[BimmerMat135]

It's time for Bmw to come up with a manual drive train that can support the competition torque. If i recall this has been done with the F10 M5 6mt.

[tszene]

Originally Posted by phantom7835

It's too bad they're so insanely ugly, hopefully next generation or an LCI or even a reputable aftermarket option fixes that and we still get the manual. The weight is hard to ignore as well

I said all the same things until I drove one. And I took that car hone the same day. Best M3/4 I had to date. Certainly not the prettiest, no disagreements there. But it's the best to drive.
I had all from e36's on. Not even a question.

[phantom7835]

Originally Posted by tszene

I said all the same things until I drove one. And I took that car hone the same day. Best M3/4 I had to date. Certainly not the prettiest, no disagreements there. But it's the best to drive.
I had all from e36's on. Not even a question.

It does drive well, but I disagree that it hides its weight. Either way, if I park it and can't turn around to look at it, I can't buy it

[themnmd]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Even the driver could be the difference...not talking about skill per se, there's a 40kg difference between Richard Hammond and Jeremy Clarkson. Even that's worth a tenth... :-)

Or captain slow, a half second

[BDO]

Originally Posted by PhJ

Most BMW M fans have been waiting for the first driving reviews of the brand-new BMW M3 G80 and M4 G82 during very long long months before the end of the embargo. It was finally lifted about five months ago, on March 9 Th at 6 PM at which time a huge wave of videos on the BMW new stars have been released. And most of the reviews, if not all of them, have been full of praise.
*snipped rest*

Damn, what a good read. If someone passed this as an undergrad thesis, it wouldn't be out of place.

Thanks.

[LimiX4m40]

I dont understand why gearbox and clutch should not hold on the tuning specs? I thouth MT is still strong? :-)

[MKParris]

Originally Posted by LimiX4m40

I dont understand why the clutch should not hold on the tuning specs? I thouth MT is still strong? :-)

MT isnt rated for more than 406 lb ft iirc.

[LimiX4m40]

Originally Posted by MKParris

MT isnt rated for more than 406 lb ft iirc.

So that means if you tune it you should change the gb and clutch 🙈🙈☠️ bad news...

[stefan]

Originally Posted by BMWRacer523

^^ this. Can't believe Pobst did that instead of shifting manually. This video doesn't prove much one way or the other.

But I mean... he's testing and auto. How well it selects gears is part of the test.

[corbs09]

Originally Posted by MKParris

MT isnt rated for more than 406 lb ft iirc.

This isn't true, the previous gen F80 6mt was rated to 516 ft lbs and this is supposed to be the same box. In my opinion its the clutch that is the weak point. People are pushing plenty of power on f80 through the 6mt with upgraded clutches.

[MKParris]

Originally Posted by corbs09

This isn't true, the previous gen F80 6mt was rated to 516 ft lbs and this is supposed to be the same box. In my opinion its the clutch that is the weak point. People are pushing plenty of power on f80 through the 6mt with upgraded clutches.

Nope...I was off, but not by that much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_S6-53_transmission

442 lb fts rated.


I am not disputing that it can handle more, but BMW isn't going to do more than that.

[corbs09]

Originally Posted by MKParris

Nope...I was off, but not by that much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_S6-53_transmission

442 lb fts rated.


I am not disputing that it can handle more, but BMW isn't going to do more than that.

You are right, the 516ft/lb seems to be for the old DCT box. I still think it is a clutch limitation vs a trans limitation but time will tell!

[2PUTT]

[manni22gp]

Was this a thesis project?

[mlcgd21]

Originally Posted by PhJ

In the meantime, the Nürburgring lap time of the G82 Comp has just been released by Auto Sport and posted in Bimmerpost on August 5, 2021: 7 min 30,79 sec. This is an amazing lap time, confirming the excellent chassis of the new G8x and the engine capability of the Competition version. Special thanks to the excellent driver, Christian Gebhardt and to the optional PSC2 tires. It would be interesting to get the lap time with the standard PS4S tires.

The G82 Comp did 7:33,86 with PS4S vs 7:30,79 with Cup 2 on the Nürburgring. Same driver and day, by Auto Sport.

[mwh2009]

Can all us engineers in the forum just stop for a second and react to seeing calculus (or at least an integral) in the wild!?

I was an enginerd for 15 years, took something like 20 hrs of math in college, and until today could count the times I actually needed to use calculus on two hands.

Thanks to this guy, I now need to use my toes, too! A+ for effort! And also a topic that a lot of us think about. Many of us who have an Mcar are coming from a previous Mcar, and this question is always part of the 'calculus' of our decision - is it better/faster? If so, could I tell a difference empirically?

I appreciated the approach and the thoroughness of locating the data you were able to find/use. At the end of the day it was an entertaining read. And people that chime in only to tear down someone else's posts ought to get kicked off of here anyway.

Well done!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by MKParris

Nope...I was off, but not by that much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_S6-53_transmission

442 lb fts rated.


I am not disputing that it can handle more, but BMW isn't going to do more than that.

A beefed up version of the same 6MT was used on the F10 M5 and was rated at 500lb-ft.

[Jim B]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

It's time for Bmw to come up with a manual drive train that can support the competition torque. If i recall this has been done with the F10 M5 6mt.

BMW should go to the Tremec. It's available in the Dodge Challenger Hellcat and the Chevy Camaro ZL1, both with more HP and torque than the G82 M4 Competition. If it will stand up to those engines it should easily stand up the the S58 motor in Competition tune.

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

A very lengthy analysis with a flawed starting point, rendering it entirely useless. You cannot make such conclusions based on single data points. Using C&D as a reference, the G82 MT is quite faster in acceleration than the F82 MT. When the F82 crosses the 1/4 mile line, the G82 is awhopping ~21m/71ft ahead using those samples.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ested-review/#
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

Different test conditions can lead to rather big discrepancies in the results, this why it is flawed to draw definitive conclusions on a single sample. The correct way to compare empirical results is to average several test samples of each car and compare the averaged results of each car between them.

Further, you are underestmating the weight benefit of the CCB on the G82. It is more in the ~21kg range than the 13kg you quote.

Hello,
As author of this thread, please find below my reply to your comments :

• As explained in the original thread, there are very few detailed tests data available so far for the G82MT. Having to wait for one year or so to get potentially more test data and perform mean figures as you suggest would cause part of this analysis to be outdated at that time.
  
  
• The reference C/D limited test data you refer to actually confirm the outcome of the current analysis as F82 MT performs better than G82 MT on what C/D calls the 5-to-60 MPH rolling start and F82 MT severely beats G82 MT an all the top gear accelerations. As explained by C/D in https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ormancetesting , Top-gear acceleration, in a manual-transmission car, where we simply goose the throttle and don't downshift, highlights midrange power. The midrange power of the F82 MT outperforms the one of G82 MT and the higher top power of G82 MT is not enough to catch up with F82 MT in almost every acceleration test.
  
  
• Both acceleration figures for F82 MT and G82 MT used in the thread have been reported by the well established car magazine, Auto Motor und Sport, ensuring the high quality of the data as well as a common test procedure.
  
  
• The acceleration figures reported for G82 MT are optimum as the car was equipped with the expensive M Race track pack providing a weight savings of 25 kg. A G82 MT without this pack would surely deliver less favorable acceleration figures. This is reinforced by the special light weight wheels (included in the pack) with a lower inertia favoring faster accelerations.
  
  
• Nevertheless, the web site Zeperfs.com collects precisely what you are requesting for: they are computing a mean of measured acceleration data stored in a DB and this, for numerous car models. Zeperfs has two to three distinct sets of acceleration data for the G82 MT as well as for the F82 MT. On this site ,you can call for what they name a 'duel' (or head to head) between two cars (or more) and they display a side by side comparison table. Using this tool, you will find out that the comparison table of the mean acceleration figures confirm the superiority of the F82 MT over the G82 MT as shown below:
  
  https://zeperfs.com/en/duel4935-9167.htm
  
  
• Finally, I am not underestimating the weight benefit (13 kg) of CCB on G82. This is the weight benefit claimed by BMW in its video entitled "Brakes. M3 and M4 - explained, Episode 06" at 2 min 05 sec till 2 min 20 sec.
  
  https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...=1795493<br />

[tna3]

Originally Posted by 2PUTT

That was a very informative video. It all comes down to this. mpg testing is biased toward automatics, so manufacturers can "cheat". At the same time, it seems the testing assumes the worst of manual drivers. At the end of the day, don't forget that manufacturers are all profit driven organizations. They just don't want to spend $ on manual transmission R&D at the cusp of electrification.

[Sublime00]

I've said this before, but the base headlight DRLs undoubtedly look better than the hex DRLs.

I think they even help the grill and entire front end look "less in your face" and not quite so busy.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by phantom7835

It does drive well, but I disagree that it hides its weight. Either way, if I park it and can't turn around to look at it, I can't buy it

Good thing you don’t have to buy one. Why troll? I mean what a tool thing to do especially since it’s apparent now your opinion is the extreme minority opinion. It just makes you look juvenile.