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      01-24-2015, 08:01 AM   #23
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You guys are complaining about manuals? You need to start worrying about the steering wheel!
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      01-24-2015, 08:11 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
And BMW manuals have never even been very tactile until now. Just when they are getting good they will stop them, pity but that's where everyone is headed. No manual Ferrari, GT3 or Lambo on sale today for example. The majority of sports car buyers shop on performance and looks not "feel" or engaging driving. Even an M3 is so fast today that the performnce penalty of an MT is significant. Personally I just want a car that feels fast and is fun to drive, that I connect with heart, soul and body. The MT still does that a bit better than the DCT. Always will I guess. An always that might only last another decade. Sob.
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Lol Sol, you and i will end up in kiss soon!
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Yikes, I'll rather drive a DCT... ( I hope you spelled right and meant the band Kiss )
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Lol autocorrect worked its magic! Kia, yes.
Ok, nominating this for early front runner for typo/autocorrect of the year...

As for the substantive point, the article is right that at some point the MT will go, but that is likely when all transmissions are auto because there is an electric engine (see Tesla, ibid)

Will M3 dump it earlier? I doubt it. Still relatively strong take up in North America - at least to justify it being carried into next model (assuming all internal combustion engine)

If it is gone, I would still look at next M.....but it does remove a significant barrier I have to going AMG/C63. It certainly makes that more of an option......
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      01-24-2015, 08:52 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
Only 7% of people order manual transmission on their F8x in Europe. So I will not be surprised if the next generation M3/M4 will have manual transmission for the US/Canadian market only.
I'd read that manual was only an option THIS time around because of the American market. Which is funny because UK has been staunchly manual for a long time and believe it or not USA automatics were a running joke for a long time amongst many Brits. The tide has turned
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      01-24-2015, 09:06 AM   #26
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It's unfortunate but the reality is that over time it will be impossible to buy MT cars. It might be 15 years before we see it but I predict it is coming. It eventually won't be an option because it will be cost prohibitive to provide the option for a smaller and smaller demand. MB has already gone that way. Ferrari and Lambo. Porsche is moving that way. BMW will also follow at some point.

My prediction is there is a MT in the next gen M3/4 and then it's done. But it will be done for most all new cars so it won't be like you will have the option of just jumping ship to Audi or Porsche. Everyone will be in the same boat.
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      01-24-2015, 09:07 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
Ok, nominating this for early front runner for typo/autocorrect of the year...

As for the substantive point, the article is right that at some point the MT will go, but that is likely when all transmissions are auto because there is an electric engine (see Tesla, ibid)

Will M3 dump it earlier? I doubt it. Still relatively strong take up in North America - at least to justify it being carried into next model (assuming all internal combustion engine)

If it is gone, I would still look at next M.....but it does remove a significant barrier I have to going AMG/C63. It certainly makes that more of an option......
I admit that was not my phones finest moment

It would be funny if BMW ditched manuals altogether. I would have a complete meltdown next time around while shopping again.
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      01-24-2015, 09:25 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by crypticc View Post
I'd read that manual was only an option THIS time around because of the American market. Which is funny because UK has been staunchly manual for a long time and believe it or not USA automatics were a running joke for a long time amongst many Brits. The tide has turned
Well, it is actually more the irony than anything.

Among 'normal' drivers/driving, the MT usage rate in Europe is much higher than in the USA. But over there, manuals are common in entry level cars, etc.

In the USA, most cars aren't offered as a manual. Entry level, etc, are all autos.

SO on this side of the world, the MT is a niche/enthusiast's feature (for us 'real drivers'...at least that is what we tell ourselves )

Over there it is much more 'yeah, sure, MT, I could buy a cheap Opel or Renault if I wanted that, a serious driver has the latest/greatest dual clutch gizmo...'

So in the end, we have more manuals where offered in high end cars, but nowhere else. You have more everywhere else, but fewer in high end cars.
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      01-24-2015, 09:35 AM   #29
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I'm pretty sure next M3/M4 will have manual.
This looks like a false rumor
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      01-24-2015, 09:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
I'm pretty sure next M3/M4 will have manual.
This looks like a false rumor
Makes more sense, if they do anything re the manual tranny offering, to offer MTs in the even number series 2,4,6 and go with autos in the 3,5 & 7. But in any event MTs are harder to find nowadays and it's only going to get worse.
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      01-24-2015, 09:58 AM   #31
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It's sad to me that the automotive industry is losing the manual war even though I did not get my M4 with 6mt. Even Chevy caved in and gave the Z06 DCT. If the new Ford Mustang comes with an optional DCT you know it's really over. hahahaaaa I heard last year when a customer ordered a Lambo with manual Lambo called the dealer/customer a few times to make sure it wasn't a mistake.
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      01-24-2015, 10:08 AM   #32
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Please say this is not so! I was recently told by some people with Audi of America that they are working towards phasing MT out of entire product line by 2018-2020. This was huge deal breaker for me on the RS5 and I have swore that brand off for good now.

I realize that DCT is fun, efficient, fast blah etc. blah...I just prefer to whole driving experience of MT and will always prefer rowing and 3 pedals. Please DO NOT take this away from us.

With that said, I am going to now start a campaign like Chik fil a and the cows that say "eat more chiken" and figure out a way to have the cows say "buy more manuals"
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      01-24-2015, 11:23 AM   #33
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I loved the 6MT in my M235i a beautiful experience to drive BUT in the UK it's my opinion that we get screwed here with the conversion to RHD. It's very badly done. I'm a die hard 8th BMW car fan but it's not done well sadly, the pedal offset is very very bad. I drive 20-25k a year and it's actually painful after a while in an RHD manual.

Food for thought firthe UK market. You LHD guys very lucky.
6MT a second car option for me I think now probably, at least in the smaller 235i.
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      01-24-2015, 11:35 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0-100 real quick View Post
It's sad to me that the automotive industry is losing the manual war even though I did not get my M4 with 6mt. Even Chevy caved in and gave the Z06 DCT. If the new Ford Mustang comes with an optional DCT you know it's really over. hahahaaaa I heard last year when a customer ordered a Lambo with manual Lambo called the dealer/customer a few times to make sure it wasn't a mistake.
You can't really blame the car industry... it's the consumer. The new generation of car owners are not like the last and don't care as much about a MT. If there was enough demand then they would build it. That isn't to say there are still people who want a MT car but the numbers are dying.

Not sure how someone ordered a Lambo with a MT... I didn't think it was an option on new cars?
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      01-24-2015, 11:40 AM   #35
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Hard to answer, as the problem hasn't arisen yet. We have a lot of other cars, so we are not tied to the 4 door concept, but it's handy to have. I absolutely get it that manuals are going away. I'll tie a knot on the end of the rope and hold on as long as possible.

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That sounds good and all ... but what do you replace a german high performance, manual transmission sedan with? What are your alternatives?.
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      01-24-2015, 11:42 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I suspect BMW will be one of the last ones to not offer a manual in these types of cars. If they do stop offering them you can be pretty sure that there will very few if any other options from other brands.

I understand that you guys love your manuals, but I don't understand dismissing the current M3/4 if they didn't have one. This car is about so much more than just the gearbox.
Dude we are stubborn old men! We don't learn how to drive without using both legs.

To me the manual was the selling point, only thing I truly wanted in the car.
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      01-24-2015, 11:59 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I suspect BMW will be one of the last ones to not offer a manual in these types of cars.
I'd say that's a pretty good guess...

Benz AMG: Auto only
Audi RS5: Auto only
Lexus ISF: Auto only
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      01-24-2015, 12:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Dude we are stubborn old men! We don't learn how to drive without using both legs.

To me the manual was the selling point, only thing I truly wanted in the car.
I don't begrudge anybody for liking what they like. I'm stubborn on a lot of things too.

It is easy to say if they don't offer X, I'm not buying X brand anymore. I truly wonder what all of the people saying that if there wasn't a manual option and everything was auto would really do.

Not trying to be a fanboy or whatever, but I looked at a lot of cars before committing to the M3. Some did a couple of things better, but I still think this was the overall best package for my needs, wants and taste.

Luckily for you MT folks, I really don't think you are going to have to worry about it it for quite a while in BMW land at least. There is a poster running around saying the sky is falling with this stuff and that the M2 isn't going to have an MT option. Then low and behold the test mule is an MT.
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      01-24-2015, 12:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cctm4me View Post
Please say this is not so! I was recently told by some people with Audi of America that they are working towards phasing MT out of entire product line by 2018-2020. This was huge deal breaker for me on the RS5 and I have swore that brand off for good now.

I realize that DCT is fun, efficient, fast blah etc. blah...I just prefer to whole driving experience of MT and will always prefer rowing and 3 pedals. Please DO NOT take this away from us.

With that said, I am going to now start a campaign like Chik fil a and the cows that say "eat more chiken" and figure out a way to have the cows say "buy more manuals"
Audi sucks anyway and everybody knows they are just a rebadged VW.
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      01-24-2015, 12:39 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
Also, not sure why folks are comparing BMW's to Ferrari and Lamborghini.
Since the reason of retiring the MT is the same. The performance of the DCT coupled with the power of today's super cars makes DCT the only logic choice in the eyes of the manufacturer. The biggest shock and guidance was when the GT3 went DCT only. It was hailed as one of the purest drivers cars outside the Lotus Exige type of cars, now it's all about performance.

And While M3s do not compete with these cars they are for some of us not the ultimate dream cars, they are substitutes for cars we can't drive due to restrictions from needs or financials. I'm pretty sure BMW is aware of this market and want to provide a similar experience in a cheaper package. And if the role models have DCTs, well you see the "problem".
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      01-24-2015, 01:11 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Dude we are stubborn old men! We don't learn how to drive without using both legs.

To me the manual was the selling point, only thing I truly wanted in the car.

Same, here, the manual makes it special...DCTs are are dime a dozen nothing special. That's why I rule out Lexus even though they are high value and more reliable long term. No manual...no sale. Once BMW drops them, I doubt I would want to spend so much money for a BMW when there are other automatic choices out there from Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, etc

There is so little that sets a BMW apart from the rest nowadays that once they drop manual, they will just blend in for me.

They are already following the pack with door window controls, fake sound, forced ipad displays, video game lighting, turbos, electric steering and so on.

We all know that BMW won't care though because there are very few of us that feel that strongly so it won't matter. Yes the manual is dead and anyone that likes a manual should get one while they can because the future is automatic only.
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      01-24-2015, 01:17 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by 0-100 real quick View Post
It's sad to me that the automotive industry is losing the manual war even though I did not get my M4 with 6mt. Even Chevy caved in and gave the Z06 DCT. If the new Ford Mustang comes with an optional DCT you know it's really over. hahahaaaa I heard last year when a customer ordered a Lambo with manual Lambo called the dealer/customer a few times to make sure it wasn't a mistake.
Well, see that is the point. You did not get the 6MT in your M4 so that is one more "vote" against the MT in BMW's mind. Only 1 out of 3 people on this forum (real enthusiasts) getting the 6MT sends a big message to BMW.
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      01-24-2015, 01:27 PM   #43
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Same, here, the manual makes it special...DCTs are are dime a dozen nothing special. That's why I rule out Lexus even though they are high value and more reliable long term. No manual...no sale. Once BMW drops them, I doubt I would want to spend so much money for a BMW when there are other automatic choices out there from Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, etc

There is so little that sets a BMW apart from the rest nowadays that once they drop manual, they will just blend in for me.

They are already following the pack with door window controls, fake sound, forced ipad displays, video game lighting, turbos, electric steering and so on.

We all know that BMW won't care though because there are very few of us that feel that strongly so it won't matter. Yes the manual is dead and anyone that likes a manual should get one while they can because the future is automatic only.
This where I disagree. Auto vs auto there still are differences between the cars.

Audi doesn't sell the RS4 here so there is no direct 4 door competitor to the M3 if you want/need a four door. They sell the RS5 and a lot of you MT people get just as worked up about AWD being a no no.

Lexus is heavy and unlike others I'm really not a fan of their interior or infotainment controls. Not to mention the polarizing exterior styling.

It seems MB with the AMG C63 for me would be the closest car that could get me away from BMW. Even though I'm not enamored with its looks (mostly rear end) and its cockpit is less ergonomically driver orientated compared to BMW's IMO.

Last edited by minn19; 01-24-2015 at 01:36 PM..
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      01-24-2015, 01:30 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0-100 real quick View Post
It's sad to me that the automotive industry is losing the manual war even though I did not get my M4 with 6mt. Even Chevy caved in and gave the Z06 DCT. If the new Ford Mustang comes with an optional DCT you know it's really over. hahahaaaa I heard last year when a customer ordered a Lambo with manual Lambo called the dealer/customer a few times to make sure it wasn't a mistake.
Well, see that is the point. You did not get the 6MT in your M4 so that is one more "vote" against the MT in BMW's mind. Only 1 out of 3 people on this forum (real enthusiasts) getting the 6MT sends a big message to BMW.
Why would only people that buy a 6mt be considered "real enthusiasts"? Even Europe doesn't want manuals anymore and it is in fact North America that holds out for sticks more than anyone. Perhaps our definitons of real enthusiast differ, others may call that enthusiast a hold out against technology...
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