Rep
6,075
Posts

Drives: Alfa Romeo Giulia, Rosso
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

There's no denying that BMWs of the 2010s - today lack the visceral and engaging nature of their predecessors. However with that being said, "fun" is subjective and changes with time.

I used to think that no modern could be as "fun" as the E9X, however there are a handful of cars that have proven me wrong. While I am an addict for road feel, I can still enjoy a car that has tight, precise steering even if it isn't brimming with road feel.

I've yet to drive the G8X, and my sentiments of the two G20 variants are similar to what R&D has written here, however I still find these cars to be "fun" enough to earn my money.
__________________
Former
-2008 E90 328 black/brown
-2012 Lexus IS250 black/black

Last edited by Germanauto; 05-07-2021 at 11:28 AM..
Appreciate 4
KevinGS3282.50
SYT_Shadow11421.00
WWM3956.50
      05-07-2021, 11:17 AM   #36
swagon
Major General
swagon's Avatar
No_Country
13483
Rep
8,148
Posts

Drives: F80 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Safe to say almost everyone wants BMW to excel in their respective class. M3 especially. Road & Track including. Car enthusiasts are passionate about BMW, deep down; hence if they don't deliver a product to their liking, people get riled up more than that they would if it were a Mercedes, for example.

I don't think anyone expected or hoped that BMW would build a new M3 that is objectively worse than the outgoing model. This car, from what I read, delivers great performance and is objectively better and more capable. If you want a new car and don't mind the styling, then go get it.

This article praised the car in a lot of ways. I see no wrong with it.
__________________
Appreciate 4
Germanauto9665.50
stein_325i25051.00
heavyD^23684.00
      05-07-2021, 11:19 AM   #37
dialogical
Lieutenant
dialogical's Avatar
695
Rep
485
Posts

Drives: G80 M3 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
Safe to say almost everyone wants BMW to excel in their respective class. M3 especially. Road & Track including. Car enthusiasts are passionate about BMW, deep down; hence if they don't deliver a product to their liking, people get riled up more than that they would if it were a Mercedes, for example.

I don't think anyone expected or hoped that BMW would build a new M3 that is objectively worse than the outgoing model. This car, from what I read, delivers great performance and is objectively better and more capable. If you want a new car and don't mind the styling, then go get it.

This article praised the car in a lot of ways. I see no wrong with it.
There's plenty wrong, but it's not the writer's fault. It's automotive journalism in general that's basically useless.
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 11:19 AM   #38
Germanauto
Major General
Germanauto's Avatar
United_States
9666
Rep
6,075
Posts

Drives: Alfa Romeo Giulia, Rosso
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dialogical View Post
I disagree with this. The figures I've seen indicate that M3's have always been around the $75k range adjusting for inflation (unless you want to go back 20 years, at which point I'd question the usefulness of going so far back in time).

Porsche prices, however, have skyrocketed.
Yeah the G8X can still be had for around $75k if one avoids unnecessary shit. Unfortunately, dealerships seem to always stock these $90k+ models. If you want to custom order then dealers look at you like you killed their dog and do everything in their power not to accommodate.
__________________
Former
-2008 E90 328 black/brown
-2012 Lexus IS250 black/black
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 11:26 AM   #39
swagon
Major General
swagon's Avatar
No_Country
13483
Rep
8,148
Posts

Drives: F80 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Porsche scum
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Porsche scum
LOL

You probably should stop letting other people live rent free in your head
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 11:28 AM   #40
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
11421
Rep
10,296
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
LOL

You probably should stop letting other people live rent free in your head
They're paying tenants!!
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 11:30 AM   #41
secretariat
Major
944
Rep
1,452
Posts

Drives: 2016 X5M
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The comparison stems from the fact that the M3(4) and 911 have been competing each other in GT racing on tracks around the world for decades. Further, a very strong appeal of the the M3(4) is that they have always offered near 911 levels of driving engagement with more practicality and far less cost, so they were very appealing alternatives. While the M3(4) have always been closer to their MB/Audi segment counterparts in size, they’ve been closer the 911 in driving spirit. Every generation of M3(4) have been pegged against the 911. This is nothing new.
I understand that this is the G80 forum but to say that the "M3(4) have always offered "near" 911 levels of driving engagement and driving spirit " is pushing it a bit especially lately.
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 11:30 AM   #42
heavyD^2
Colonel
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
3684
Rep
2,955
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Too close to Santa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The price gap has shrunk quite significantly though. There was a time that a very well optioned M3/4 still significantly undercut the price of a base 911. That is no longer the case today.
Yeah but base 911's are kind of a myth. They exist on the website but you will never see a new one for sale on a dealer lot and very, very, very few people will ever order a base from the factory.
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 11:38 AM   #43
heavyD^2
Colonel
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
3684
Rep
2,955
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Too close to Santa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
on the bolded I disagree to some extend. The E92 won ALL its 8 tests in Car & Driver. It was also set up against a 911. They loved the E92.
Yeah I can remember the days (been a subscriber since the early 90's) when they were accused of being BMW fanboys but that ended a decade ago. C&D absolutely despised the F3x and was lukewarm on the F8x. They have been pretty punishing on BMW since then.
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2021, 11:39 AM   #44
dialogical
Lieutenant
dialogical's Avatar
695
Rep
485
Posts

Drives: G80 M3 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by secretariat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The comparison stems from the fact that the M3(4) and 911 have been competing each other in GT racing on tracks around the world for decades. Further, a very strong appeal of the the M3(4) is that they have always offered near 911 levels of driving engagement with more practicality and far less cost, so they were very appealing alternatives. While the M3(4) have always been closer to their MB/Audi segment counterparts in size, they’ve been closer the 911 in driving spirit. Every generation of M3(4) have been pegged against the 911. This is nothing new.
I understand that this is the G80 forum but to say that the "M3(4) have always offered "near" 911 levels of driving engagement and driving spirit " is pushing it a bit especially lately.
Not according to MotorTrend. According to them the G80 is very close to the 911 in speed and feel.


https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...-drive-review/
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:44 PM.




g80
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST