[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

This is what I am contemplating doing despite my aversion to the 145k price tag.

Well, the new one will certainly be much more expensive, and heavy! A decently optioned G05 X5Mcomp will run around $130K-ish, which is a heavy pricetag, but will likely be my last ICE car

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

Well, the new one will certainly be much more expensive, and heavy! A decently optioned G05 X5Mcomp will run around $130K-ish, which is a heavy pricetag, but will likely be my last ICE car

I hear you. My 145k price is the X6M and the X5M is a bit cheaper. FWIW, I won’t buy a hybrid M car using the technology that is currently in the XM and M5….been there, tried it, didn’t like it. So, I get one of the current generation cars or I don’t get one.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

If the X5 is going to "high luxury", I wonder what that means for the X7. Curious what the next gen X7 will offer to differentiate itself besides just an extra row of seats.

I've owned both the current X5 with air/third row and the X7 with third row. The X7 is much more luxurious. Not sure what you're addressing in terms of elevating the luxury of the X7. Don't forget there's also the XB7.

[UpstateCP]

Originally Posted by Cruise'n

Must say 12 months on and 15000km the vegan leather still looks like new and not at all baggy and saggy like the leather always goes. Got to say I like it eventually, but honestly didn't want it, price went up and leather disappears.... really, but glad now.
Market dependent as was a cost option on my build for all the leather options. Why do I get leather dash and doors though still..?

The merino in my 2020 X5 still looks and feels fantastic after 4+ years and 50k+ miles. No bagging and sagging to speak of.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

I've owned both the current X5 with air/third row and the X7 with third row. The X7 is much more luxurious. Not sure what you're addressing in terms of elevating the luxury of the X7. Don't forget there's also the XB7.

I was asking a question for what it means for the future X7 if the future X5 is being pushed into "high luxury".

I also have owned a G05 and now currently own a G07. I know the difference in THIS generation is there, I'm curious how they'll define that difference in the future generation.

[jackaleyess]

Just make sure it isnt a controversial design language like the X3. Please hire designers that stick to tradition and most importantly, know about car design. Not some hipster woke designer that tryna be inclusive.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I was asking a question for what it means for the future X7 if the future X5 is being pushed into "high luxury".

I also have owned a G05 and now currently own a G07. I know the difference in THIS generation is there, I'm curious how they'll define that difference in the future generation.

Understood. I am also curious what else there is that could be elevated in the X7 ... hopefully the prices won't get hiked as well for when I need to replace ours- wishful thinking I'm sure. Relative to the GLS the X7 is already superior for 3rd row luxury.

[pr0gi]

I hope adding more options to the base car is not what they call more luxurious. The new X3 is a prime example. Maybe the perception of what luxury is has changed, and I'm too old to keep up.

[JoeAyalaM]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

The X5 and X7 are the best all around SUVs out there, but they are dialed in without driving pleasure.

What are you talking about?

My X5 is soo much more a JOY TO DRIVE than any Jeep, Chevrolet, Lexus or Acura SUV I have ever driven.

Just compare driving them against any American, Korean or Japanese brand SUV (other than Mazda) and you will understand.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by jmack123

The anti-Chinese racism is staggering on this forum.

You realize the Chinese are leading the world in many forms of tech, particularly EVs right?

Literally claiming a particular feature can not be luxurious because “Chinese” cars share the same feature. What a joke.

Originally Posted by SoCali E36

They lead only because everything they have is stolen from the rest of the world. The price we all paid for having things made by them.

I have a friend who is an automotive electrical engineer. A number of years ago he worked for an American company that was developing an EV for sale in China and he lived there working with the Chinese for a period of time. He said the efforts they went to to steal his company’s technology were astounding. His company finally pulled the plug (pun made, but not intended) on working with them and he left China with a very low opinion of the Chinese.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

What are you talking about?

My X5 is soo much more a JOY TO DRIVE than any Jeep, Chevrolet, Lexus or Acura SUV I have ever driven.

Just compare driving them against any American, Korean or Japanese brand SUV (other than Mazda) and you will understand.

Driving pleasure, not competence or joy. Feeling the road, the excitement of the noises and feelings you get. Compared to those you mentioned, yes. Compared to something better, no. At this price point, just take the M60 for example, the Cayenne or Alfa or Mercedes even will have more driving feel. I said the X5 is better to drive than American, Korean, or Japanese vehicles. There’s no debate about that.

Take for example the M3 vs the CLE AMG. I have owned both, and there is more instant driving pleasure in the Merc. It feels connected while the M3 is numb and isolated. The M3 is faster but not more pleasurable.

I love our BMW SUVs and wouldn’t trade them for anything else. But the conversation was around pleasure in driving, not other metrics. There is a distinction there. I actually want my X7 and iX to be isolated, quiet, and a luxury cruiser. It’s the ultimate riding machine and very competent at driving as well.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

So plastic? Imagine paying 100K for a plastic interior - Literally recycled trash.

The world will embrace in very short time the replacement of animal hides as a statement of high luxary. Their replacement aiding in approaching Circularity and a more eco and ethical holistic approach to car design and production.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Frosty

The world will embrace in very short time the replacement of animal hides as a statement of high luxary. Their replacement aiding in approaching Circularity and a more eco and ethical holistic approach to car design and production.

But it's not friendly - it's literally cheaper, and relies on the same resource we say we are attempting to move away from.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Like this? BMW invented the ergonomic standard and allowed Tesla to change their entire philosophy.

More E90/F1 and less E46.

[JoeAyalaM]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Driving pleasure, not competence or joy. Feeling the road, the excitement of the noises and feelings you get. Compared to those you mentioned, yes. Compared to something better, no. At this price point, just take the M60 for example, the Cayenne or Alfa or Mercedes even will have more driving feel. I said the X5 is better to drive than American, Korean, or Japanese vehicles. There’s no debate about that.

Take for example the M3 vs the CLE AMG. I have owned both, and there is more instant driving pleasure in the Merc. It feels connected while the M3 is numb and isolated. The M3 is faster but not more pleasurable.

I love our BMW SUVs and wouldn’t trade them for anything else. But the conversation was around pleasure in driving, not other metrics. There is a distinction there. I actually want my X7 and iX to be isolated, quiet, and a luxury cruiser. It’s the ultimate riding machine and very competent at driving as well.

You seem to equate driving pleasure to only a tight, connected, rigid chassis, sport capable automobile. But not everyone thinks or feels like you, so the driving pleasure doesn't have to be the same thing all the time in all cars for all people, FYI. If it was, there would be no Citroen, or Bentley or Mayback or old Cadillacs fans, that love driving them, because those cars give them plenty of pleasure.

I find my X5 M60i with air suspension delivers plenty driving pleasure for my taste, the engine, transmission, suspension comfort, etc, all work to a package very well put together.

I hope you may get something you like if your driving pleasure expectations are no longer met by the X5 or X7. But that doesn't mean BMW dialed the driving pleasure out from them, like you said, only that you no longer like to drive them.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

You seem to equate driving pleasure to only a tight, connected, rigid chassis, sport capable automobile. But not everyone thinks or feels like you, so the driving pleasure doesn't have to be the same thing all the time in all cars for all people, FYI. If it was, there would be no Citroen, or Bentley or Mayback or old Cadillacs fans, that love driving them, because those cars give them plenty of pleasure.

I find my X5 M60i with air suspension delivers plenty driving pleasure for my taste, the engine, transmission, suspension comfort, etc, all work to a package very well put together.

I hope you may get something you like if your driving pleasure expectations are no longer met by the X5 or X7. But that doesn't mean BMW dialed the driving pleasure out from them, like you said, only that you no longer like to drive them.

No, I equate driving pleasure to feel of the road through the steering wheel and tires. It doesn’t have to be rigid. If you go back and read the thread, I was responding to someone who said the motto “ultimate driving machine” no longer applies to BMW. And it’s true. I don’t know how long you’ve driven BMWs, but they used to communicate without necessarily being rigid or firm.

And you’re putting words in my mouth- I love driving my BMWs. But they’re numb.

[JoeAyalaM]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

No, I equate driving pleasure to feel of the road through the steering wheel and tires. It doesn’t have to be rigid. If you go back and read the thread, I was responding to someone who said the motto “ultimate driving machine” no longer applies to BMW. And it’s true. I don’t know how long you’ve driven BMWs, but they used to communicate without necessarily being rigid or firm.

And you’re putting words in my mouth- I love driving my BMWs. But they’re numb.

I am sorry but I did not put anything in your mouth. Can you read your own post? You said they're dialed in without driving pleasure, I beg to differ.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

I am sorry but I did not put anything in your mouth. Can you read your own post? You said they're dialed in without driving pleasure, I beg to differ.

Allow me to clarify - there’s more riding pleasure than driving pleasure in BMW SUVs. And it didn’t used to be that way. Try driving something else that’s a step up in driving pleasure - Audi SQ7 or Mercedes AMG or Porsche Ceyenne. Then let me know if you understand what I’m saying here. Your response is a bit delusional. You’re saying I should switch vehicles and that I’m contradicting myself. Not true. I prefer the tradeoffs - after all, it’s an SUV. I also provided another more distinct and relevant example of what I mean and this has been corroborated in those threads - the M3 is numb and the driving feel comes from the chassis - drive by the seat of your pants. Driving the new CLE53AMG has been refreshing if only for the feel of the steering and brakes and a feeling of cohesiveness and connectedness. It’s a slower car to be sure but has feeling. Or the Blackwing or AQ have similarly more driving pleasure than the M3.

Look, I’ve been driving BMWs for 30 years. It’s not an ignorant or misguided critique or understanding on my part. There is nothing really debatable. The e39 M5 and older X5 gens and e46 and f8x and e9x M3’s were also better drivers cars. But yes I prefer the BMW SUVs to everything else because of how comfortable, efficient, fast, and reliable they are.

[JoeAyalaM]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Allow me to clarify - there’s more riding pleasure than driving pleasure in BMW SUVs. And it didn’t used to be that way. Try driving something else that’s a step up in driving pleasure - Audi SQ7 or Mercedes AMG or Porsche Ceyenne. Then let me know if you understand what I’m saying here. Your response is a bit delusional. You’re saying I should switch vehicles and that I’m contradicting myself. Not true. I prefer the tradeoffs - after all, it’s an SUV. I also provided another more distinct and relevant example of what I mean and this has been corroborated in those threads - the M3 is numb and the driving feel comes from the chassis - drive by the seat of your pants. Driving the new CLE53AMG has been refreshing if only for the feel of the steering and brakes and a feeling of cohesiveness and connectedness. It’s a slower car to be sure but has feeling. Or the Blackwing or AQ have similarly more driving pleasure than the M3.

Look, I’ve been driving BMWs for 30 years. It’s not an ignorant or misguided critique or understanding on my part. There is nothing really debatable. The e39 M5 and older X5 gens and e46 and f8x and e9x M3’s were also better drivers cars. But yes I prefer the BMW SUVs to everything else because of how comfortable, efficient, fast, and reliable they are.

You now keep on ammending your comment, trying to make it somehow make sense... calling mine a bit delusional, but not owning that your first comment was just not correct. Seems like you might be the type of person who owns the truth.

Well, it's not my case, at least I hope it´s not. And I also do not like getting into fruitless discussions with pleople with no real arguments or integrity to accept reality.

So you won´t read following comments from me on this topic, and THANK YOU for letting us know that current X5s and X7s are "dialed without driving pleasure" and that the correct term is "riding pleasure", not like in the long gone days when it was all better.

[Bimmerfun82]

JoeAyalaM you just want to argue. I’m done debating.

[Rafichicago]

I wish they’d put screen into footrests and such. It would’ve finaly looked properly integrated. And one in the headliner and one under the hood where engine sound deadening is.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I have a friend who is an automotive electrical engineer. A number of years ago he worked for an American company that was developing an EV for sale in China and he lived there working with the Chinese for a period of time. He said the efforts they went to to steal his company’s technology were astounding. His company finally pulled the plug (pun made, but not intended) on working with them and he left China with a very low opinion of the Chinese.

The issues with your response are:
a) You generalizing them as “the Chinese” like they are one monolithic block who all behave the same and not treating them as individuals further cements my point.
b) Your friend could have completely made that story up, or misinterpreted the situation.

Also, apparently you missed the memo on the number of Teslas sold in China. If that was such a threat, I doubt they’d be selling there. I doubt any American automaker would. Clearly, Tesla and others (e.g. Buick) haven’t been tremendously threatened.