[themnmd]

Originally Posted by yes2pfs

Attachment 2785849

Here's a picture

Yes I would say that looks pretty nice 👍🏻

[nearwater4me]

Threads like this makes me wonder why BMW couldn’t just offer a CF roof WITH moonroof.
It’s not like the option is an engineering challenge.
I understand the point of CF roof to reduce weight up top but if the moonroof take rate is this high, I’d think of a way to satisfy both parties.
CF roof was a very easy choice for me since I don’t use sunroof/moonroof at all, but I see other owners’ point for wanting one.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Brpnw17

It absolutely does not kill resale. What kills resale is wild interior/exterior combos. A moonroof will not add nor deter from any resale value. Almost 30% of folks are ordering theirs with moonroofs as we’ve seen in polls on this forum. Obviously there’s a decent size market out there.

Totally agree on the wild color combos. People think rare means valuable….not if it’s ugly.

Fair point on moonroof resale….but we agree that you’re narrowing your potential buyer pool by 66% (seems low to be honest….I’d expect a 10% MR take rate at best but I’ll assume you’re numbers are right)…. That’s a better way to say it. No one will pass on a CF roof (very few anyway) but most will pass on a moonroof. Will it hurt value? Maybe not, but most won’t even look at it no matter the price.

And resale matters if not leasing.

[Brpnw17]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Totally agree on the wild color combos. People think rare means valuable….not if it’s ugly.

Fair point on moonroof resale….but we agree that you’re narrowing your potential buyer pool by 66% (seems low to be honest….I’d expect a 10% MR take rate at best but I’ll assume you’re numbers are right)…. That’s a better way to say it. No one will pass on a CF roof (very few anyway) but most will pass on a moonroof. Will it hurt value? Maybe not, but most won’t even look at it no matter the price.

And resale matters if not leasing.

Most people will be trading their car in and id love to see 2 identical cars but each with either roof option and see the difference. I’d be surprised if there was any at all or more then a couple hundred dollars. As for private party, there will be buyers out there at the same price, but it might take you just a little bit longer to find that right person.

I also wouldn’t say most would pass on a moonroof, especially if the market is limited. For example, I wouldn’t buy an m3 without a moonroof, so I’d wait until I found one and then there are some that would just want something in the right area/etc and maybe have time constraints so are open to more. so I’d say it would be closer to 50% that would be open to the moonroof on the second hand market. Just my 2 cents though!

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

No one will pass on a CF roof (very few anyway) but most will pass on a moonroof

I'm willing to wager that no potential used car buyer will turn down an M3/4 simply because it came with a moonroof - most would actually consider this an advantage.

A carbon fiber top has no tangible benefits other than to swoon a bunch of dudes at the local Cars & Coffee sausage party. No one outside of this demographic honestly cares either way, so it's really not a dealbreaker, like say the transmission choice or even the bucket seats..

I'm sure BMW crunched the numbers before they decided to offer a moonroof option and realized that there is indeed a healthy market for it. That to me is reflective of its future resale prospects.

[m.dreamin]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I'm willing to wager that no potential used car buyer will turn down an M3/4 simply because it came with a moonroof - most would actually consider this an advantage.

A carbon fiber top has no tangible benefits other than to swoon a bunch of dudes at the local Cars & Coffee sausage party. No one outside of this demographic honestly cares either way, so it's really not a dealbreaker, like say the transmission choice or even the bucket seats..

I'm sure BMW crunched the numbers before they decided to offer a moonroof option and realized that there is indeed a healthy market for it. That to me is reflective of its future resale prospects.

^^ All of this.

In my 5 years of owning an F82 and now 6 months of a G82, whether at Cars and Coffee, big box retailer parking lots where someone stops me to talk about the car, the BMW dealership itself, or even my recent track day at Laguna Seca (!) where 90% of the cars were ///M cars, quite literally zero people have remarked on my roof choice. The general public have general comments about exterior/interior, while more of the car buffs will remark on the carbon ceramic brakes. The only people I've heard nay-saying the moonroof are on this forum.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I'm willing to wager that no potential used car buyer will turn down an M3/4 simply because it came with a moonroof - most would actually consider this an advantage.

A carbon fiber top has no tangible benefits other than to swoon a bunch of dudes at the local Cars & Coffee sausage party. No one outside of this demographic honestly cares either way, so it's really not a dealbreaker, like say the transmission choice or even the bucket seats..

I'm sure BMW crunched the numbers before they decided to offer a moonroof option and realized that there is indeed a healthy market for it. That to me is reflective of its future resale prospects.

I don't know a single person who has a used e92, f80, or f82 with a moon roof. So people are definitely avoiding it on the used market.

My guess is most used moon roof cars get sold to people not looking for an m3, but just happen to stumble over one in their price range when doing general used car shopping.

[LuckyBrand]

I think it's unique and would always option the carbon roof on an M car. Where I live people don't see stuff like this as much and think it's pretty cool.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by nearwater4me

Threads like this makes me wonder why BMW couldn’t just offer a CF roof WITH moonroof.
It’s not like the option is an engineering challenge.

Probably because it's not worth the engineering/development costs. And the weight savings over a sunroof with a steel or aluminum roof (I'm not even sure) would almost surely be negligible since it would be such a small surface area (5 pounds?).

[astroricardo]

I had a tough time deciding. I wound up choosing the CF because I hardly have ever used the moon/sun roof when I've had it.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by akkando

I don't know a single person who has a used e92, f80, or f82 with a moon roof. So people are definitely avoiding it on the used market.

My guess is most used moon roof cars get sold to people not looking for an m3, but just happen to stumble over one in their price range when doing general used car shopping.

No one "stumbles" on an M3 when you can get a pretty-ass and capable 335i for like 40% cheaper, if the price or BMW brand name is all that one is looking for. It's a conscious decision a buyer makes, whatever their reasons might be but a moonroof is not going to be a driving factor, they'll just take it or leave it, based on what's on the lot.

Hell, these cars even come in a convertible form, for those that want the ultimate moonroof and couldn't care less about weight.

These are not some F1 vehicles, with potential buyers who are attempting to shave .0000001% off their lap time; they are daily driven vehicle for folks who purchase them and come here to ask silly questions like; "Does my M3/4 make me look fat?" Or "Will my M3/4 carbon fiber seats bring all the boys to the yard." i.e. mostly pretentious buyers who wants one because of the badge on the back or all the shiny carbon fiber parts they can option.

The steel moonroof to carbon fiber top weight difference is negligible and outside of the forums, no one cares either way. BMW knows this but still offer a shiny carbon fiber top, not because of its supposed performance advantage but simply for aesthetics. Anyone who believes otherwise is practicing self-deception.


.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by Poochie

These are not some F1 vehicles, with potential buyers who are attempting to shave .0000001% off their lap time; they are daily driven vehicle for folks who purchase them and come here to ask silly questions like; "Does my M3/4 make me look fat?" Or "Will my M3/4 carbon fiber seats bring all the boys to the yard." i.e. mostly pretentious buyers who wants one because of the badge on the back or all the shiny carbon fiber parts they can option.

Fair points, but just FYI that the 3.3lb difference in that screenshot is misleading since it's comparing the CF roof to a solid steel roof (no sunroof). With the sunroof, it's actually a 50lb difference.

Is anyone likely to feel that difference? Probably not (unless you're Randy Pobst wringing it out on Laguna Seca), but just knowing that it's lighter -- and lowering the CoG -- can be one of those intangible benefits that impart confidence (and/or insufferable hubris) to owners.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

Fair points, but just FYI that the 3.3lb difference in that screenshot is misleading since it's comparing the CF roof to a solid steel roof (no sunroof). With the sunroof, it's actually a 50lb difference.

Is anyone likely to feel that difference? Probably not (unless you're Randy Pobst wringing it out on Laguna Seca), but just knowing that it's lighter -- and lowering the CoG -- can be one of those intangible benefits that impart confidence (and/or insufferable hubris) to owners.

Yea, I know right, who's data can we trust; BMW or BMW..


One is an official technical training manual and the other is marketing page that is prone to errors ( https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=21269968 )

I'll let that speak for itself..

[androidtopp]

I ordered the moonroof on my previous car not for the moonroof, but because the overhead console/controls were a better layout, looked nicer, etc as compared to a car without the moonroof. I keep the shade closed at all times and have opened the glass...a couple times at most? Probably more to convince myself it opened, more than anything else? And, as others here have mentioned concern with, my moonroof shade rattles, I'm just in the habit now of tugging the cover closed a little extra at the start of each drive to make sure it hasn't wiggled open on me. Plus cuts down on headroom - my M is definitely "shorter" than the Focus, but has way more headroom because the roof is nice and thin. So yeah, all that plus boy racer CF, and there's no moonroof on my M.

But that's all the most personal of personal preference reasons. So...if you're gonna use it, get it! Or if headroom isn't an issue (or even if it is, maybe it's not a big issue), get it! Car is too expensive not to get it the way you want.

[MTM3]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I'm willing to wager that no potential used car buyer will turn down an M3/4 simply because it came with a moonroof - most would actually consider this an advantage.

A carbon fiber top has no tangible benefits other than to swoon a bunch of dudes at the local Cars & Coffee sausage party. No one outside of this demographic honestly cares either way, so it's really not a dealbreaker, like say the transmission choice or even the bucket seats..

I'm sure BMW crunched the numbers before they decided to offer a moonroof option and realized that there is indeed a healthy market for it. That to me is reflective of its future resale prospects.

Well then no one outside of that said sausage party should be buying M3
Get a X3M

[Gfit]

I give you all credit for having the energy to debate this for the 100th time.

[m.dreamin]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

Fair points, but just FYI that the 3.3lb difference in that screenshot is misleading since it's comparing the CF roof to a solid steel roof (no sunroof). With the sunroof, it's actually a 50lb difference.

Is anyone likely to feel that difference? Probably not (unless you're Randy Pobst wringing it out on Laguna Seca), but just knowing that it's lighter -- and lowering the CoG -- can be one of those intangible benefits that impart confidence (and/or insufferable hubris) to owners.

Having done my first track day ever weeks ago at Laguna Seca (thanks again to Sunwise Auto Group!), those lighter M cars didn't seem to have an edge against my heavier moonroof + xDrive M4. When I finally left Beginner group (5 sessions) and moved to Intermediate late in the afternoon, I was waived on to pass lots of M3/4/5's, many of which were modified. The driver that gave me the best run for my money, for whom I ultimately waived on to pass, had been running his GTR in Intermediate class the entire day. I was proud when he approached me after the session and said that despite passing me, I was still behind him so closely to make him push harder.

None of this is to say I'm Mr Kickass track day driver, because I'm not. I bring this up to point out that on a track day reserved for Sunwise Auto Group, for which the 50-60 cars were 90% (+/-) M cars, many of which were modded, it was remarkable how much a relative n00b like me could advance further and further.

To be sure, a lot of this speaks to the new G8x platform. My F82 never inspired the kind of confidence I now have with the new machine, and xDrive was huge in allowing me to pull hard out of corners like I never would have before. So to me, the relevance to this thread (and forum at large) is that the theoretical weight gains/losses and COG gains/losses due to xDrive and moonroofs just don't seem to hold much water even despite the fact that most everyone was an M car driver. Of course, take me as a sample size of 1.

[ram9cc]

Originally Posted by cashsmoney

Hi, what's everyone's opinion on getting the Moonroof vs CF roof? I'm not taking mine to the track or anything so the lower center of gravity and the weight savings really wouldn't help me as I'm not taking it to the track. It's just going to be daily. However had moonroofs on most of my cars in the past and honestly maybe I open it once a year.

Non option for me due to my torso length! If i was short i would be happy for light

[stevebmw3018]

Originally Posted by cashsmoney

Hi, what's everyone's opinion on getting the Moonroof vs CF roof? I'm not taking mine to the track or anything so the lower center of gravity and the weight savings really wouldn't help me as I'm not taking it to the track. It's just going to be daily. However had moonroofs on most of my cars in the past and honestly maybe I open it once a year.

I'm 6'2 and I can remember when I had my 335 b4 they became the 340's and I went over this hilly area and the car got a little airborn and I bounced in the seat & my head hit the roof 😜. I had a sunroof in that car. I've sat in one of the new m240's at the dealer and put the seat all the way down and I have like an inch and some change … maybe ….from the roof inside. Def a little less headroom with the glass..I was debating the same thing , but decided on the carbon fiber for more headroom . Plus I've never tracked a car and I might want to one day and heard the helmet might be an issue. 🤷🏾*♂️ just my 2 cents.

[IcebergM4]

I ordered the moonroof on my G82 for a couple reasons. Firstly, my car is BSM and I wanted the roof to match. I really do NOT like the contrast of the CF roof on black cars. Secondly, I ALWAYS use my moonroof here in south FL

[Fireball1]

Originally Posted by jwt2440

You keep the moonroof open in the Arizona sun???

This time of year - absolutely! In the middle of the summer - not so much.

[Professor///M]

The ONLY reason why I ordered the moon roof in my F80 was because the CF roof came without the base support roof mounts.

Now that the G80 has the roof mounts with the CF roof, I think it's great. Rarely if ever use the moon roof - and actually in my G30 550 the moon roof gets stuck on a piece of sound dampening panel in the roof - which looks like it would be a pain to fix.

It's a personal choice, but I think the car just simply looks special with the CF roof