[Kevfran99]

Has anyone heard of stock rods bending on stock turbos?

[forcefed]

Nah, theres a bunch of stock motor/turbo/trans in the mid 9's https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Fhc/edit#gid=0
There's an 8.6 pass from botti on a stock engine but... maybe he means stock block casing so who knows.

[81bear]

Not sure if it’s to save the rods or avoid clutch slipping but I believe most tuners holding TQ at around 700 wheel.

[Kevfran99]

Originally Posted by forcefed

Nah, theres a bunch of stock motor/turbo/trans in the mid 9's https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Fhc/edit#gid=0
There's an 8.6 pass from botti on a stock engine but... maybe he means stock block casing so who knows.

Hes my current tuner and made me a race tune but said not to street drive it cause it could bend the rods. I’ve never heard of any rod issues on stock turbos even with PI so I’m super confused as to why he would say this.

[CMW33]

Originally Posted by Kevfran99

Hes my current tuner and made me a race tune but said not to street drive it cause it could bend the rods. I’ve never heard of any rod issues on stock turbos even with PI so I’m super confused as to why he would say this.

Lots of questions here.

Why would the tuner intentionally give you a tune that could break components? Why also would the tuner tell you this?

Why would street driving under partial throttle and less than max boost bend rods when full throttle and maximum boost would not?

[SwankPeRFection]

Pretty sure your “tuner” meant to say you need to be on race gas for that last tune to run it safe. Most people don’t just run race gas all the time, but regardless, nobody should be doing an on the limit tune where they know it’s pushing the limits of the safety of the engine. That’s bad ethos.

[Kevfran99]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Pretty sure your “tuner” meant to say you need to be on race gas for that last tune to run it safe. Most people don’t just run race gas all the time, but regardless, nobody should be doing an in the limit tune where the know it’s pushing the limits of the safety of the engine. That’s bad ethos.

No he said it’s a 1/4 track tune and it could load up full torque on the hwy when it would t on the track. Causing it to bend a rod. Hence the question to start. I’ve never heard of factory turbos causing enough torque to bend rods

[Kevfran99]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Pretty sure your “tuner” meant to say you need to be on race gas for that last tune to run it safe. Most people don’t just run race gas all the time, but regardless, nobody should be doing an on the limit tune where they know it’s pushing the limits of the safety of the engine. That’s bad ethos.

Incorrect. Please see my response above.

[SwankPeRFection]

How exactly are you going to load up full torque on the highway but not on the track? 😂 Again, perhaps it’s sustained runs where it’s not safe for anything more than 1/4 and the 11 sec or less times of full load, which again, isn’t the best way to tune, even for a full power tune.

[Mapper]

Originally Posted by Kevfran99

No he said it’s a 1/4 track tune and it could load up full torque on the hwy when it would t on the track. Causing it to bend a rod. Hence the question to start. I’ve never heard of factory turbos causing enough torque to bend rods

I would think a prepped track would break stuff before street could, not the other way around.
If anything, full torque just causes tire spin on street.

As to rods bending stock turbos. Never heard of it happening. Echo back to the 1030hp and 940ft lbs torque red bull drift cars beat on hard.. zero issues. Stock rods.

Ref:
https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...tbrothers.html

[SwankPeRFection]

He better watch out with that rod bending tune he’s got… he might blow the welds on his manifold if he uses it on the street. 🤣

[ChrisM4]

I thought a couple of people in here bent rods? Just can’t remember if every case was on hybrid turbos or not…

[ZheroG80]

He doesn't want him to use it on the street because its a kill tune specifically for 1/4 and the mph you'd run in a 1/4.

These cars if you hit 6th gear and keep going on a spicy map will delete a rod, piston, etc. So if you're racing on the highway and you start getting into the 150mph plus races its over. The rpm drop from 5th to 6th puts a ton of load at wot. All the heat=rod deleted

[SwankPeRFection]

^^^^ And that’s the point I was making. The load points on the map need to be properly adjusted when tuning so that you could in theory stay on that load point and it won’t det no matter what. Problem is, tuners in this country don’t always tune along those same principals as let’s say the guys in Australia or even around Europe. Those guys will get you a peak power map that you can literally beat on day in and day out and it’s safe and reliable. Here is the only place I keep seeing “kill maps” that might as well be kill your motor maps rather than kill opponent maps. 🙄

If the shit can’t run on the Autobahn pegged without grenading, then your tune is trash in my book. Maybe go back to studying engine tuning principals, because there is a science behind it and a definite ceiling to every single load point of the VE of an engine.

[ZheroG80]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

^^^^ And that’s the point I was making. The load points on the map need to be properly adjusted when tuning so that you could in theory stay on that load point and it won’t det no matter what. Problem is, tuners in this country don’t always tune along those same principals as let’s say the guys in Australia or even around Europe. Those guys will get you a peak power map that you can literally beat on day in and day out and it’s safe and reliable. Here is the only place I keep seeing “kill maps” that might as well be kill your motor maps rather than kill opponent maps. 🙄

If the shit can’t run on the Autobahn pegged without grenading, then your tune is trash in my book. Maybe go back to studying engine tuning principals, because there is a science behind it and a definite ceiling to every single load point of the VE of an engine.

It's not the tuners, it's the owners of the cars lol I am sure his map that he can use daily still has a ton of power and is fine. But when a customer requests a moon tune to try and squeeze out those few extra tenths the tuner warns them of what is going to happen lol

[christianb5s4]

Originally Posted by ZheroG80

It's not the tuners, it's the owners of the cars lol I am sure his map that he can use daily still has a ton of power and is fine. But when a customer requests a moon tune to try and squeeze out those few extra tenths the tuner warns them of what is going to happen lol

Assuming it's a competent tuner.*

[SwankPeRFection]

^^^ Yes and no. If the VE and limits of the engine are respected, pushing beyond that won’t gain any more power, so safety can’t be a concern. If you actually do load based tuning on a dyno where you lock an engine into each load cell for the fueling and timing maps, you’ll actually see that beyond a certain boost/fueling/ignition level at each point in the RPM band, the power falls off before it gets unsafe. Adding more timing to get more power won’t do anything at that point, so it’s pointless. I think where the issue is, tuners here like to ride the engine safeties too much or by a larger margin then they should because either their tuning skill level isn’t up to snuff or they believe the safeties can be ridden like that and it’s fine… they can’t. The safeties are there for the occasional unexpected event, not a constant knocking on the door and pushing against it thinking it keeps everything in check. Eventually the door breaks down from the constant dependency abuse it’s taken. This is where the real issue is and I’ve seen it on a lot of platforms and tunes.

[ZheroG80]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

^^^ Yes and no. If the VE and limits of the engine are respected, pushing beyond that won’t gain any more power, so safety can’t be a concern. If you actually do load based tuning on a dyno where you lock an engine into each load cell for the fueling and timing maps, you’ll actually see that beyond a certain boost/fueling/ignition level at each point in the RPM band, the power falls off before it gets unsafe. Adding more timing to get more power won’t do anything at that point, so it’s pointless. I think where the issue is, tuners here like to ride the engine safeties too much or by a larger margin then they should because either their tuning skill level isn’t up to snuff or they believe the safeties can be ridden like that and it’s fine… they can’t. The safeties are there for the occasional unexpected event, not a constant knocking on the door and pushing against it thinking it keeps everything in check. Eventually the door breaks down from the constant dependency abuse it’s taken. This is where the real issue is and I’ve seen it on a lot of platforms and tunes.

You are correct on the powerband limits but they are bringing in the power earlier on these cars which increases the tq on the low end, hence them using it for 1/4 mile that can be done in gears 1-5. The tuners have figured out where the safeties are and they stay away unless requested (or its their own shops car, personal car, etc)

When you hit 6th you've got so much heat and load (including the crazy timing lol) on the RPM drop it will bend a rod. The tuner knows what they are doing, its the users who are trying to push the platform on factory parts who are opting for this type of tune.

This platform has a ton of amazing tuners and it continues to grow.

[Holset]

Stock turbos can actually often bend rod more easily than aftermarket turbos or a big ass single turbo.
Thats because they spool sooner and can make more boost down low in the rev range so more torque more cylinder pressure and risk for knock also.
It of course depending how you tune.

[bilal]

the s58 rods are the same ones that have been used in the s63 engine
maybe thats why your tuner stated that they might bend if going to aggressive with the tune cz the rods were the weak link in the s63 engine

[forcefed]

Originally Posted by bilal

the s58 rods are the same ones that have been used in the s63 engine

People just keep repeating that... skip to 5:02

[SwankPeRFection]

The S58 engine training manual states the following for the rods.

Connecting rod bore hole in small connecting rod eye
Lead-free connecting rod bearing shells Adopted from S63B44T4 engine