[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by shoei

I do think it's fucking crazy the G8x is consistently over 100K. My F80 didn't come close to 100K. F9x, fine I get it. But not the M3/M4.

The base price of the G80 is the same on an inflation adjusted basis as the M3 has always been - about $70K in 2021 dollars. This is true back to the E46.

The press cars are all $100K MSRP because they are Competition models with carbon exterior, carbon bucket seats and ceramic brakes. I'm ordering a M3 manual sedan with reasonable equipment (metallic paint, 825M wheels, laserlights, executive package and parking package, etc.) and paying about $70K after dealer discount and factory rebates. It's not a $100K car for me.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

The base price of the G80 is the same on an inflation adjusted basis as the M3 has always been - about $70K in 2021 dollars. This is true back to the E46.

The press cars are all $100K MSRP because they are Competition models with carbon exterior, carbon bucket seats and ceramic brakes. I'm ordering a M3 manual sedan with reasonable equipment (metallic paint, 825M wheels, laserlights, executive package and parking package, etc.) and paying about $70K after dealer discount and factory rebates. It's not a $100K car for me.

Yes, but there is no question that the average transaction price for the G8X will be much higher than the F8X. Most of the cars sold will be AWD Competition models.

Congrats on the G80 order. Decided against a Cayman or planning on buying both?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by solstice

Would you know if this car is faster on PSC2s or did you never test it since it's developed with Corsas?

The Corsas are a bit stickier at lower temps and pair better with heavy rear bias front and mid engine AWD as long as they're not overworked. PSC2 takes a little more temp to reach optimum adhesive levels and can handle a slightly higher temp; they pair better with RWD to keep the tail in check.

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

Like I said it should have solidly set a 7:2X time.

Not grasping the difference between SA times and Manufacturer times are ya?

[speedmaster20d]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

The base price of the G80 is the same on an inflation adjusted basis as the M3 has always been - about $70K in 2021 dollars. This is true back to the E46.

The press cars are all $100K MSRP because they are Competition models with carbon exterior, carbon bucket seats and ceramic brakes. I'm ordering a M3 manual sedan with reasonable equipment (metallic paint, 825M wheels, laserlights, executive package and parking package, etc.) and paying about $70K after dealer discount and factory rebates. It's not a $100K car for me.

I agree actually configured similarly g80 is cheaper than f80. My f80 was 86K the g80 came to just under 85k and it has more equipment including full leather interior laser lights radar cruise with self driving tech wifi wireless charging and lots more.

The competition package was like 5-7K extra on the 2018 M3s if I remember correctly.

[MKParris]

Originally Posted by WWM3

Yes, but there is no question that the average transaction price for the G8X will be much higher than the F8X. Most of the cars sold will be AWD Competition models.

Congrats on the G80 order. Decided against a Cayman or planning on buying both?

My F80 DCT competition was $82K sticker. My G80 sticker (with carbon pack) is $82K sticker...

[IB M]

No doubt a big win here for BMW and G80 owners. The CS and CSL will only be faster and the G8x Comp pack AWD times are still tbd.

As far as all the car comparisons, in the end does anyone buy just on lap times??

I'm still lukewarm on the G80 overall, rather have a current M5, F80 or F87 M2C and the few seconds lap time doesn't matter. HOWEVER, bragging rights are bragging rights and the G80 is one fast and track capable machine and all the while it's still a great daily driver. Impressive results for BMW M, well done!!

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by speedmaster20d

I agree actually configured similarly g80 is cheaper than f80. My f80 was 86K the g80 came to just under 85k and it has more equipment including full leather interior laser lights radar cruise with self driving tech wifi wireless charging and lots more.

The competition package was like 5-7K extra on the 2018 M3s if I remember correctly.

I thought ZCP was $2,500. I could be wrong.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

My expectations aren't high. The general expectations of this forum are too low. BMW should have benchmarked the Alpha platform then exceeded its performance. Like I said before even the Giulia Quadrifoglio is only a 1.5 seconds off the G8X and the Quadrifoglio was a F8X competitor. BMW should be faster.

Even though I'm sure others have explained this before I just want to point out that manufacturers lap times and SA lap times should never be compared.

Manufacturers do lap after lap with their own driver and always gets a better lap time than what SA is able to do. SA generally get one or two warm up laps and then has to set the time, while leaving a safety margin to avoid crashing the press cars.

When the Giulia lap time was set was also before the official Nürburgring lap time policies was introduced. Which means there was no third party inspection to confirm that the car was in original spec.

Compare the two cars SA lap times at the Hockenheim GP track for a fairer comparison.

https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/91ols7ib1d8j

The M4 C did a 1:53.70 while the Alfa did a 1:57.10

So on a much shorter 4.574km track the M4 is a massive 3.10 sec faster! After 10 laps the M4 would be 31 secs clear of the Alfa…

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Even though I'm sure others have explained this before I just want to point out that manufacturers lap times and SA lap times should never be compared.

Manufacturers do lap after lap with their own driver and always gets a better lap time than what SA is able to do. SA generally get one or two warm up laps and then has to set the time, while leaving a safety margin to avoid crashing the press cars.

When the Giulia lap time was set was also before the official Nürburgring lap time policies was introduced. Which means there was no third party inspection to confirm that the car was in original spec.

Compare the two cars SA lap times at the Hockenheim GP track for a fairer comparison.

https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/91ols7ib1d8j

The M4 C did a 1:53.70 while the Alfa did a 1:57.10

So on a much shorter 4.574km track the M4 is a massive 3.10 sec faster! After 10 laps the M4 would be 31 secs clear of the Alfa…

Absolutely and as I mentioned earlier that SA could pretty much replicate BMWs factory time (one counter steer away ) is extremely unusual and signals a highly drivable and predictable car. The chassis engineering seems easily able to keep up with the 510hp. Impressive as hell.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by shoei

Sorry that's my bad. "Straight line speed OR performance on a track…..". Forgot the OR and it completely changed the context of the sentence lol.

I do think it's fucking crazy the G8x is consistently over 100K. My F80 didn't come close to 100K. F9x, fine I get it. But not the M3/M4.

But I do think the car is performing pretty impressively, regardless of your comparison to older cars. You're catering to two different markets. Camaros in any trim aren't exactly comfortable. Nor are the interiors very well done. Don't think it has autonomous driving or laser guided cruise control or even massaging seats, soft close doors, etc. Do I need these things? They're nice but not anything I actively search out in my vehicles. But there are plenty of folks who might be older, who have children, who have back problems, I don't know, whatever other litany of reasons they may have but all because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for somebody else. Not everyone purchases a car because they want it to be faster than a 6 year old ZL1. Not everyone who buys a ZL1 wants massaging seats or autonomous driving. You have to remember, these cars aren't designed for us, car enthusiasts. We make up a sliver of car sales for any manufacturer. They do it for the masses, not for the car nuts like us.

The F8X and G8X are within 10k of each other comparably equipped. A G8X isn't $100k unless you check every option box. In fact, my Individual Nardo Gray F82 was $80k (…before any discount off MSRP); the G8X I built WITH carbon fiber buckets was around $86k.

[superbrew]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Even though I'm sure others have explained this before I just want to point out that manufacturers lap times and SA lap times should never be compared.

Manufacturers do lap after lap with their own driver and always gets a better lap time than what SA is able to do. SA generally get one or two warm up laps and then has to set the time, while leaving a safety margin to avoid crashing the press cars.

When the Giulia lap time was set was also before the official Nürburgring lap time policies was introduced. Which means there was no third party inspection to confirm that the car was in original spec.

Compare the two cars SA lap times at the Hockenheim GP track for a fairer comparison.

https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/91ols7ib1d8j

The M4 C did a 1:53.70 while the Alfa did a 1:57.10

So on a much shorter 4.574km track the M4 is a massive 3.10 sec faster! After 10 laps the M4 would be 31 secs clear of the Alfa…

That's assuming the Alfa could make it ten laps....

[Traind]

Originally Posted by MSpain

I thought all cars were compared with same tyre and same weather conditions, for an "official" ranking.
IMHO any further comparison is quite useless then.

That would be quite a feat! To somehow line up weather and manufacturers giving you cars plus tires that are not available as oem. But you are getting to an important point with these comparisons... unless they are done on the same day, in the same time window, by the same driver then we are not making an exact, scientific comparison of lap times. Tures play a big role too but I personally don't mind too much.... run the car with the fastest tire the manufacturer offers and that's good enough for me.

The comparisons are not useless but most people don't know how to look at the data. Weather is a huge variable in lap times and that doesn't mean just damp or rainy conditions. Track state is also a huge factor in lap times. Did it just rain hard for two days? Well, the track will be greener and slower for a talented driver for sure. And then there is the track itself which may be quicker due to changes or resurfacing from year to year. All these things play a huge role in comparing times but we rarely have any data for any of these variables when looking at a multi-year list of times.

So let's take your original question about the M8 vs M4 times from Sport Auto and "how can the M8 be slower?" My answer would not have been advances in tires in just a few years, although that could be a factor. My answer would be... they set the same time at the Nordschliefe. I know the M4c was a bit over a second faster when on Cup 2s and about a second slower when on PS4S... but those small margins are essentially meaningless when you compare cars lapping such a long track on different days and different years. If we understand the variables we have to acknowledge that the two cars, at the ring at least, are essentially equally fast. The gap is too small to say anything else unless they were tested on the same day, in the same 2 hour window, by the same driver. At the ring the "equivalent" gap is a bigger time window, probably 2-4 seconds at least; on a smaller track the equivalency gap would be smaller.

Btw, one car no one is referencing is the 812 Superfast. It was only 3 seconds faster at the ring than the new M4. Of course that V12 engine note is worth 20 seconds in perceived speed, at least, lol.

[will0621]

Originally Posted by solstice

A qualified guess it’s the main reason BMW now offer PSC2 as an M3/4 factory tire option…it qualify the PSC2 for use at these tests. I guess the M8 is not seen as a track day car and ring times aren’t a major marketing tool for the M8 segment and they re probably right, more of a GT than track day car.

Didn’t the gt63s get a time of 7:27 with PSC2s despite weighing 400-500lbs more than a m5/m8? I would think the latter 2 cars should be able to match or exceed the gt63s given that weight difference and almost the same hp.

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by Clemenza

The below info has been taken out of the just released September 2021 edition of the Sport Auto magazine:
With PS4S, the M4 Competition achieved a Nürburgring lap time in 7 min 33 sec 86 , another amazing performance !
PhJ

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by PhJ

The below info has been taken out of the just released September 2021 edition of the Sport Auto magazine:
With PS4S, the M4 Competition achieved a Nürburgring lap time in 7 min 33 sec 86 , another amazing performance !
PhJ

This was posted a couple of weeks ago. See below, with some additional context from the driver.

Originally Posted by manuelf

Oh man. It is fascinating, how so many guys can discuss the supertest result over 6 pages ... where obviously no one has read the test!

At least all the vague tire guessing UHP vs semi and the wrong guessing around lead me to this opinion!

Fact is: In this supertest, Christian Gebhardt drove the G82 with both tire specifications: PSC2 and PS4S!

So here are the times he did with the PS4S:

Nordschleife: 7.33,86
Hockenheimring: 1.54,3

His clear verdict:
"At Hockenheim as well as at Nordschleife the PS4S is only marginally slower. The performance gain mainly comes from improvement of the entire vehicle and not the option tires."

Additionally he states:
"Grip level on 1st half of Nordchleife of both tires is almost the same. While the PSC2 remains constant, the PS4S grip weakens slightly in the 2nd half"

Hope this info helps you for discussion another 6 pages