[dantm3]

Originally Posted by joeynolegs

Really? So BMW FS is not the cheapest?

Is that sarcasm? Haha.. it's a competitive market.. and the ease of bmwfs means they have a leg up on credit unions since you can buy and finance on the spot.. shop around

[E_R_S_M4_Comp]

So, on a whim I checked out KBB and wanted to see what kind of cash offer I would get for my 2018 M3 Base, 16k miles, like new condition. I had 5 months left on my lease and the payoff was $51,400. KBB came back with $60k cash offer. My local dealer immediately called me and asked if I wanted to trade in early and order the M4 (like I planned to do, just waiting until February to order it for ~May delivery). So I get them to give me $60,500 for the M3 and spec'ed out the M4 I wanted:

2022 M4 Comp Coupe xDrive
Portimao Blue
Parking Assistance Package
Executive Package
M Shadowline Lights
Front Ventilated Seats
Icon Lights
Wireless Charging

MSRP (with delivery) came out to be $85,095

Now, I'm second in line for an allocation. Which is fine with me, I can go 6+ months using my wife or kids cars. So here is the deal numbers:

Market Value Selling Price- $85,095
Trade Allowance-$60,500
Trade Difference- $24, 595
Doc Fee- 698.50
Tax- $334.71
Non-Tax Fees- $941.50
Net Price- $26,569.71
Trade Payoff- $51,400
Balance- $77,970.57

I'm going to go with a 36 month lease.
With $3k down @10k miles: $1,024
With $4k down @10k miles: $994
with $5k down @ 10k miles: $963

So, I put down a $2k deposit.

I don't understand how they got to those lease numbers (and at that point, the tension in the room was THICK) but I was amenable to them. Does the $2k I put down go toward the "Cash Down"? So, I would need to put down another grand to make my 10k mile lease payment $1,024?

Where did the $9100 difference go with my trade-in of the M3? Even with that $9,100 I still need to put $3k down to get $1,024?

Regardless, I wanted to take advantage of the positive equity and get inline for an allocation. I'm also thinking of adding the M Carbon Fiber package based on all I have read and I like the look better.

Can you guys (without shi^ting on me) help me understand this?

Appreciate the help.

Here is the link to my trade in, if you're interested...
https://www.centurybmwhuntsville.com...f9490a2af4.htm

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by E_R_S_M4_Comp

So, on a whim I checked out KBB and wanted to see what kind of cash offer I would get for my 2018 M3 Base, 16k miles, like new condition. I had 5 months left on my lease and the payoff was $51,400. KBB came back with $60k cash offer. My local dealer immediately called me and asked if I wanted to trade in early and order the M4 (like I planned to do, just waiting until February to order it for ~May delivery). So I get them to give me $60,500 for the M3 and spec'ed out the M4 I wanted:

2022 M4 Comp Coupe xDrive
Portimao Blue
Parking Assistance Package
Executive Package
M Shadowline Lights
Front Ventilated Seats
Icon Lights
Wireless Charging

MSRP (with delivery) came out to be $85,095

Now, I'm second in line for an allocation. Which is fine with me, I can go 6+ months using my wife or kids cars. So here is the deal numbers:

Market Value Selling Price- $85,095
Trade Allowance-$60,500
Trade Difference- $24, 595
Doc Fee- 698.50
Tax- $334.71
Non-Tax Fees- $941.50
Net Price- $26,569.71
Trade Payoff- $51,400
Balance- $77,970.57

I'm going to go with a 36 month lease.
With $3k down @10k miles: $1,024
With $4k down @10k miles: $994
with $5k down @ 10k miles: $963

So, I put down a $2k deposit.

I don't understand how they got to those lease numbers (and at that point, the tension in the room was THICK) but I was amenable to them. Does the $2k I put down go toward the "Cash Down"? So, I would need to put down another grand to make my 10k mile lease payment $1,024?

Where did the $9100 difference go with my trade-in of the M3? Even with that $9,100 I still need to put $3k down to get $1,024?

Regardless, I wanted to take advantage of the positive equity and get inline for an allocation. I'm also thinking of adding the M Carbon Fiber package based on all I have read and I like the look better.

Can you guys (without shi^ting on me) help me understand this?

Appreciate the help.

Here is the link to my trade in, if you're interested...
https://www.centurybmwhuntsville.com...f9490a2af4.htm

Sorry, (tension was THICK because you don't know what you are doing) you WILL be raked over the coals unless you put time in and learn how a lease is negotiated and calculated. Spend some time googling, go to leasehackr and learn how to calculate, etc. PS, they have your car already?! You better educate yourself fast! Or hire somebody/friend who knows how to lease and calculate one to help you...

PSS, they are taking your equity and putting into the lease already AND asking you for more to get to those payments...they also are probably maxing out your MF...all rookie mistakes.

Basically get your check for equity put nothing down on the lease and pay MSRP with base MF...that is a good deal these days. Go to Edmunds lease forum and get RV and MF for your model. Calculate your own payment here, https://leasehackr.com/calculator

If you don't understand all this you are much better off financing or paying cash. These days those two are better options anyway due to crappy RVs and high MFs.

Lastly, it was just pure dumb luck and a function of crazy times but returning a lease under mileage by 4K/miles a year is generally not smart unless initially planning to buy out as you know you are paying for 10K miles a year and only using 6K when returning, dealers love this! It sounds like you take care of your cars and put low miles on so usually makes more sense to buy instead of lease.

[E_R_S_M4_Comp]

Appreciate the feedback. COVID caused me to never drive the car. Lease was up in 5 months and I knew I was going to be ordering in February anyway. They didn't upcharge me from MSRP (which seems to be a good deal from others I've read about). Appreciate the feedback and links.

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by E_R_S_M4_Comp

Appreciate the feedback. COVID caused me to never drive the car. Lease was up in 5 months and I knew I was going to be ordering in February anyway. They didn't upcharge me from MSRP (which seems to be a good deal from others I've read about). Appreciate the feedback and links.

Well, you actually don't know that they aren't marking up over MSRP until you can verify all lease numbers and calcs...because I played with calc and got numbers lower than yours with no additional down so they are nailing you elsewhere too.

[E_R_S_M4_Comp]

Well, if you guys could help me figure out where, I would appreciate it. I realize it was a rookie mistake; that's why I'm asking for help. I can always call the owner and get a check for the difference between my trade and payoff and renegotiate (which I just did). I figure that check should be $9,100 and given that I have put down $2k on an allocation that retains my place in line (or opens up opportunities for other dealers who may get an allocation sooner).

Right?

[vj123]

Originally Posted by E_R_S_M4_Comp

Well, if you guys could help me figure out where, I would appreciate it. I realize it was a rookie mistake; that's why I'm asking for help. I can always call the owner and get a check for the difference between my trade and payoff and renegotiate (which I just did). I figure that check should be $9,100 and given that I have put down $2k on an allocation that retains my place in line (or opens up opportunities for other dealers who may get an allocation sooner).

Right?

In states like MI, sales tax credit is capped. Unless you have a huge sales tax credit, its better to have them as two separate transactions. Most dealers do not provide the lease break down to the customer unless they ask for it. Adding a trade in to this transaction complicated the transaction (unless you have the complete breakdown) and gives the upper hand to the dealer.

There were reports that people traded in their vehicle and the dealer was not able to get an allocation. Are you going to trade in your vehicle now and wait for an allocation? if so, there are a lot of moving parts in the deal. With current shortages, people are taking delivery 6 months after they have an allocation. I highly doubt if you can take delivery in May without an allocation.

[SHARMAATL]

Originally Posted by E_R_S_M4_Comp

Well, if you guys could help me figure out where, I would appreciate it. I realize it was a rookie mistake; that's why I'm asking for help. I can always call the owner and get a check for the difference between my trade and payoff and renegotiate (which I just did). I figure that check should be $9,100 and given that I have put down $2k on an allocation that retains my place in line (or opens up opportunities for other dealers who may get an allocation sooner).

Right?

Honestly, the first thing you need to do is ask them to take the trade completely out of it. Take that just as a check to you instead of being applied towards the car.

Next, once they give you clean numbers (only for the car you're buying), ask them what money factor they're using. The base residual is 57% this month, and the MF I believe is .00111. They are likely maxing the MF as they're allowed to up to .00151.

Use this calculator to plug in the numbers they're giving you first, and then plug the numbers in with the base numbers above and see the difference: https://leasehackr.com/calculator

Then, send the updated numbers to them.

Use the money you get from the car, invest it into some high yield savings account and link autopay to it (or be more active and put it into some S&P 500 tracking ETF and just withdraw the payment each month into said savings account but just a thought).

In either case, never put any money down towards a lease, as you'll lose it if you were to total the car.

[E_R_S_M4_Comp]

Originally Posted by SHARMAATL

Honestly, the first thing you need to do is ask them to take the trade completely out of it. Take that just as a check to you instead of being applied towards the car.

Next, once they give you clean numbers (only for the car you're buying), ask them what money factor they're using. The base residual is 57% this month, and the MF I believe is .00111. They are likely maxing the MF as they're allowed to up to .00151.

Use this calculator to plug in the numbers they're giving you first, and then plug the numbers in with the base numbers above and see the difference: https://leasehackr.com/calculator

Then, send the updated numbers to them.

Use the money you get from the car, invest it into some high yield savings account and link autopay to it (or be more active and put it into some S&P 500 tracking ETF and just withdraw the payment each month into said savings account but just a thought).

In either case, never put any money down towards a lease, as you'll lose it if you were to total the car.

I asked for the check this morning. We'll see what they say. I completely agree with you. I can make money on that money while I'm waiting for the car...

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by E_R_S_M4_Comp

Well, if you guys could help me figure out where, I would appreciate it. I realize it was a rookie mistake; that's why I'm asking for help. I can always call the owner and get a check for the difference between my trade and payoff and renegotiate (which I just did). I figure that check should be $9,100 and given that I have put down $2k on an allocation that retains my place in line (or opens up opportunities for other dealers who may get an allocation sooner).

Right?

YOU need to know how to calculate your payment and tell them what YOU want to pay. Use MSRP for selling price 57% for RV and 0.00111 for MF. Roll acq fee into the cap and pay for dealer doc and govt title/lic fees separately. Make the time to understand all this or you will get destroyed in finance office when add-ons and renegotiating begins. Consider financing or pay cash instead as I don't get the feeling you will put the time in and leasing numbers stink these days anyway.

[Gfit]

First mistake is telling them you want to lease. Second is getting involved in trade in talks before negotiating price.

1. Negotiate price. MSRP is really the target these days
2. Insist on base MF
3. Tell them you are putting nothing down
4. The lease payment is what it is. There is nothing else to negotiate.

When done, tell them you have a trade, you researched the online and in person market and would like X for your car.

I usually do all that on the phone or text message in less than 10 min. It's that easy. I never go in person to dealer until they have to inspect trade or I pick up the car.

[E_R_S_M4_Comp]

Originally Posted by gohawks23

YOU need to know how to calculate your payment and tell them what YOU want to pay. Use MSRP for selling price 57% for RV and 0.00111 for MF. Roll acq fee into the cap and pay for dealer doc and govt title/lic fees separately. Make the time to understand all this or you will get destroyed in finance office when add-ons and renegotiating begins. Consider financing or pay cash instead as I don't get the feeling you will put the time in and leasing numbers stink these days anyway.

No, I intend to put in the time. I have months at my disposal at this point.

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by Gfit

First mistake is telling them you want to lease. Second is getting involved in trade in talks before negotiating price.

1. Negotiate price. MSRP is really the target these days
2. Insist on base MF
3. Tell them you are putting nothing down
4. The lease payment is what it is. There is nothing else to negotiate.

When done, tell them you have a trade, you researched the online and in person market and would like X for your car.

I usually do all that on the phone or text message in less than 10 min. It's that easy. I never go in person to dealer until they have to inspect trade or I pick up the car.

Yep, but you know the mechanisms of calculating a lease...and you have calculated and know what your payment should be. People that don't really understand will get raked esp with add-ons, etc. in finance. And their eyes roll back in head when reviewing contract...that stuff all needs to be understood or will get taken.

Most people give up and sign and that is why dealers/finance offices LOVE leasing...so many places for them to slip additional profit in...heck, what is another $50-75 a month...haha! :-)

[SHARMAATL]

Originally Posted by E_R_S_M4_Comp

No, I intend to put in the time. I have months at my disposal at this point.

Also I would advise against getting any add-ons in the F&I department. Everything they offer can be found from a third party at a lower price.

And, especially on a custom order, do not let them put things like window etching, tint, etc.

Finally, on the lease structure, I recommend doing a true $0 down $0 due at signing and rolling everything into the lease payments (others differ as they don't want to pay the 1.9% interest on the miscellaneous up front costs though it's only a few dollars). Atlanta has too many trash drivers for me to lose an ounce of money where I don't have to.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by E_R_S_M4_Comp

So, on a whim I checked out KBB and wanted to see what kind of cash offer I would get for my 2018 M3 Base, 16k miles, like new condition. I had 5 months left on my lease and the payoff was $51,400. KBB came back with $60k cash offer. My local dealer immediately called me and asked if I wanted to trade in early and order the M4 (like I planned to do, just waiting until February to order it for ~May delivery). So I get them to give me $60,500 for the M3 and spec'ed out the M4 I wanted:

2022 M4 Comp Coupe xDrive
Portimao Blue
Parking Assistance Package
Executive Package
M Shadowline Lights
Front Ventilated Seats
Icon Lights
Wireless Charging

MSRP (with delivery) came out to be $85,095

Now, I'm second in line for an allocation. Which is fine with me, I can go 6+ months using my wife or kids cars. So here is the deal numbers:

Market Value Selling Price- $85,095
Trade Allowance-$60,500
Trade Difference- $24, 595
Doc Fee- 698.50
Tax- $334.71
Non-Tax Fees- $941.50
Net Price- $26,569.71
Trade Payoff- $51,400
Balance- $77,970.57

I'm going to go with a 36 month lease.
With $3k down @10k miles: $1,024
With $4k down @10k miles: $994
with $5k down @ 10k miles: $963

So, I put down a $2k deposit.

I don't understand how they got to those lease numbers (and at that point, the tension in the room was THICK) but I was amenable to them. Does the $2k I put down go toward the "Cash Down"? So, I would need to put down another grand to make my 10k mile lease payment $1,024?

Where did the $9100 difference go with my trade-in of the M3? Even with that $9,100 I still need to put $3k down to get $1,024?

Regardless, I wanted to take advantage of the positive equity and get inline for an allocation. I'm also thinking of adding the M Carbon Fiber package based on all I have read and I like the look better.

Can you guys (without shi^ting on me) help me understand this?

Appreciate the help.

Here is the link to my trade in, if you're interested...
https://www.centurybmwhuntsville.com...f9490a2af4.htm

If I am reading this right you are putting down $11K on a lease? You have a $2k Cap Reduction along with the equity from your trade which is right at $9k. Don't do it, live with the higher payment and put the rest of the money back in the bank. You drive off the dealer lot and get into an accident and the car is totaled you just lost all that money. With leases you put down the least amount of money that the financing allows.

[TrevorM3]

current lease cash is 1000 bucks?

also, what exactly is loyalty lender cash? is that the same as loyalty? because that is 1000 as well. Doing paperwork for m3 next week.

[E_R_S_M4_Comp]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

current lease cash is 1000 bucks?

also, what exactly is loyalty lender cash? is that the same as loyalty? because that is 1000 as well. Doing paperwork for m3 next week.

I think it's $500 for the M4

[HyperK]

BMW M3.pdfHi everyone, was floating the idea of trading in my 911 for an M3. Main reason is I need the back space for the kids.
My local dealership just got a car in that is pretty much exactly how I would spec it.
The numbers that were preliminarily given to me seem off. Can someone with more knowledge about leases/finance weigh in. Thanks!
(I don't know how to post a picture so I attached the PDF)

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by HyperK

Attachment 2788111Hi everyone, was floating the idea of trading in my 911 for an M3. Main reason is I need the back space for the kids.
My local dealership just got a car in that is pretty much exactly how I would spec it.
The numbers that were preliminarily given to me seem off. Can someone with more knowledge about leases/finance weigh in. Thanks!
(I don't know how to post a picture so I attached the PDF)

Why do they seem off? Compared to what? Have you researched MF/RV and played with lease calc at leasehackr to see what numbers should be?

[M3PGH]

what is the MSRP on your 911
the market on them is hot now , I would recommend getting in touch with a Porsche dealer and see how much they offer on your trade in , and might be in your favor to separate the transaction

[SHARMAATL]

It's a tough pill to swallow seeing where M3/M4 pricing has gone. It was just at $800 a few short years ago, and now we're basically at double that.

With my X5 lease being up in May, I think it makes the most sense to just go lease the new Nissan Frontier. They have a 99% residual value for an 18 month lease, so payments are low to mid 200s (basically a rounding error on a paycheck).

Might drive that around as my daily for another 6-8 months after May until the market improves.

[Hutchinson04]

I placed a deposit of $2500 on November 11 to order an M4 convertible in Aventurine red. The car was completed on January 13. The car is currently in status 182. The dealer is charging me sticker. This is in contrast to dealers in Fort Lauderdale up charging $15,000 on all M4 orders.