[DETRoadster]

OP, I'm dying to know, does this woman think she's in a relationship with you? Does she think you two are "dating"? Does she intro you to people as her boyfriend or her friend? And equally as important, how do YOU introduce her to folks when you are together?

[shoei]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Too soon if you're trying to avoid snow lol. We get potential for heavy snowfall right up until April. Then it's heavy rainfall and cold/windy for a month. May/June is decent....

I need to move

I don't think I can dodge until May lol.

Good thing I just scooped up a pair of Jordans. Made out of gore-Tex.

[upstatedoc]

OK, just trying to get the facts straight. You're 30 years old and you joined the forum when you were 16. Since then, what other relationships with women have you had?

[D_o_S]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

OP, I'm dying to know, does this woman think she's in a relationship with you? Does she think you two are "dating"? Does she intro you to people as her boyfriend or her friend? And equally as important, how do YOU introduce her to folks when you are together?

It has sort of been everywhere, from "let's spend the rest of our lives together", to "we're just friends", to "do whatever you want". I introduce her as my friend, as she does the same... so no, we haven't implicitly or explicitly committed ourselves to an exclusive relationship.

And no, I haven't dated 30+ women in the 16 years I have been on the forum More like 10...

I just finished the Corey Wane book, and it's been a little help, but in all honesty, it doesn't answer the most fundamental question: when is it a test, and when is it shitty behavior.

He himself says, when you're talking about previous relationships/your ex, talk about it in a positive way... so he says "My last relationship ended because I couldn't love her correctly" = man is to blame...

But then he says "My ex-girlfriend had this habit of trying to instill jealousy - whenever things were not going her way, she would start hitting up her friends. So, I dumped her." (That's the tldr version). Well, if I am to abide to his teachings, clearly, he was not loving her enough, right??? Because if he was, the she wouldn't do these things...

[BMWCCA1]

Train wreck!

The excessive navel-gazing in this thread shows your unbelievable capacity for self-abuse. If you quit trying to fit that square-peg in that round-hole and let life unfold naturally you're likely to be much happier. Move on!

While I appreciate the entertainment value here, I find it incredible that the discussion has continued for so long with you sharing your situation with strangers for . . . what? To get some consensual validation? Or are you really a masochist? I feel sorry for you, I really do. Go out and enjoy life . . . with someone else! And quit taking advice from half-baked books and strangers—including me!

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

It has sort of been everywhere, from "let's spend the rest of our lives together", to "we're just friends", to "do whatever you want". I introduce her as my friend, as she does the same... so no, we haven't implicitly or explicitly committed ourselves to an exclusive relationship.

And no, I haven't dated 30+ women in the 16 years I have been on the forum More like 10...

I just finished the Corey Wane book, and it's been a little help, but in all honesty, it doesn't answer the most fundamental question: when is it a test, and when is it shitty behavior.

He himself says, when you're talking about previous relationships/your ex, talk about it in a positive way... so he says "My last relationship ended because I couldn't love her correctly" = man is to blame...

But then he says "My ex-girlfriend had this habit of trying to instill jealousy - whenever things were not going her way, she would start hitting up her friends. So, I dumped her." (That's the tldr version). Well, if I am to abide to his teachings, clearly, he was not loving her enough, right??? Because if he was, the she wouldn't do these things...

Man you remind me so much of one of my best and longest friends, it's really incredible. He too obsessively over-thinks and analyzes EVERYTHING when it comes to women. He's just turned 50, is single, and has had 1 actual romantic relationship in his life. He's a great guy but his ability to sabotage things and land himself in friendsville is epic. This woman you are hanging out with is your friend, nothing more. She may have had romantic interest in you in the past but its now gone, I believe. She's got a good, safe, friend to pal around with who takes care of her and buys her things. There's nothing expected in return from you other than companionship. it's safe and comfortable for her which is HUGE for women as they always have in the back of their mind "If I let my guard down and have a few drinks, alone at this guy's house, am I going to get myself in a bad situation?" Your inability to stand up for yourself and voice your desires combined with zero romantic overtures (so far as I can tell) has lead to this situation in which she truly sees you as nothing more than a good friend. Stop waiting for the Hollywood movie version where the good buddy suddenly wakes up one day and realizes you've been the one all along, right under her nose. I'll bet you a million $$$ she knows full well you have romantic feelings for her. But she doesnt want to rock the boat by addressing it and because you dont push the issue, you stagnate. I'll also bet you she's quietly dating people on the side. She's just not telling you because she doesnt want to crush your heart and risk the friendship.

Not saying you cant still be buddies with her, but my man, you need to start looking elsewhere for love. Start dating. This girl aint going to happen for you in that way. All those self-help books are geared towards how to drive a NEW relationship in the direction you want. This current train is already off the romantic tracks. About the only thing that could pull it back is for you to stop having time for her because you are out with other women.

[No one]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

it doesn't answer the most fundamental question: when is it a test, and when is it shitty behavior.

A test is a shitty behaviour.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by No one

A test is a shitty behaviour.

Yep. Shit tests, "congruence" or whatever tests, etc. The idea of being able to apply some formula to regular people is asinine, people are far to compilated. And trying to trap someone is a sign that youre the problem.

Ive watched a few friends do this (both genders) and they are all still 40 without any meaningful relationships in the past decade and are the "there are no good men/women" types.

[D_o_S]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Man you remind me so much of one of my best and longest friends, it's really incredible. He too obsessively over-thinks and analyzes EVERYTHING when it comes to women. He's just turned 50, is single, and has had 1 actual romantic relationship in his life. He's a great guy but his ability to sabotage things and land himself in friendsville is epic. This woman you are hanging out with is your friend, nothing more. She may have had romantic interest in you in the past but its now gone, I believe. She's got a good, safe, friend to pal around with who takes care of her and buys her things. There's nothing expected in return from you other than companionship. it's safe and comfortable for her which is HUGE for women as they always have in the back of their mind "If I let my guard down and have a few drinks, alone at this guy's house, am I going to get myself in a bad situation?" Your inability to stand up for yourself and voice your desires combined with zero romantic overtures (so far as I can tell) has lead to this situation in which she truly sees you as nothing more than a good friend. Stop waiting for the Hollywood movie version where the good buddy suddenly wakes up one day and realizes you've been the one all along, right under her nose. I'll bet you a million $$$ she knows full well you have romantic feelings for her. But she doesnt want to rock the boat by addressing it and because you dont push the issue, you stagnate. I'll also bet you she's quietly dating people on the side. She's just not telling you because she doesnt want to crush your heart and risk the friendship.

Not saying you cant still be buddies with her, but my man, you need to start looking elsewhere for love. Start dating. This girl aint going to happen for you in that way. All those self-help books are geared towards how to drive a NEW relationship in the direction you want. This current train is already off the romantic tracks. About the only thing that could pull it back is for you to stop having time for her because you are out with other women.

Thanks for your response! And all the other replies!

Yes, I clearly have some "non-standard" personality traits and find myself to be happiest when I am alone to tinker with things. I was raised to be a giver, so I give all I've got, sometimes for the wrong cause and to the wrong people. And it's brought the good for me in places (school and career success), but also the bad (relationships, clearly). On the one hand, people (and all these books!) will tell you "not to settle", but I think that's NOT the case: rather, you have to be sober in what you are to expect from the relationship/your partner.

To a certain extent, I look at myself in this situation like an engineer asking: why he can't get his car to fly. Cars don't fly. In essence, I am wondering about things that just don't work that way, i.e. I am expecting something where it is not to be found.

Hence all the comments "move on" or "run"... i.e. quit trying to get the car to fly, get an airplane.

All in all, I am thankful for the experience, and to have learned what I have learned. My next step is going to voice what I want to her - because now I have seen patterns - and let things be... no, not "cold turkey", but I have tried and played my part to be able to pronounce what I wish to say with a clear conscience, given the benefit of a doubt, that I will prefer to NOT be part of some situations, than to be there.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

T
All in all, I am thankful for the experience, and to have learned what I have learned. My next step is going to voice what I want to her - because now I have seen patterns - and let things be... no, not "cold turkey", but I have tried and played my part to be able to pronounce what I wish to say with a clear conscience, given the benefit of a doubt, that I will prefer to NOT be part of some situations, than to be there.

Wait...whut??

Not even going to try to decipher whatever it was you aren't saying, because you clearly chose to obfuscate the matter.

You need to start dating with a view towards marriage if that's what you want. Ask her point blank if she is interested in a romantic relationship, see what she says. But if so, what you've got has to change. There has to be some physical spark there on her end...have you guys even kissed?

If she isn't and you still want her as a friend then fine, but start spending your time and money on someone else. Don't spend any money on her, she's using you at that point. See if she walks away at that point, if so, then you know. If not, then maybe she is truly interested in being a friend.

But start dating for fricks sake. If she isn't interested then get on internet dating, start talking to women at whatever you do as a hobby, or at work, or wherever. Just start!

But point blank - ask her. Tell her you are interested in her (if you are) and ask if she feels the same way and see what she says. That cuts through all this other BS that the books no doubt told you. Go with your gut and stop reading these self help books.

Self help books are often the author helping him/her self to your money. That's the only self getting helped.

[tcphoto]

Drop her like third period French! You cannot change people, you will only drive yourself crazy.

[tomjonesBT33]

Originally Posted by BRAKE!

Cut out the noise and listen to your gut. Clearly it's trying to signal alarm bells as you know this IS NOT right (would you have spoken to her that way?)

Quit trying to justify this in your head with all these excuses. The bottom line is, she's insecure - wants a certain guy to an idealistic view of what she wants next to her (once again, because she's insecure). And you holding on to this for dear life makes you sound insecure too. Half of this world is women, odds are in your favor you can find another one you like.


Another simple way to look at this, don't look at the nuances of each response, count up how many ppl are telling you NO vs YES.

^^ this

Something inside you is ringing the alarm bells. You deserve to be with someone that wants to be with you. She doesn't sound like that person.

[Ultimateone]

5 pages now, wow

[DETRoadster]

Like Joekerr said, it's really a simple thing at this point. Ask her point blank if she sees you two being more than friends. If the answer is "no", then move on from that dream and start dating. You can still be friends with her but at least you aren't in limbo anymore. Just take action and get out of this terrible rut you've got yourself in. If her answer is "yes" but comes with a bunch of conditions, forget it. Hell, even if you DONT have that convo with her, get out there and start dating regardless, she certainly is.

[D_o_S]

Well, things are getting scary fast...

I haven't seen her in a while due to travel, work and covid... and I wanted to discuss these things with her in person. Phonecalls have been normal/little bit negative/little bit funny...

But today, out of nowhere, we have a call, discuss that I would come by some evening to help her out with some home furnishings (not to push it home, but she asked for the help herself a few days ago) and she says "I don't know if we'll be doing those furnishings that evening"...

What?

So am I supposed to say "Oh yeah, that's fine, we can do them some other day?" or "Oh, so sorry, you'd like to do them another day? Sorry for not asking"..????

I mean, it seemed a little too much, I just let it be... but I question how I could have misinterpreted these things for so long?

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Well, things are getting scary fast...

I haven't seen her in a while due to travel, work and covid... and I wanted to discuss these things with her in person. Phonecalls have been normal/little bit negative/little bit funny...

But today, out of nowhere, we have a call, discuss that I would come by some evening to help her out with some home furnishings (not to push it home, but she asked for the help herself a few days ago) and she says "I don't know if we'll be doing those furnishings that evening"...

What?

So am I supposed to say "Oh yeah, that's fine, we can do them some other day?" or "Oh, so sorry, you'd like to do them another day? Sorry for not asking"..????

I mean, it seemed a little too much, I just let it be... but I question how I could have misinterpreted these things for so long?

It asks the question it was told to ask.

It asks the question it was told to ask.

It asks the question it was told to ask.

Then, and only then, it reports back here.

[D_o_S]

Ya, will do that, but I think you guys are right... friendzone.

But I have friends that treat me better... so...

[shoei]

Is this satire or is this legit? I really cannot tell at this point.

Also, can someone post religious or political shit in here so we can burn this thread to the ground please?

[wren57]

Dude, you're her #7 option. Stop making her your #1 option.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Well, things are getting scary fast...

I haven't seen her in a while due to travel, work and covid... and I wanted to discuss these things with her in person. Phonecalls have been normal/little bit negative/little bit funny...

But today, out of nowhere, we have a call, discuss that I would come by some evening to help her out with some home furnishings (not to push it home, but she asked for the help herself a few days ago) and she says "I don't know if we'll be doing those furnishings that evening"...

What?

So am I supposed to say "Oh yeah, that's fine, we can do them some other day?" or "Oh, so sorry, you'd like to do them another day? Sorry for not asking"..????

I mean, it seemed a little too much, I just let it be... but I question how I could have misinterpreted these things for so long?

i cant tell if she is trying to give you a hint that she wants to fuck or if you are so oblivious to any signals that she just is tired of you.

if she said it the way i read your typing, she was trying to hint at fucking but you are clearly oblivious to it and this is why nothing is happening.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

i cant tell if she is trying to give you a hint that she wants to fuck or if you are so oblivious to any signals that she just is tired of you.

if she said it the way i read your typing, she was trying to hint at fucking but you are clearly oblivious to it and this is why nothing is happening.

TBH it's also the way I read it, but who knows if he typed it exactly as how she said it, nor can we tell the tone of voice either.

But none of that matters. At least not until it asks the question it was told to ask.

[D_o_S]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

i cant tell if she is trying to give you a hint that she wants to fuck or if you are so oblivious to any signals that she just is tired of you.

if she said it the way i read your typing, she was trying to hint at fucking but you are clearly oblivious to it and this is why nothing is happening.

no, it wasn't said in a "we'll be doing OTHER things" way...

For some reason, I always try to "rephrase" what she says, giving her the benefit of the doubt, but it seems like I've been doing that the entire time I have known her! I.e. she's saying that because she's tired, she's had a bad day etc...

She said it like "I proposed a plan" (Monday), "It's OK that you're available and willing to help me" (Wednesday), "but I just had a change of mind and I don't know if I need help, want help, I have no other propositions"

I mean, between friends, I would have expected something like (h = her, m =me):
H: "Hey, can you help me diagnose this misfire I'm having?"
M: "Sure thing, say thursday evening?"
H: "Ya, will confirm during the week"

Wednesday rolls round
M: Hey, what's up...? Are we going to check out the misfire tomorrow?
H: Yeah, I was wondering, could we maybe do it next week sometime? I think I'd prefer to take a nap tomorrow/go for a run/do yoga/study astrophysics/whatever...

Instead, I get an answer: I'm not sure we'll be doing that tomorrow. (i.e. = I'm not sure we will see each other. I'm not sure I need help. I'm not going to offer any alternatives)