[AYounglove10]

I’ll preface this thread with stating I’ve owned both a 991.2 base carrera (pdk) and 2 G82 M4 Comps. I’ve had a ton of seat time in both chassis and feel confident I can compare the two adequately in terms of performance, fit/finish, tech, handling, etc.

Today, I had an opportunity for a solid test drive of an ‘18 991.2 Carrera GTS. It was fairly loaded, with PDK, Sport Chrono/SPASM/Sport Exhaust, the Premium Package (heated/cooled seats, 18 way seats, Sunroof, LED Lights, Bose system, etc). It was a 2wd model in Agate Grey over Bordeaux Red/Black Interior. Amazing spec, CPO with 24k miles.

There’s a reason I’ve owned 2 G82s. For the money, it’s my favorite 2 door sport luxury coupe on the market. Great looks (to me) aggressive, very quick, yet comfortable and big enough for a daily which is how I use mine (SO has the Denali for all the meaningful errands/chores/big road trips).

Power: M4c is quicker in just about every meaningful way, at any speed. They’re not miles and miles apart, but the butt dyno says it’ll pull 1-1.5 car lengths up to 100mph. The GTS is no slouch, and it’s lighter weight definitely gives it a “fling down the road” sensation, whereas the M4 pulls like a freight train.

Acceleration: both my M4s and the GTS are rear wheel drive. The GTS would likely take the M4 from a dig more consistently (operative word). I’ve certainly found the M4s more difficult to find a consistent launch. BUT, if traction is favorable, the M4 will match the GTS to 60mph. After 60, it’s all M4, as would any 60-130mph pulls.

Ride Quality: this one surprised me. In the softest chassis settings, I actually felt the GTS to be a bit more comfortable. I drove the cars back to back on the same roads within minutes of each other. The M4 even won the tire lottery over the GTS (Michelins vs. P Zeros). There was a much larger discrepancy between comfort and sport chassis settings for the GTS. In Sport, the GTS was VERY stiff compared to the M. Again, same roads, temps, minutes apart.

Handling: GTS is my preferred handler, not surprising. The M4 is still good, has wicked turn in for a front engined car. Great grip, playful, and sharp for the price point. But the GTS plays a different level. Immense grip from the 305 rears, so damn poised and balanced, nothing gets it unsettled or off its line when driven with passion. There’s more body roll in the M4 that I honestly didn’t even notice until driving the cars back to back. The GTS is even more keen to turn in.

Transmission: no contest really. PDK every good darn day. For every reason. Smooth and seamless when putting about, and incredibly sharp/snappy (without being jarring or upsetting the chassis) when driven aggressively. This was the same for my previous base 991.2 carrera as well. The auto in the M4c is certainly functional and better than most, but it can’t hold a candle to PDK.

Tech: M4 all the way. I missed the M4’s heads up display immediately when I drove the GTS. I like having that extra bit of info available and to avoid the distraction of looking downward. The wireless CarPlay in the M4 works so well and consistently. Never issues here. I will say that the Bose in the 911 is head and shoulders above the Hardon Kardon in the M4. BMW really needs to offer a Bowers and Wilkins option, given how inflated the price of the G8X generation has risen to. There are people that would pay $3-5k for a true top tier sound system, myself included. I’ve listened to Burmeister systems in 911s before and it’s incredible. Pricey, but worthwhile.

Chassis: for this, I’m referring to the structure of the car itself. The GTS (all newer 911s, really) is very stiff. Mind you, I’m not talking about ride quality, I’m talking about that built like a bank vault feel that I do look for when making purchases like this. The 911 just has this solid, put together feel that the M4 simply cannot replicate. In isolation, the M4 feels like a very button down car with a stiff chassis. However, driving them back to back and hopping back into the M4, the G82 honestly felt like a bit of a floaty boat. This was actually the most lasting impression of the comparison.

Practicality: of course, the M4 wins. But don’t count out the 911. I’ve taken the 911 to many Costco trips in the past and it always fit a surprising amount of items if you think a bit about how to properly load the car. But there’s no doubt the M4 will fit far more, and even has a real world use for the back seat for anyone 5’10” and under for short-moderate length trips.

Price: apples and oranges. Both of my G82s clocked it under $90k. For the money, I feel like it’s truly worth it. It has all the performance and tech one could ask for. The GTS I drove is now a 5 year old car and it’s still stickers for $130k with how insane the Porsche market has become. I purchased my previous 2017 911 in September of 2019 as an off-lease CPO car that was well optioned with only 14k miles for $85k. Those were the days. That SAME car with similar miles 4 years later is probably $90-95k. Insane.

Conclusion. I have all the respect in the world for the G8X. I’ve enjoyed my most recent M4C immensely, taken it on a few solid road trips, had tons of compliments and fun conversations, and enjoy my time with it. But if I’m honest, it was a holdover until 911 prices come back down to earth. There’s that solid bank vault feel and perfect chassis dynamics that is inescapable, especially if you’ve spent serious amount of time behind the wheel of one. Even the base Carrera FEELS like a much more expensive car, even if the performance numbers are even, if not in favor of the M4c.

This particular example I felt was still more money than I wanted to spend on a 5 year old car. But the test drive kicked me into gear to seek out the right situation and get myself back into another 911 as soon as possible.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Pzeros have way stiffer sidewalls than Michelins, which translates to a less mushy and better handling feel. Pzeros are a much more connected feeling tire but they also don't ride as comfortable. That probably explains some of what you reported so adjust for that.

[EatThatLunchBaby]

Excellent write up, thank you for taking the time to share all your thoughts

[M4ord]

Excellent write up, especially for someone like myself who has not spent any signifigant time in a Porsche other than to park a few of them.

Every article, thread, or post across the internet identifies a clear distinction between the platforms. Your thoughts are by far the most insightful into that seperation from someone who has not been able to spend several hundred hours exploring it, but has a frame of reference with the M4. Thank you.

[vbb]

Great review, thanks for posting! The most important part of the review to me is your bit about the price differences and how Porsche prices have taken off. I owned a couple of 911s about 6-7 years ago when you could get a nice used one without spending crazy money. Now they've ventured into a different realm with pricing. I am not sure the prices will "come back down to earth" though. It seems that both Porsche as a company and the Porsche buyer have realized the cars were undervalued, and prices have adjusted accordingly. I think you're right to just go ahead and pull the trigger as soon as you find the one that fits your budget and desires.

If I didn't need a car with functional backseats I'd definitely consider getting another 911 and daily driving it.

[AYounglove10]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Pzeros have way stiffer sidewalls than Michelins, which translates to a less mushy and better handling feel. Pzeros are a much more connected feeling tire but they also don't ride as comfortable. That probably explains some of what you reported so adjust for that.

Thanks for the input! I’d refer back to my comment above about the ride/handling. The M4 had the Michelins, and the 911 the P Zeros. I actually think the GTS rides BETTER in comfort mode than the M4C. Less crashy over mild-moderate broken pavement. This changed when I go over to sport mode where the GTS becomes STIFFER than the M4C in Sport Plus. There is much wider difference between the settings for the 2 cars.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by AYounglove10

Thanks for the input! I’d refer back to my comment above about the ride/handling. The M4 had the Michelins, and the 911 the P Zeros. I actually think the GTS rides BETTER in comfort mode than the M4C. Less crashy over mild-moderate broken pavement. This changed when I go over to sport mode where the GTS becomes STIFFER than the M4C in Sport Plus. There is much wider difference between the settings for the 2 cars.

Very interesting thanks for clarifying. I loved hearing your impressions.

[BIGW0RM]

Hmm.

I owned a 991.2 GTS before moving on to two 992 S's. The 991.2 GTS and the 992 S are very similar in power. I then went 992 S to G80 M3. Then G80 to G80x M3.

I seem to remember that all my 911's felt MUCH faster than any of my M cars. At least the RWD ones. Id be curious to see how a 991.2 GTS or 992 S does against an AWD M3/M4. But I think Porsche are faster all around period.

[AYounglove10]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

Hmm.

I owned a 991.2 GTS before moving on to two 992 S's. The 991.2 GTS and the 992 S are very similar in power. I then went 992 S to G80 M3. Then G80 to G80x M3.

I seem to remember that all my 911's felt MUCH faster than any of my M cars. At least the RWD ones. Id be curious to see how a 991.2 GTS or 992 S does against an AWD M3/M4. But I think Porsche are faster all around period.

Interesting. I may have felt the exact same had I not driven the cars back to back. My G82 is bone stock and (for example) the on throttle roll in 3rd and 4th gear the clear winner was the M4. Again, not by miles, but there was a difference. My passenger felt the same.

[MichaelB1969]

Originally Posted by AYounglove10

I’ll preface this thread with stating I’ve owned both a 991.2 base carrera (pdk) and 2 G82 M4 Comps. I’ve had a ton of seat time in both chassis and feel confident I can compare the two adequately in terms of performance, fit/finish, tech, handling, etc.

Today, I had an opportunity for a solid test drive of an ‘18 991.2 Carrera GTS. It was fairly loaded, with PDK, Sport Chrono/SPASM/Sport Exhaust, the Premium Package (heated/cooled seats, 18 way seats, Sunroof, LED Lights, Bose system, etc). It was a 2wd model in Agate Grey over Bordeaux Red/Black Interior. Amazing spec, CPO with 24k miles.

There’s a reason I’ve owned 2 G82s. For the money, it’s my favorite 2 door sport luxury coupe on the market. Great looks (to me) aggressive, very quick, yet comfortable and big enough for a daily which is how I use mine (SO has the Denali for all the meaningful errands/chores/big road trips).

Power: M4c is quicker in just about every meaningful way, at any speed. They’re not miles and miles apart, but the butt dyno says it’ll pull 1-1.5 car lengths up to 100mph. The GTS is no slouch, and it’s lighter weight definitely gives it a “fling down the road” sensation, whereas the M4 pulls like a freight train.

Acceleration: both my M4s and the GTS are rear wheel drive. The GTS would likely take the M4 from a dig more consistently (operative word). I’ve certainly found the M4s more difficult to find a consistent launch. BUT, if traction is favorable, the M4 will match the GTS to 60mph. After 60, it’s all M4, as would any 60-130mph pulls.

Ride Quality: this one surprised me. In the softest chassis settings, I actually felt the GTS to be a bit more comfortable. I drove the cars back to back on the same roads within minutes of each other. The M4 even won the tire lottery over the GTS (Michelins vs. P Zeros). There was a much larger discrepancy between comfort and sport chassis settings for the GTS. In Sport, the GTS was VERY stiff compared to the M. Again, same roads, temps, minutes apart.

Handling: GTS is my preferred handler, not surprising. The M4 is still good, has wicked turn in for a front engined car. Great grip, playful, and sharp for the price point. But the GTS plays a different level. Immense grip from the 305 rears, so damn poised and balanced, nothing gets it unsettled or off its line when driven with passion. There’s more body roll in the M4 that I honestly didn’t even notice until driving the cars back to back. The GTS is even more keen to turn in.

Transmission: no contest really. PDK every good darn day. For every reason. Smooth and seamless when putting about, and incredibly sharp/snappy (without being jarring or upsetting the chassis) when driven aggressively. This was the same for my previous base 991.2 carrera as well. The auto in the M4c is certainly functional and better than most, but it can’t hold a candle to PDK.

Tech: M4 all the way. I missed the M4’s heads up display immediately when I drove the GTS. I like having that extra bit of info available and to avoid the distraction of looking downward. The wireless CarPlay in the M4 works so well and consistently. Never issues here. I will say that the Bose in the 911 is head and shoulders above the Hardon Kardon in the M4. BMW really needs to offer a Bowers and Wilkins option, given how inflated the price of the G8X generation has risen to. There are people that would pay $3-5k for a true top tier sound system, myself included. I’ve listened to Burmeister systems in 911s before and it’s incredible. Pricey, but worthwhile.

Chassis: for this, I’m referring to the structure of the car itself. The GTS (all newer 911s, really) is very stiff. Mind you, I’m not talking about ride quality, I’m talking about that built like a bank vault feel that I do look for when making purchases like this. The 911 just has this solid, put together feel that the M4 simply cannot replicate. In isolation, the M4 feels like a very button down car with a stiff chassis. However, driving them back to back and hopping back into the M4, the G82 honestly felt like a bit of a floaty boat. This was actually the most lasting impression of the comparison.

Practicality: of course, the M4 wins. But don’t count out the 911. I’ve taken the 911 to many Costco trips in the past and it always fit a surprising amount of items if you think a bit about how to properly load the car. But there’s no doubt the M4 will fit far more, and even has a real world use for the back seat for anyone 5’10” and under for short-moderate length trips.

Price: apples and oranges. Both of my G82s clocked it under $90k. For the money, I feel like it’s truly worth it. It has all the performance and tech one could ask for. The GTS I drove is now a 5 year old car and it’s still stickers for $130k with how insane the Porsche market has become. I purchased my previous 2017 911 in September of 2019 as an off-lease CPO car that was well optioned with only 14k miles for $85k. Those were the days. That SAME car with similar miles 4 years later is probably $90-95k. Insane.

Conclusion. I have all the respect in the world for the G8X. I’ve enjoyed my most recent M4C immensely, taken it on a few solid road trips, had tons of compliments and fun conversations, and enjoy my time with it. But if I’m honest, it was a holdover until 911 prices come back down to earth. There’s that solid bank vault feel and perfect chassis dynamics that is inescapable, especially if you’ve spent serious amount of time behind the wheel of one. Even the base Carrera FEELS like a much more expensive car, even if the performance numbers are even, if not in favor of the M4c.

This particular example I felt was still more money than I wanted to spend on a 5 year old car. But the test drive kicked me into gear to seek out the right situation and get myself back into another 911 as soon as possible.

Good writeup. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on all-around comfort versus only ride comfort, as overall interior space, seats, driving position, etc., all go into overall comfort.

Also, as a prior owner of a 991.2 (Carrera T), I will say that the BMW crushes a 991.2 in terms of practicality. Not just a win, but a massacre.

[Tyga11]

How reliable are new Porsche's? I assume very? Can you DD one?

[AYounglove10]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

How reliable are new Porsche's? I assume very? Can you DD one?

Great question. I put over 30k miles on the base carrera in just over 18 months. I replaced 2 sets of tires, 2 oil changed and 1 front lip (my fault).

I drive my cars as they’re meant to be driven, and it never made a peep. 911s are known to be very reliable powertrain-wise. Consumables and general maintenance is more expensive, but not anything appreciably more than my M cars.

I did not get it maintained by the local dealership. I have a great local German car mechanic that works regularly on all manner of Porsches, BMWs, Mercedes and Audis, and their service rates were reasonable. $180-200 for an oil change. Nothing terrible.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

How reliable are new Porsche's? I assume very? Can you DD one?

I had two 2020 911 S bought back in a row. 1st one PDK tranmission leaked and they could not fix or get me another transmission. Forced buy back.

My 2nd 911 S was bought back for decel clicking noise they could not figure out.

My friends with 21/22/23 992's had no issues.

My 17 991.2 was flawless.

My 19 991.2 GTS was flawless other than occasional FAL ghost code.

I left BMW for a 911 in 2017. I came back in 22 because I finally had enough of daily driving a 911. The 911 is the best drivers car in the world to me. It felt very special to me to daily drive. Because of that, I was often concerned about it much more than any other car. Getting in and out of a super low seat. Trying to get kids in the back seat. Or just having room inside of to take things home. Things like that got old real quick for me. I drove mine like any other car. I finally had enough and came back to a M3.

I now see why people buy them as garage queens. It makes sense to me now. Its the best drivers car period. But its not daily driver practical. You will be worried about wear and tear on it. Parking it. Leaving it. Cost of service. Lots of things like that where constantly in my mind. I hated leaving it parked anywhere buy my garage.

[Tyga11]

Originally Posted by AYounglove10

Great question. I put over 30k miles on the base carrera in just over 18 months. I replaced 2 sets of tires, 2 oil changed and 1 front lip (my fault).

I drive my cars as they’re meant to be driven, and it never made a peep. 911s are known to be very reliable powertrain-wise. Consumables and general maintenance is more expensive, but not anything appreciably more than my M cars.

I did not get it maintained by the local dealership. I have a great local German car mechanic that works regularly on all manner of Porsches, BMWs, Mercedes and Audis, and their service rates were reasonable. $180-200 for an oil change. Nothing terrible.

Good to hear brother! I think that's my next step up but I've always concerned they're a money pit...

[cubanbimmer3]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

Hmm.

I owned a 991.2 GTS before moving on to two 992 S's. The 991.2 GTS and the 992 S are very similar in power. I then went 992 S to G80 M3. Then G80 to G80x M3.

I seem to remember that all my 911's felt MUCH faster than any of my M cars. At least the RWD ones. Id be curious to see how a 991.2 GTS or 992 S does against an AWD M3/M4. But I think Porsche are faster all around period.

Originally Posted by AYounglove10

Interesting. I may have felt the exact same had I not driven the cars back to back. My G82 is bone stock and (for example) the on throttle roll in 3rd and 4th gear the clear winner was the M4. Again, not by miles, but there was a difference. My passenger felt the same.

After spending a day driving the 992 S and getting back into my G83, I felt the G83 was quicker, which surprised me. As much as I love the 911, I just can’t justify the 50K price difference. If only I had more money!!

[AYounglove10]

Originally Posted by MichaelB1969

Good writeup. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on all-around comfort versus only ride comfort, as overall interior space, seats, driving position, etc., all go into overall comfort.

Also, as a prior owner of a 991.2 (Carrera T), I will say that the BMW crushes a 991.2 in terms of practicality. Not just a win, but a massacre.

The M4 is altogether a more practical proposition. No doubt.

The all around comfort is close. I feel the seats with the 18-way adjustable sports seats with Porsche to be superior to the M4. Better lumbar support, and similar sized bolsters.

The overall driving position is also better with the 911. I’m not a tall guy at 5’8”, but I have a longer torso and shorter legs. For whatever reason, just my body size can’t get a 100% comfortable seating position in the M4 for longer trips. No issues with this in the Porsche.

[AYounglove10]

Originally Posted by cubanbimmer3

After spending a day driving the 992 S and getting back into my G83, I felt the G83 was quicker, which surprised me. As much as I love the 911, I just can’t justify the 50K price difference. If only I had more money!!

That is the conundrum. The price difference used to be A LOT more reasonable. I’m in the exact same boat here in 2023. VERY lucky to have had the chance to drive, much less own, any of these cars. But with the state of the world, I too feel like the extra $50k would be best put to use elsewhere.

When 992s fall down to the $100kish mark, I’ll be looking to make a switch. Who knows how long that’ll be.

[AYounglove10]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

Good to hear brother! I think that's my next step up but I've always concerned they're a money pit...

I really wouldn’t be too concerned. As with any used car, get a PPI and do some research on your intended year/make/model, set aside some $$ just in case or do what I did and get a CPO car. CPO is usually 2 years and unlimited miles (yes, you heard that right) extended warranty from Porsche directly.

My 911 was more reliable than just about any car I’ve owned.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by AYounglove10

The M4 is altogether a more practical proposition. No doubt.

The all around comfort is close. I feel the seats with the 18-way adjustable sports seats with Porsche to be superior to the M4. Better lumbar support, and similar sized bolsters.

The overall driving position is also better with the 911. I’m not a tall guy at 5’8”, but I have a longer torso and shorter legs. For whatever reason, just my body size can’t get a 100% comfortable seating position in the M4 for longer trips. No issues with this in the Porsche.

I have the same experience with the seats! I cant for the life of me adjust my M3 seats nearly as comfortable as Porsche 18 ways. Something about 18 ways just fits like a perfect glove to me too. I do miss those seats!

[Vic55]

As some or most know Ive had quite a few 911's including two GTS; currently with a 992 and prior was a 991.2. The rest are Turbo, Turbo S's, C4s, and a GT3.

OP your review really mirrors my factual ownership experiences as Ive also had two G80's and now have the X drive. Well articulated and applauded.

So because your post was so robust I dont have to opine basically at all The 911 damper and spring combo is amazing--- it keeps the power on the ground so efficiently while enduring the bumps and undulations. As I often drive the same roads with all my cars, I make mental notes about what I experienced and the P cars have always been the best with compression and rebound. And while the G8X has definitely narrowed the gap its not there yet or in regards to steering (still really great though). Again my ownership thoughts.

When I drive my Porsche I feel like Im IN the seat vs ON the seat with the M. Different driver's feel for sure and it definitely takes a good test drive to understand this or becoming an owner.

My 2018 GTS... albeit a vert:



And my current 992 GTS:



Oh Porsche just keeps hiking their new prices which will inflate the used market--- my base msrp was 136k (then went to 142) now its 151550 only 10 months later:

[AYounglove10]

Originally Posted by Vic55

As some or most know Ive had quite a few 911's including two GTS; currently with a 992 and prior was a 991.2. The rest are Turbo, Turbo S's, C4s, and a GT3.

OP your review really mirrors my factual ownership experiences as Ive also had two G80's and now have the X drive. Well articulated and applauded.

So because your post was so robust I dont have to opine basically at all The 911 damper and spring combo is amazing—- it keeps the power on the ground so efficiently while enduring the bumps and undulations. As I often drive the same roads with all my cars, I make mental notes about what I experienced and the P cars have always been the best with compression and rebound. And while the G8X has definitely narrowed the gap its not there yet or in regards to steering (still really great though). Again my ownership thoughts.

When I drive my Porsche I feel like Im on the seat vs on the seat with the M. Different driver's feel for sure and it definitely takes a good test drive to understand this or becoming an owner.

My 2018 GTS... albeit a vert:



And my current 992 GTS:



Oh Porsche just keeps hiking [...]

Thanks for the comment sir. I’ve been watching your posts awhile now and wow, what a wonderful fleet.

That pricing sheet really puts it into perspective. An earlier commenter mentioned that the market realized the 911s were underpriced, which I agree with, but just wow. Makes it challenging being an enthusiast.

Minus the upgraded tech, how do you feel the 992 GTS compares to your previous 991.2 driving-wise. 992 GTS would be my #1 pick, just too pricey at this point in my life (31).

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by AYounglove10

Thanks for the comment sir. I’ve been watching your posts awhile now and wow, what a wonderful fleet.

That pricing sheet really puts it into perspective. An earlier commenter mentioned that the market realized the 911s were underpriced, which I agree with, but just wow. Makes it challenging being an enthusiast.

Minus the upgraded tech, how do you feel the 992 GTS compares to your previous 991.2 driving-wise. 992 GTS would be my #1 pick, just too pricey at this point in my life (31).

Well you took the tech out and frankly the 991.2 without that factor is almost as brilliant as the 992. The 992 is just a bit faster of course but the rest of the car really is not incredibly material in change. Now I have tuned my car, modded the exhaust, and created a roaring beast but is it worlds better from a price point- NO.

Id easily re rock a 991.2 as long as the warranty was intact via cpo or aftermarket but in reality these cars are relatively bulletproof. My GTS now has the not needed but appreciated PDCC and it does have, to me, the needed RAS so its just like a slot car running the streets. Porsche FEEL

If you can grab the car at a good price now, get it because .2's are going up in value as Porsche continues to press up new 911 msrps.