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      11-26-2020, 12:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by JB M4 View Post
Didn't a 100k buy you a 996 turbo many moons ago
Sure it did but many moons ago $100k USD was not worth what $100k today is. 996 Turbo launched in 1997, $100,000 in 1997 is equal to $162,235 in 2020.

The G80 price vs. inflation has been discussed and, long story short, this car costs exactly the same as F80 and E90 and E46 when you consider the value of a US Dollar today vs. the years when those cars were sold.
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      11-27-2020, 04:09 AM   #24
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I built it and deleted it, 3 grand down and its 1 grand plus a month for a lease outta my budget will keep paying on my very low mileage f80 till Its time to part with it.

If you under contract, then you just gotta ride it out; BMW doesn't give any leniency on their lease terms..

However, $1,000 a month for a new M4 is reasonable.. With like a 12k miles a year allowance..

At that price, I would be indifferent to the beaver-faced grille and all..

Say another $200 a month for insurance and I have the keys to a new M car..

Where do I sign up..
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      11-27-2020, 06:57 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Sure it did but many moons ago $100k USD was not worth what $100k today is. 996 Turbo launched in 1997, $100,000 in 1997 is equal to $162,235 in 2020.

The G80 price vs. inflation has been discussed and, long story short, this car costs exactly the same as F80 and E90 and E46 when you consider the value of a US Dollar today vs. the years when those cars were sold.
The big manufacturers already admitted that with the latest technologies robotics automation and efficiency that it's much cheaper to produce cars now than then...So inflation is just a few guys sitting round a table saying how much profit do we need out of this car and typing it into a computer...
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      11-27-2020, 10:32 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
If you under contract, then you just gotta ride it out; BMW doesn't give any leniency on their lease terms..

However, $1,000 a month for a new M4 is reasonable.. With like a 12k miles a year allowance..
No it's not. That's almost $40K for a 3 year lease. Might as well buy it.
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      11-27-2020, 11:48 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
If you under contract, then you just gotta ride it out; BMW doesn't give any leniency on their lease terms..

However, $1,000 a month for a new M4 is reasonable.. With like a 12k miles a year allowance..
No it's not. That's almost $40K for a 3 year lease. Might as well buy it.
It's actually it's about 36k but if you want to spend roughly 80k to purchase it outright, then more power to you.
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      11-27-2020, 04:04 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
It's actually it's about 36k but if you want to spend roughly 80k to purchase it outright, then more power to you.
$36K is actually almost $40K as initially stated.

Feel feee to blow $40K on a lease. It's your money.
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      11-27-2020, 04:21 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
$36K is actually almost $40K as initially stated.

Feel feee to blow $40K on a lease. It's your money.
It's going to depreciate around "40k" or so anyways, within three years, especially after the LCI starts dropping.

So regardless of leasing or financing, that's roughy what it's going to cost you for the keys, during that duration.

Leasing with a decent rent cost is merely just another way of paying for the price of admission and at least you don't have to worry about getting rid of it in the end.

You can simple walk away and start anew; some pragmatic folks would never put a price tag on that simple connivence.
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      11-27-2020, 09:18 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
$36K is actually almost $40K as initially stated.

Feel feee to blow $40K on a lease. It's your money.
It's going to depreciate around "40k" or so anyways, within three years, especially after the LCI starts dropping.

So regardless of leasing or financing, that's roughy what it's going to cost you for the keys, during that duration.

Leasing with a decent rent cost is merely just another way of paying for the price of admission and at least you don't have to worry about getting rid of it in the end.

You can simple walk away and start anew; some pragmatic folks would never put a price tag on that simple connivence.
If you think an $80K M3 is going to be $40K in 3 years you must be really new to this.
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      11-27-2020, 11:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
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Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
$36K is actually almost $40K as initially stated.

Feel feee to blow $40K on a lease. It's your money.
It's going to depreciate around "40k" or so anyways, within three years, especially after the LCI starts dropping.

So regardless of leasing or financing, that's roughy what it's going to cost you for the keys, during that duration.

Leasing with a decent rent cost is merely just another way of paying for the price of admission and at least you don't have to worry about getting rid of it in the end.

You can simple walk away and start anew; some pragmatic folks would never put a price tag on that simple connivence.
If you think an $80K M3 is going to be $40K in 3 years you must be really new to this.
I actually said it would depreciate about to about 36k, give or take, so leasing is just another avenue of obtaining one, with little stings attached.

You're the one throwing down the "40k" number, hence the quotation..

I'm not going to argue semantics with you, my point was simple if I could obtain with a fully-loaded M4, for a $1,000 month, out the door, without having to worry about future depreciation, that's a decent price, in my humble opinion but if you found a better way, then I'm happy for you

A three year old M4, roughly 36k for three years of depreciation:
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      11-28-2020, 07:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
$36K is actually almost $40K as initially stated.

Feel feee to blow $40K on a lease. It's your money.
It's going to depreciate around "40k" or so anyways, within three years, especially after the LCI starts dropping.

So regardless of leasing or financing, that's roughy what it's going to cost you for the keys, during that duration.

Leasing with a decent rent cost is merely just another way of paying for the price of admission and at least you don't have to worry about getting rid of it in the end.

You can simple walk away and start anew; some pragmatic folks would never put a price tag on that simple connivence.
If you think an $80K M3 is going to be $40K in 3 years you must be really new to this.
I actually said it would depreciate about to about 36k, give or take, so leasing is just another avenue of obtaining one, with little stings attached.

You're the one throwing down the "40k" number, hence the quotation..

I'm not going to argue semantics with you, my point was simple if I could obtain with a fully-loaded M4, for a $1,000 month, out the door, without having to worry about future depreciation, that's a decent price, in my humble opinion but if you found a better way, then I'm happy for you

A three year old M4, roughly 36k for three years of depreciation:
What you posted is a 5-year depreciation amount, not 3. I'm not trying to argue either. Wanted to simply point out it'd be a better financial investment to purchase an M3 and sell it 3 years down the line. M3s hold value very well. I have saved on average about $5-$10K by buying vs leasing.

An ED M3 back in 2011 I was paying $770 a month, bought it with $0, drove it for 3 years, sold for $45K, owed $39k on it.

Just something to think about to help you save some hard earned cash.
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      11-28-2020, 08:38 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
It's actually it's about 36k but if you want to spend roughly 80k to purchase it outright, then more power to you.
$36K is actually almost $40K as initially stated.

Feel feee to blow $40K on a lease. It's your money.
Imho, if your lease price over the term is about half the car value then I would buy. Besides I put too many miles on a year for a lease.
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      11-28-2020, 10:55 AM   #34
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The M3/M4 is one of those exceptions to the lease vs buy comparison in that typically, it's cheaper to buy an M3/M4 and sell it after 3 years than it would be to lease it.

If we compare the M3 for example:

A 3 year old M3 on the used market, with ~30-36k miles on it will typically go for between $50-$55k if it's in good condition, and depending on MSRP. (Keep in mind a 2017 M3 had a starting MSRP of ~$65k) If BMW is currently setting residuals on the M3 at 55% for 10k miles/yr, you're basically saying an $80k M3 is going to be worth $44k, so quite the discrepancy between BMW's residual and what they are going for on the used market.

All this being said, this is probably the most controversial design for an M3/M4 that BMW has unveiled, so I'm not sure how that will effect values on the used car market, especially if an LCI ditches the crazy grill. So with purchasing the car, you do assume that risk.

I'm generally in favor of leasing, but I will admit there are exceptions to where it just makes more sense to buy and sell after 3 years.

You could also lease, then buy out the lease if the value is significantly higher than what your residual is set at if you're trying to hedge against that risk of ownership.
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      11-28-2020, 11:17 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB M4 View Post
The big manufacturers already admitted that with the latest technologies robotics automation and efficiency that it's much cheaper to produce cars now than then...So inflation is just a few guys sitting round a table saying how much profit do we need out of this car and typing it into a computer...
You're talking about operational and manufacturing efficiency. The cost of materials certainly hasn't become cheaper. They're subject to the economic laws of inflation as well, and that manifests into the cost of the cars. It's not so much that it's "cheaper" to produce cars, they're just more efficient at producing them - so indirectly the manufacturing cost attributed to 1 unit is technically lower, provided you pump out enough volume, but that doesn't mean the car itself is cheaper.

You also have to consider all the technology being packed into cars today that wasn't there 15+ years ago. There's a cost associated with that as well.
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      11-28-2020, 11:48 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB M4 View Post
The big manufacturers already admitted that with the latest technologies robotics automation and efficiency that it's much cheaper to produce cars now than then...So inflation is just a few guys sitting round a table saying how much profit do we need out of this car and typing it into a computer...
You're talking about operational and manufacturing efficiency. The cost of materials certainly hasn't become cheaper. They're subject to the economic laws of inflation as well, and that manifests into the cost of the cars. It's not so much that it's "cheaper" to produce cars, they're just more efficient at producing them - so indirectly the manufacturing cost attributed to 1 unit is technically lower, provided you pump out enough volume, but that doesn't mean the car itself is cheaper.

You also have to consider all the technology being packed into cars today that wasn't there 15+ years ago. There's a cost associated with that as well.
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      11-28-2020, 12:36 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by JB M4 View Post
Are you secretly Stefan Quandt ?
I'm Mitt Romney.... surprise mf!
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      11-28-2020, 06:52 PM   #38
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Are you secretly Stefan Quandt ?
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      11-29-2020, 07:34 PM   #39
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A pre-owned 992 911 is $100-$110k.

You can get a new M3 around $70-80K after discounts and incentives.

That's a $30-40K difference.
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      11-29-2020, 07:45 PM   #40
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A pre-owned 992 911 is $100-$110k.

You can get a new M3 around $70-80K after discounts and incentives.

That's a $30-40K difference.
Ouch $10 per mile driven for the 1st owner.
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      11-29-2020, 09:00 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
A pre-owned 992 911 is $100-$110k.

You can get a new M3 around $70-80K after discounts and incentives.

That's a $30-40K difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
A pre-owned 992 911 is $100-$110k.

You can get a new M3 around $70-80K after discounts and incentives.

That's a $30-40K difference.

I prefer the 991 or even the 997 to the 992. Plus, that car has only 1,200 miles on it...
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      12-02-2020, 06:35 AM   #42
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I don't believe the M3/4 are in the same price category as the 911. You would need to fully option out an M3/4 to get into a base no options 911 Carrera territory. Move up the ladder into S or 4S with options and the gap widens fast. Porsche clearly went up market with the 911 both in terms of performance and price. The M3/4 now compete more or less with the Cayman in terms of price and performance, albeit not in the same market segment.
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      12-02-2020, 06:44 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Sure it did but many moons ago $100k USD was not worth what $100k today is. 996 Turbo launched in 1997, $100,000 in 1997 is equal to $162,235 in 2020.

The G80 price vs. inflation has been discussed and, long story short, this car costs exactly the same as F80 and E90 and E46 when you consider the value of a US Dollar today vs. the years when those cars were sold.
For us in Canada, it's not quite the same story. We've been pretty lucky in the sense that the M3/4 have been almost immune to inflation between the E46, E9X and F8X, so when considering inflation, their price actually went down. The base MSRP for my E46 in 2001 was 73k CAD, 72K for my E92 in 2008 and 74k for my F82 in 2014.

With the G82, they significantly upped to base price to 85k. Optioning an M4 to my liking (not even fully loaded) hikes the price above 110k CAD, which is more than what I paid for my M4cs . I guess times are catching up.
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      12-02-2020, 07:39 AM   #44
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Sure, I see what you're saying. But I would way rather a lightly used 991 (dont love the 992 at all) over a brand new M3.
That's interesting, I find the 992 drives so much better than the 991. The EPS is also much improved, almost feels like a hydraulic steering in terms of tactility and feedback.
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