[PVC]

X4M is hideous too, but it's an amazing driving machine. BMW should fire all their designers for being so bold and making such an ugly M3 that almost everyone seems to hate.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by PVC

X4M is hideous too, but it's an amazing driving machine. BMW should fire all their designers for being so bold and making such an ugly M3 that almost everyone seems to hate.

The waitlists at dealers and it going for over MSRP would say different.

[m630]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

The waitlists at dealers and it going for over MSRP would say different.

No correlation whatsoever as to whether it will ultimately be a sales success or not, as its already a design fail.

These are low volume cars to begin with and there are always the handful of peps, some enthusaists and many poseurs that just need to say they have it first. Only a fool or someone that doesnt earn the $$ themselves would spend 1 penny over msrp for an M3/4 as that is just throwing money away..... this isnt a porsche GT car

If a year from now its still the case that you cant get one, then we’ll know, but we can near guarantee these will be discounted after the initial buzz just like every other car before it.

[zamboni]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

BMW has an out...they can always blame sales on covid. They would never admit the pig nose was the wrong move.

I will say the same 2021 4-series continue to sit on my cities two BMW dealer lots, while other inventory is moving. I suspect some very good lease deals are coming and a lot of 4-series turned into loaners.

My opinion BMW decided to use their most iconic car(M3) to introduce the pig nose grill design. Shock everyone now, rather than during the introduction of their up coming EV lineup. They basically whored out the M3. They needed the design to be mainstream before EV launch.

My dealers had 16 4 series on the lot and I have not seen one on the road yet.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by m630

No correlation whatsoever as to whether it will ultimately be a sales success or not, as its already a design fail.

These are low volume cars to begin with and there are always the handful of peps, some enthusaists and many poseurs that just need to say they have it first. Only a fool or someone that doesnt earn the $$ themselves would spend 1 penny over msrp for an M3/4 as that is just throwing money away..... this isnt a porsche GT car

If a year from now its still the case that you cant get one, then we'll know, but we can near guarantee these will be discounted after the initial buzz just like every other car before it.

You talk so matter of fact about something so subjective; the car is a design success, there, see, I can say things too.

How is a huge waitlist and multiple dealers selling over msrp not an indicator? You're talking out your ass because you don't like some design elements and want to feel validated. We'll know if it's a success based on sales figures that are greater than the F8X, which wasn't released during a pandemic and economic downturn. If you don't like the car that's fine, see you later, take care, hope you enjoy whatever you go for.

[m630]

I need not argue, you have your opinion as I have mine and you kno nothing of me or my intentions around this vehicle but lets leave that aside.

Ofcourse once the commentary degrades the argument has already been lost.

Clearly you begin with a false premise while providing an excuse all in the same post.

Time will tell what is real or perceived.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by m630

I need not argue, you have your opinion as I have mine and you kno nothing of me or my intentions around this vehicle but lets leave that aside.

Ofcourse once the commentary degrades the argument has already been lost.

Clearly you begin with a false premise while providing an excuse all in the same post.

Time will tell what is real or perceived.

Clearly you talk out your ass and believe yourself holier than thou. I'm guessing you're a fedora fan?

"Once the commentary degrades the argument has already been lost." Do you actually talk this in real life? I've had dinner with lords and earls that spoke less pretentiously than you do; sounds incredibly forced.

Anyway, One has grown tired of this conversation *tips hat* good day sir.

[EXE46]

People need to relax, for every BMW M car out there you can find poseurs or non enthusiast. Furthermore, this isn't inherent to BMW, I would wager Porsche that y'all salivate over endlessly have far more poseurs than BMW simply because it's more a status symbol than a lowly Bimmer.

The looks of this M3/M4 does not somehow validate that it will be a sales failure or if it turns out a success then it's because of poseurs. Those arguments are pure rubbish. For every iteration of the iconic M3, there has always been a subset of former owners who were disgruntled with the new iteration of the car they own. This was true even for the legendary E46 M3.

[Dr.Deep]

Originally Posted by EXE46

People need to relax, for every BMW M car out there you can find poseurs or non enthusiast. Furthermore, this isn't inherent to BMW, I would wager Porsche that y'all salivate over endlessly have far more poseurs than BMW simply because it's more a status symbol than a lowly Bimmer.

The looks of this M3/M4 does not somehow validate that it will be a sales failure or if it turns out a success then it's because of poseurs. Those arguments are pure rubbish. For every iteration of the iconic M3, there has always been a subset of former owners who were disgruntled with the new iteration of the car they own. This was true even for the legendary E46 M3.

This!

It's in the nature of a lot of people if something comes out that is a „newer" version of the thing they own to search for every soooo little detail to talk it bad ans satisfy themself...

I remember the forum when M2C came out

I remember the forum when the M2CS was released...

And what is the main thinking now of those cars?

[Ratcher]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

The waitlists at dealers and it going for over MSRP would say different.

The US market is indeed an important market. However, in Europe dealers are making 20-30% discount.

[PVC]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

You talk so matter of fact about something so subjective; the car is a design success, there, see, I can say things too.

How is a huge waitlist and multiple dealers selling over msrp not an indicator? You're talking out your ass because you don't like some design elements and want to feel validated. We'll know if it's a success based on sales figures that are greater than the F8X, which wasn't released during a pandemic and economic downturn. If you don't like the car that's fine, see you later, take care, hope you enjoy whatever you go for.

I hate the grill, but I'm almost certain that I will buy it anyway. I'm sure it will be a great, reliable car, with great performance... the point is that too many people, at least on this forum hate the look of a car that we are all passionate about.

Also, the demand is high and the prices are over MSRP because there is zero supply. We can pick up this conversation in about a year.

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

The US market is indeed an important market. However, in Europe dealers are making 20-30% discount.

yes but they give us in the first place a 70% price increase compared to US sooooo....we still pay more.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by Dr.Deep

This!

It's in the nature of a lot of people if something comes out that is a „newer" version of the thing they own to search for every soooo little detail to talk it bad ans satisfy themself...

This is so true... There's always a group of people who feel threatened or jealous of the newest thing. They're the ones who get mad when a company releases an update and, for some reason, they feel like the car or the computer or cellphone, or whatever they bought somehow became obsolete overnight as soon as a newer one comes out.

There's a thread in the F8x forum titled something like "how many of you slept well after the G8x was revealed." It's like they were wishing that G8x looked bad or didn't have good specs so they could feel as if their F8x were still relevant cars.

I never understood that. If I get a new car, or new TV or whatever, and something better is released, that's a good thing! Means I have new shit that I can look forward to upgrade to. Also, it doesn't mean my current car all of a sudden stopped working overnight. It just smacks of jealousy and pettiness.

Now there are those who truly do not like the G8x styling and that's fine. I tend to think many of those are the ones who lack imagination and are more resistant to change... because you know many of them will eventually come around to accept and actually like the styling. It just takes them months or a couple of years until they're used to it.

Same thing happened w/ the gigantic Audi shield grilles... and the Lexus predator face grilles, etc. People don't hate on those Lexus grilles anymore b/c they've become acustomed to it.

[pcai]

Not saying the design is better than the F8X because the F8X (especially LCI and CS) is a stunning car, but NGL the G8X design kinda grows on you. Especially in BG or one of them frozen greys or that frozen portimao.

[Flamingi]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

The US market is indeed an important market. However, in Europe dealers are making 20-30% discount.

Can't compare the discounts from Germany and the US. In the US (BMW in general, not G80 specific) the final price is MSRP or just a few percent discount whereas in Germany 20%+ (on the F36 you can get 37% right now) discount is normal even on newly released models. You were able to preorder a G20/21 with 18% discount in Germany before it even launched, and the G20 is a sales success.

Also 20-30% discount on a G80 is a bit of a stretch, the most I saw until now was 14% on a factory order and 19% for a short term registered car (Vorführwagen/Kurzzeitzulassung). (FYI for the US readers: there are no stock cars in continental Europe, new cars are all build to order)

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by PVC

I hate the grill, but I'm almost certain that I will buy it anyway. I'm sure it will be a great, reliable car, with great performance... the point is that too many people, at least on this forum hate the look of a car that we are all passionate about.

Also, the demand is high and the prices are over MSRP because there is zero supply. We can pick up this conversation in about a year.

I do have to laugh about pointing to a waitlist as a success indicator. Given the fact there is no way to walk into an dealer, put down money and drive off with a G8x, if there wasn't a waitlist that would be a disaster!

In case my original intent in starting this thread is not clear - here it is -> I don't like much of the new design direction of the G8x (grill, size and weight mainly). But I don't think that means BMW won't be successful with it as the grill will attract the 20% they are after, and the new customers for this car just don't care about growth in weight and size. BMW wins and I'm still happy as they made me a F87 CS to drive.

[zamboni]

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

yes but they give us in the first place a 70% price increase compared to US sooooo....we still pay more.

U.S had the lowest prices on most M models compared to other countries.

[zamboni]

Originally Posted by Flamingi

Can't compare the discounts from Germany and the US. In the US (BMW in general, not G80 specific) the final price is MSRP or just a few percent discount whereas in Germany 20%+ (on the F36 you can get 37% right now) discount is normal even on newly released models. You were able to preorder a G20/21 with 18% discount in Germany before it even launched, and the G20 is a sales success.

Also 20-30% discount on a G80 is a bit of a stretch, the most I saw until now was 14% on a factory order and 19% for a short term registered car (Vorführwagen/Kurzzeitzulassung). (FYI for the US readers: there are no stock cars in continental Europe, new cars are all build to order)

Is that true BMW employees get 12% of MSRP on most new purchase? If that is the case public deal is much better at 14%.

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by zamboni

Is that true BMW employees get 12% of MSRP on most new purchase? If that is the case public deal is much better at 14%.

na they get a lot more.

I know someone who worked (retired a couple of months ago) who had 30% on MSRP in Switzerland.

[OSee]

Originally Posted by zamboni

My dealers had 16 4 series on the lot and I have not seen one on the road yet.

I'm in Southern California, Orange County specifically where you usually see more 3s and 4s than Corolla's and Civics.

In the time since it's release I've seen 1 new 4 series on the road. That's it.

But with that being said a 430i buyer and a M4 buyer are looking for completely different things and mind as well be shopping in completely different universes.

[Manualboi]

Appeal to authority: the thread.

Guess BMW also knew better than haters when they made the unreliable N62 and N63 engines huh?

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Manualboi

Appeal to authority: the thread.

Guess BMW also knew better than haters when they made the unreliable N62 and N63 engines huh?

Originally Posted by Manualboi

Appeal to authority: the thread.

Guess BMW also knew better than haters when they made the unreliable N62 and N63 engines huh?

The N64 and N65 were pretty good comebacks. I recall a few world engine of the year awards were had. Let's see if they can respond here as well. They have the record and the fans (aka repeat customers) that believe in them.