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      05-29-2021, 04:37 PM   #45
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I can't speak for Canada. Here in SoCal, they sell like hot cakes……above sticker allllllll day. Every region/market is different.
Sigh! it's plain as day but people are unwilling to admit they were wrong. What an epiphany to think that the folks who railed against it somehow had enough impact to affect sales dramatically lol.

Just funny when many of these people weren't going to buy one regardless. As a side note, Canada was never a huge market for M cars anyhow. G8X will be a sales success just like its predecessor's.
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      05-29-2021, 09:06 PM   #46
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Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
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      05-29-2021, 09:10 PM   #47
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The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
‘Good taste’ is subjective. I wouldn’t drive half of the cars in the BMW lineup. From the X6’s drooping ass and Pontiac Aztec silhouette to the m240i’s svelt stance. Awful.

But I don’t have to learn to like the G80. I already do. Mind melting isn’t it? But so is a dropped modded 335i making far noises with a grown man sitting behind the wheel. Yet I see that all of the time.

The G80 is gong to be one of the easiest car buying decisions of my life….if I can find one.
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      05-29-2021, 09:24 PM   #48
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Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
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      05-29-2021, 09:26 PM   #49
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The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
‘Good taste’ is subjective. I wouldn’t drive half of the cars in the BMW lineup. From the X6’s drooping ass and Pontiac Aztec silhouette to the m240i’s svelt stance. Awful.

But I don’t have to learn to like the G80. I already do. Mind melting isn’t it? But so is a dropped modded 335i making far noises with a grown man sitting behind the wheel. Yet I see that all of the time.

The G80 is gong to be one of the easiest car buying decisions of my life….if I can find one.
Ok then. Go for it. Swing for the fences. There's always those that like the fat chick.
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      05-29-2021, 09:28 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
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      05-29-2021, 09:35 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The G80 advertisement should read: Clear evolution in performance, clear devolution in styling.
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      05-29-2021, 09:53 PM   #52
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Looks good too
Dope shot. Thank you for posting it
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      05-29-2021, 10:03 PM   #53
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The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
'Good taste' is subjective. I wouldn't drive half of the cars in the BMW lineup. From the X6's drooping ass and Pontiac Aztec silhouette to the m240i's svelt stance. Awful.

But I don't have to learn to like the G80. I already do. Mind melting isn't it? But so is a dropped modded 335i making far noises with a grown man sitting behind the wheel. Yet I see that all of the time.

The G80 is gong to be one of the easiest car buying decisions of my life….if I can find one.
Ok then. Go for it. Swing for the fences. There's always those that like the fat chick.
Dunno man, the G80 is an exception even to that rule. I went from 4'11 just over 100 lbs to 5'6 just over 200 lbs, can only tell you my 18 year old self would be shocked by that, no way no how. My 35 year old self can't tell you which is more hot, never would've thought. I like em all. Now back on track lol.
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      05-29-2021, 11:13 PM   #54
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The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
'Good taste' is subjective. I wouldn't drive half of the cars in the BMW lineup. From the X6's drooping ass and Pontiac Aztec silhouette to the m240i's svelt stance. Awful.

But I don't have to learn to like the G80. I already do. Mind melting isn't it? But so is a dropped modded 335i making far noises with a grown man sitting behind the wheel. Yet I see that all of the time.

The G80 is gong to be one of the easiest car buying decisions of my life….if I can find one.
Ok then. Go for it. Swing for the fences. There's always those that like the fat chick.
Dunno man, the G80 is an exception even to that rule. I went from 4'11 just over 100 lbs to 5'6 just over 200 lbs, can only tell you my 18 year old self would be shocked by that, no way no how. My 35 year old self can't tell you which is more hot, never would've thought. I like em all. Now back on track lol.
This might be the most perplexing post reply I've seen in a while...
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      05-30-2021, 12:59 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The zf8 is better than the DCT imo.
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      05-30-2021, 09:59 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The zf8 is better than the DCT imo.
Really? Interesting opinion. Do you have an opinion about when Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Porsche will abandon the dual clutch in favor of the superior ZF? Are you certain your "opinion" isn't influenced by what you own and spent your money on? These forums can be great but can also be echo chambers.
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      05-30-2021, 10:50 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The zf8 is better than the DCT imo.
Really? Interesting opinion. Do you have an opinion about when Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Porsche will abandon the dual clutch in favor of the superior ZF? Are you certain your "opinion" isn't influenced by what you own and spent your money on? These forums can be great but can also be echo chambers.
I'm talking about my personal experience between my f80 zcp and my g82 competition. Simmer down, pal.
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      05-30-2021, 10:57 AM   #58
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I would agree. The car is selling. I think another brand would be the option if BMW's design direction isn't for you, generally speaking.
Hmm, based on what I see at both dealerships that I visit regularly, they don't sell like "hot cakes". As per sales guys which I know, "the design is the main problem".

I also bought a 2021 M340i Performance Edition instead due to the design. Even this one is not really blowing me away but the headlights are way nicer and more aggressive but elegant and the grills are nicer; at least it has a livable face. I am working to get the simpler Alpina grills so I can get rid of the "diamond" grills.

As an M replacement, after decades, I went with a different brand.
I just can not stand the face and the ultra cheap rear door/wheel arch which screams CHEAP as they were too cheap to make special rear doors that can flow with the hips in the back and make a distinctive look. Obviously they used the same sedan doors and bulked the back an left an area like it was done by me and my buddies in the garage.
The three colour leather interior, the design of the seats with too many parts and sewing, the bulk between the legs and too much protruded non-practical sides is another thing that I can not do. Nice for a day but that's it. I am looking forward to see the wear and tear of those in a mater of a year or two. Forget about more.
Some of us would like a wolf in sheep clothes, with a beautiful simpler design instead of screaming lemon colours on the seats... Even if you don't like it and need to go with a simple black, you are still forced to accept a grey velcro material on the sides....
I get the idea but is not elegant in any way. And if you want simpler seats, you don't get that package. So, BMW can keep it.
I forced myself to like it, yet, I don't take Viagra, so no, is not growing on me.
Forced myself towards the M5 as I love that thing, just to realize that is actually too big for my needs. Long gone are the days of the E46 or a nimble body dimensions. Still do not understand the needs of going bigger and bigger. Keep the niches as they are and people will buy what fits their lifestyle.

So yeah, it is what it is I guess...
I am a hard core BMW fan and I am actually hurt by their direction.

Nice car mechanically, but which I can never look at. I -personally- just can not bring one home. Sorry.
The F80 rear arches are the exact same way.
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      05-30-2021, 12:23 PM   #59
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Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The zf8 is better than the DCT imo.
Really? Interesting opinion. Do you have an opinion about when Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Porsche will abandon the dual clutch in favor of the superior ZF? Are you certain your "opinion" isn't influenced by what you own and spent your money on? These forums can be great but can also be echo chambers.
What do any of those cars have to do with BMW?!?!
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      05-30-2021, 12:25 PM   #60
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Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The zf8 is better than the DCT imo.
Really? Interesting opinion. Do you have an opinion about when Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Porsche will abandon the dual clutch in favor of the superior ZF? Are you certain your "opinion" isn't influenced by what you own and spent your money on? These forums can be great but can also be echo chambers.
What do any of those cars have to do with BMW?!?!
You mean the two cars you were going back and forth on weren't a G82 and a LaFerrari? Fucking peasant. The LaFerrari was cool but it didn't have wireless charging so I went with the M4. And get this, the dealership didn't even offer 3 free months of Sirius with the Ferrari. It was a no brainer at that point.
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      05-30-2021, 12:39 PM   #61
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Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The zf8 is better than the DCT imo.
Really? Interesting opinion. Do you have an opinion about when Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Porsche will abandon the dual clutch in favor of the superior ZF? Are you certain your "opinion" isn't influenced by what you own and spent your money on? These forums can be great but can also be echo chambers.
What do any of those cars have to do with BMW?!?!
You mean the two cars you were going back and forth on weren't a G82 and a LaFerrari? Fucking peasant. The LaFerrari was cool but it didn't have wireless charging so I went with the M4. And get this, the dealership didn't even offer 3 free months of Sirius with the Ferrari. It was a no brainer at that point.
"I need only the most engaging gearbox possible for my 4 seater sports sedan."

"Of course sir, that's why we offer a manual!"

"No no, a manual is too inconvenient for me."
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      05-30-2021, 12:50 PM   #62
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Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The zf8 is better than the DCT imo.
Really? Interesting opinion. Do you have an opinion about when Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Porsche will abandon the dual clutch in favor of the superior ZF? Are you certain your "opinion" isn't influenced by what you own and spent your money on? These forums can be great but can also be echo chambers.
What do any of those cars have to do with BMW?!?!
You mean the two cars you were going back and forth on weren't a G82 and a LaFerrari? Fucking peasant. The LaFerrari was cool but it didn't have wireless charging so I went with the M4. And get this, the dealership didn't even offer 3 free months of Sirius with the Ferrari. It was a no brainer at that point.
"I need only the most engaging gearbox possible for my 4 seater sports sedan."

"Of course sir, that's why we offer a manual!"

"No no, a manual is too inconvenient for me."
+1

I would never want a sports car/super car that didn't come with an MT, which is part of the reason Porsche still appeals to me.
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      05-30-2021, 03:09 PM   #63
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The F80 rear arches are the exact same way.
no, they are not.
While the F80 was not a perfection, the rear arches were round all the way following the curve. It did not flow perfectly but it was less obvious.
The middle line that included the handles also helped by providing a continuity in design. The rear door was also more protuberated than the new G80 (Look at the reflections in the picture and you can see how the shades go towards the arch.

The G80 is not the same as the arch is not round all the way, but rather has a straight line that is an eyesore. Anytime you look at it you start thinking if it was in an accident.
On the G 80 here is no middle line to help with the visual flow, the rear doors are straight and lack any protuberance (again watch the reflections) and the arch has a portion where is straight which doesn't help at all..
No, they are not the same.
On the G80 the design flaw is absolutely striking. It is so bad that you are thinking if there is something wrong with that rear fender. You can't miss it.
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m34m697.00
      05-30-2021, 04:38 PM   #64
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Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The zf8 is better than the DCT imo.
Really? Interesting opinion. Do you have an opinion about when Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Porsche will abandon the dual clutch in favor of the superior ZF? Are you certain your "opinion" isn't influenced by what you own and spent your money on? These forums can be great but can also be echo chambers.
What do any of those cars have to do with BMW?!?!
That's a really silly remark that does nothing to advance the discussion. Just nonsense. You need it spelled out? You actually don't because you're just trying to obstruct. Here it is: BMW does not exist in a vacuum. ZF is not better than DCT; not in BMW world or anywhere else.
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      05-30-2021, 04:40 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by m34m View Post
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Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The zf8 is better than the DCT imo.
Really? Interesting opinion. Do you have an opinion about when Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Porsche will abandon the dual clutch in favor of the superior ZF? Are you certain your "opinion" isn't influenced by what you own and spent your money on? These forums can be great but can also be echo chambers.
I'm talking about my personal experience between my f80 zcp and my g82 competition. Simmer down, pal.
Perfectly simmered and my point stands. As written.
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      05-30-2021, 04:46 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by m34m View Post
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Originally Posted by Der_Wolf View Post
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Originally Posted by m34m View Post
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Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
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Originally Posted by m34m View Post
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Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
Interior and exterior, the M is the least attractive car in the comparison, followed by the Giulia. At least with the others, there is some angle that is appealing. The M just sucks from every angle. Can't get to performance if I have to get myself to like the styling. Such a disappointment.
The car isn't cheap. You should not have to learn to like it. Can you learn to like an ugly broad? I guess. But why?
No doubt. I have a similar challenge with my M4CS. It's perfect looking, makes good power, but it's DCT, which is a hyped up automatic transmission. At least I look at it every time I walk away. I miss my 6 speed E92 M3. Great styling and it made all the right noises, I could even live without the torque.

The G80 is a hard pass though, it could run a 9 second quarter mile and I'd still pass.
If you're looking at an M4 CS there is no hesitation. I have an M3 CS and the DCT is great it makes driving the car an event. Don't believe the bullshit that the ZF is as good. Not to mention the design of these cars is peak BMW.
The zf8 is better than the DCT imo.
Really? Interesting opinion. Do you have an opinion about when Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Porsche will abandon the dual clutch in favor of the superior ZF? Are you certain your "opinion" isn't influenced by what you own and spent your money on? These forums can be great but can also be echo chambers.
What do any of those cars have to do with BMW?!?!
That's a really silly remark that does nothing to advance the discussion. Just nonsense. You need it spelled out? You actually don't because you're just trying to obstruct. Here it is: BMW does not exist in a vacuum. ZF is not better than DCT; not in BMW world or anywhere else.
No, it's valid. Just because Ferrari, etc. aren't doing it doesn't make BMW's decision to jettison the DCT improper/invalid/ and it doesn't suggest there's no merit to going with the AT either. Extremely different focuses between the vehicles you referenced and BMW's target audience/objectives with a road going family car (…one whose AT transmission is 99% as good as the outgoing DCT).
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