[goj]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

what's with the arbitrary 500 hp demand ? " SHOULD BE"

Should be what? Why? because you want it? You will get get 465 and like it..

Wasn't it reported the m3 would be about 480 while x3m would get 465? Leaving competition model to hit 500?

Of course things could change the idea of a 500hp m3 has been out there

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by aajami

Have you driven a PDK-S car? As good as AT transmissions have gotten, they still don't compare to the best-in-class dual clutch transmissions.

No question. Although I believe the PDK-S is only available in GT cars. I loved it in my GT3, but I did long for a manual, so I sold it. Amazing transmission though.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Advevo

I have an F80 M3.

I have owned all M3 from the e30 till now.

All i can say that it is a nice sporty daily driver but the car has grown way to big! I have an m2 competition on order and as soon that car arrives the M3 goes and it wil def be my last M3!

It is a shame to use the name M3 for a car this size! The size of a 1m with 400hp and 1350kg should called an M3. Not a car which has the size of a boat!

You also must hope the zf8 will not come into more M Cars. It is a very boring gearbox and way to slow on downshifts. It gives no M feeling at All.

That is why the M2 may actually be my last M-Car.

I absolutely love the way the M-DCT shifts.

[Remonster]

I hope most of the power gain over S55 is in the 4,000+ RPM range with more of a rising power curve. I don’t need any more torque down low but more top end is never a bad thing.

Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY

please tell me one reason that anyone would prefer the dct over the 8 speed? neither has a clutch so the drive the same. I don't understand why people cry about this. also the 8 speed is more reliable.

I don’t prefer auto or DCT over one another but I can explain. A DCT, when set up in a specific way like Porsche does with their PDK, has a very direct and tactile feel. You pull the paddle and feel an insanely immediate and crisp shift both up and down the gears. While driving a car like that you get the feeling like there can’t possibly be a faster way to shift and it’s accompanied by a nice kick on full power upshifts and the whole experience is just very fun and exciting. Most automatics lack this. On the other end of the spectrum, VW’s DSG is WAY too smooth to be any fun to me even though it’s technically just as quick. An example of where spec sheets don’t tell the whole story.

Overall, I really like the latest ZF automatics because they are ultra fast and ‘tactile’ in a sort-of double clutch way but without the low speed clunkiness that most double clutch transmissions have. I haven’t driven the F90 yet but people I know who have tell me that it’s a step towards engagement like a good double clutch so I think it’s probably a really great all around transmission.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80

The floating rear caliber. WTF. Will they offer discounts for Brembo?

Those are from Brembo.

Originally Posted by aajami

Have you driven a PDK-S car? As good as AT transmissions have gotten, they still don't compare to the best-in-class dual clutch transmissions.

PDK-S is another animal. The standard 7DT PDK comes in 3 variants. Drive a base Macan, Cayman, or Boxster, and it's very disappointing in manual mode (300ms upshift/600ms downshift) - slower than any TC Automatic.

[BM dnobagaV]

BMW still recycling their previous-gen engines I see.

[10"]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Those are from Brembo.

PDK-S is another animal. The standard 7DT PDK comes in 3 variants. Drive a base Macan, Cayman, or Boxster, and it's very disappointing in manual mode (300ms upshift/600ms downshift) - slower than any TC Automatic.

Lol...even the lesser DCT transmissions are better than the best torque converted slushboxes. It's all mechanics in the end. Dual clutch transmissions will always be more satisfying and with better control than those crappy ZF boxes. The only reason ZF boxes are used so often now is COST. The end. If you're worried about milliseconds you're doing it wrong...it's about how it feels not the technicality of undetectable numbers. That's why manual gearboxes are the most satisfying and slowest...

[Ghostriderf80]

Time will tell what the car will come with. If it comes with a rear floating caliber, you need to factor in the 7K you will spend on an upgrade.
If the 8 spd auto is slow, well there is PDK which is probably where I will go.
Or just keep the one I have. It's funny how everyone speculates and none of us have actually driven the car.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Roundown

They're a compromise for CAFE.

The S65 was probably as good as it gets in an M3.

BMW M themselves stated that NA R&D had a long way to go and they were working on an S65 successor. That was before the wave of turbos.

I never enjoyed my S65. The S62 was more impressive and I think had a ton of potential. Worth noting the P65 in BMW racecars was actually S62 based.

[eeyang92]

Maybe no one but the engineers know, but is there some unspoken rule that the M3 need to get longer and longer every generation?

That being said, the rear wheel steering should cause the car to feel and behave as if it had a shorter wheelbase. Still, it would have been nice to have M2-like agility in sedan form.

[Law]

Originally Posted by stefan

I never enjoyed my S65. The S62 was more impressive and I think had a ton of potential. Worth noting the P65 in BMW racecars was actually S62 based.

This is largely incorrect.
There is a comprehensive thread (written by yours truly) dedicated to S65 based racing engines, including various P65 applications.

[kab_m2]

Originally Posted by BM dnobagaV

BMW still recycling their previous-gen engines I see.

Huh?

The engine will be an S58. That's new. In fact it's not even in production in any other car right now.

And it's based off of BMW's newest engine the B58

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Acura has a 10 speed now...

Honda has had it for a while. Look for this trans to be put it every Honda/Acura product.

Thank god, the ZF 9 speed and Honda 8 speed DCT are both turds.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

4 AT ; 5AT ; 6AT; SMG-1 ; SMG-2 ; SMG-3; Steptronic ; DCT; 8AT; ..... next up 10 AT?

DCT is just another version of automatic... each version of which loses out to the next one that is faster..

I beg to differ. You are showing three very distinct type of "automatic" transmission in your ptogression. Traditional planetary, automated single clutch and dual clutch; the main point they have in common is the absence of a clutch pedal, but each have very distinct mechanicals, characteristics and characters. And the "8AT" and "10AT" are not "faster" than a DCT, just cheaper for the manufacturer.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY

please tell me one reason that anyone would prefer the dct over the 8 speed? neither has a clutch so the drive the same. I don't understand why people cry about this. also the 8 speed is more reliable.

The 8AT has much more rotating mass inertia and drivetrain loss than a DCT making for a more sluggish drivetrain. A DCT is the better performance option. There is a reason why all high end hyper cars still run DCT.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jmg

Ahh I see. I believe the ZCP is the Competition Pack. Maybe I've been wrong this whole time?

Base
Competition (ZCP Option Code)
CS
CSL (Are they still making this?)

As a tidbit, ZCP is the option code for the Competition package in the USA and is not used worldwide. Different countries use different option codes for the Competition Package.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jmh600cbr

A source at bmw Canada already told me it will be 4 wheel drive only with active driving

Because a BMW Canada rep is for some reason a reliable source ?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by marcva

Not with 4 doors. The m3 used to be a competitor to the 911. The M3 "grew up" as Chris Harris puts it. Sounds like you could use a 5 series.

The M3 never was a direct competitor to the 911. However they were often compared as the M3 could near 911 performance with much more practicality for slightly less money.

Porsche have since significantly moved the 911 up market both in terms of performance and price. It isbecoming much more challenging to compare an M3/4 to a 911.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Advevo

I have an F80 M3.

I have owned all M3 from the e30 till now.

All i can say that it is a nice sporty daily driver but the car has grown way to big! I have an m2 competition on order and as soon that car arrives the M3 goes and it wil def be my last M3!

It is a shame to use the name M3 for a car this size! The size of a 1m with 400hp and 1350kg should called an M3. Not a car which has the size of a boat!

You also must hope the zf8 will not come into more M Cars. It is a very boring gearbox and way to slow on downshifts. It gives no M feeling at All.

Is it really?

The M3 is and has always been the ///M works version of the base 3-series car. Since the base 3-series keeps getting bigger, so does the M3. There is nothing wrong in the name in itslelf.

If a lighter more nimble car is more to your liking in terms of size and performance, there is nothing wrong with that either, but that mean an "M3" is no longer for you.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by eeyang92

Maybe no one but the engineers know, but is there some unspoken rule that the M3 need to get longer and longer every generation?

That being said, the rear wheel steering should cause the car to feel and behave as if it had a shorter wheelbase. Still, it would have been nice to have M2-like agility in sedan form.

It does not come from the Engineers, it comes from the Marketeers

Further, the only reason the M3 is getting bigger, is because the base 3-series is getting bigger. The M-division engineers can only start from what is handed over to them.

[vasi_M3]

Are we getting smaller front wheel gaps???

That should be the icing on the cake

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The 8AT has much more rotating mass inertia and drivetrain loss than a DCT making for a more sluggish drivetrain. A DCT is the better performance option. There is a reason why all high end hyper cars still run DCT.

+1

There is a reason McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche cars all use DCT. It is superior. No autobox fires up and down through gears like the PDK-S in a GT3 RS.