bimmerpost/
BMW M2 and 2-Series Coupe
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
BMW M2 Forums 2023+ (G87) BMW M2 G87 General Topics

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-29-2021, 06:54 PM   #617
IllSic_Design
Colonel
IllSic_Design's Avatar
United_States
2123
Rep
2,758
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (1)

Oh man I may actually finally own an M car if this M2 comes out as you guys(Scott26, Artemis, Lementier) are saying it will be/look like.
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2021, 07:28 PM   #618
lemetier
Plenipotentiary
lemetier's Avatar
2614
Rep
3,046
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Size doesn't increase dramatically with the exception of track/body width. G42 is as wide as current F87 with G87 increased even further. The G87 is going to be a rather special car. It will be the final non-hybridized ICE volume production model released, starting with a 450ps 6MT Pure.
Width: yeah, E82 'bulldog stance' of a decade ago 'Reloaded'.

[IMG]https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...8;d=1614281858[/IMG]

[IMG]https://bimmerpost.imgix.net/goodies...%20M2%2013.jpg[/IMG]

Attachment 2565691
Good selection of images. Still a ways off before the mules out in public have production body panels on them (they're still in the cut and splice stage).
Appreciate 4
BMWGirlFL6232.50
MPSdriver192.00
JTO245246.50
      03-29-2021, 08:12 PM   #619
lemetier
Plenipotentiary
lemetier's Avatar
2614
Rep
3,046
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Size doesn't increase dramatically with the exception of track/body width. G42 is as wide as current F87 with G87 increased even further. The G87 is going to be a rather special car. It will be the final non-hybridized ICE volume production model released, starting with a 450ps 6MT Pure.
Any ideas if this will be the last available M car available with a manual transmission?
Logic says yes, gut says no.
Appreciate 1
W///7435.50
      03-29-2021, 09:17 PM   #620
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28913
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Logic says yes, gut says no.
The past:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Preuninger in a TopGear interview in April 2010 about the PDK gearbox:
"Grandmas can use paddles. They aren’t challenging." (yup, his words)
(source: https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...dr/road-test-0)

Preuninger with Chris Harris in 2015 (Cayman GT4 test):
Spring 2017:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Expectations for the new 911 GT3 6MT:
"It also gave chance to revisit discussion of the manual option with Andreas Preuninger. I start, cheekily, by reminding him that at the launch of the previous GT3 the PDK-only decision was pitched as a big improvement, largely on the basis of its faster lap times. "Well it is still faster on track," Preuninger says, "but lap times aren't everything, are they?" Preuninger stresses his ambition has always been to offer transmission choice - "like whether you take the ceramic brakes" - but limited development resources restricted what was possible. But he admits the PDK-only GT3 displeased some traditional buyers, with the huge popularity of the manual-only Cayman GT4 - and an increase in engineering resources - making the case. This was initially used in the 911 R, but the plan was always to spread the costs by offering it in the GT3 as well. Preuninger says he doesn't know how many people will opt for the manual - a zero-cost option tick in most territories - but reckons it could be as high as a third of production. "If it's less than 20 per cent then I'm in trouble," he admits."
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...l-review/36190
2021:
See here ("The Porsche 911 GT3 attracts American manual buyers - It more than doubles the global take rate here").

The future:
Porsche's expectation about the 992 GT3 sporting a manual transmission: see here:
"Porsche GT Division boss Andreas Preuninger predicts some 40% of new 911 GT3 buyers will specify the manual ’box, but head of motorsport Frank-Steffen Walliser hinted it could be even more. “We lost several bottles of wine by betting on the take rate when we reintroduced the manual option. We were surprised by how high it was,” he said."
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2021, 10:55 PM   #621
lemetier
Plenipotentiary
lemetier's Avatar
2614
Rep
3,046
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Logic says yes, gut says no.
The past:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Preuninger in a TopGear interview in April 2010 about the PDK gearbox:
"Grandmas can use paddles. They aren’t challenging." (yup, his words)
(source: https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...dr/road-test-0)

Preuninger with Chris Harris in 2015 (Cayman GT4 test):
Spring 2017:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Expectations for the new 911 GT3 6MT:
"It also gave chance to revisit discussion of the manual option with Andreas Preuninger. I start, cheekily, by reminding him that at the launch of the previous GT3 the PDK-only decision was pitched as a big improvement, largely on the basis of its faster lap times. "Well it is still faster on track," Preuninger says, "but lap times aren't everything, are they?" Preuninger stresses his ambition has always been to offer transmission choice - "like whether you take the ceramic brakes" - but limited development resources restricted what was possible. But he admits the PDK-only GT3 displeased some traditional buyers, with the huge popularity of the manual-only Cayman GT4 - and an increase in engineering resources - making the case. This was initially used in the 911 R, but the plan was always to spread the costs by offering it in the GT3 as well. Preuninger says he doesn't know how many people will opt for [COLOR="Red"]the manual[/COLOR] - a zero-cost option tick in most territories - but [COLOR="Red"]reckons[/COLOR] it could be as high as [COLOR="Red"]a third of production[/COLOR]. [COLOR="Red"]"If it's less than 20 per cent then I'm in trouble,"[/COLOR] he admits."
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...l-review/36190
2021:
See here ("The Porsche 911 GT3 attracts American manual buyers - It more than doubles the global take rate here").

The future:
Porsche's expectation about the 992 GT3 sporting a manual transmission: see here:
"Porsche GT Division boss Andreas Preuninger predicts some 40% of new 911 GT3 buyers will specify the manual ’box, but head of motorsport Frank-Steffen Walliser hinted it could be even more. “We lost several bottles of wine by betting on the take rate when we reintroduced the manual option. We were surprised by how high it was,” he said."
Not really comparable. There's an additional factor that isn't mentioned en masse that will kill off the mainstream MT. New Vehicle Acquisition Method, or Lease vs. Purchase.
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2021, 11:48 PM   #622
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28913
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Another aspect regarding widened width: production facility limitations.

It has been already reported over here that the USA-spec G87 M2 ('xxx3' = USA-spec LHD) will be built at the state-of-the-art plant of BMW San Luis Potosí in Mexico (see here and here).

For building the EUR-spec G87 M2 ('xxx1' = EUR-spec LHD | 'xxx2' = EUR-spec RHD) I guess that a 'collision check' will have been performed again at the BMW Leipzig plant, this time using a G42 2er prototype. See picture below: March 2014 'collision check' during development of the F87 M2, using an F22 M235i: "can it safely pass through the production facility ?":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Keep in mind that the infrastructure at the Leipzig factory also plays a key role: prior to building the M2, a 'collision check' through the production facilities was performed (see the picture below: "Störkantendurchlauf" = interfering edges run-through - source: this video (11:21-11:40)).
If an M2 variant fails that test (too wide), it's either back to the drawing board or build the car (partially) elsewhere, or work with 'add-on' body parts. I cannot see BMW restructuring the Leipzig production facility merely for building an M2 variant.
Conclusion: M2 variant fenders can only become as wide as the "Störkantendurchlauf" test allows. Likely there's still some margin compared to the current M2, but it might be getting tight.

__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 1
      03-30-2021, 12:04 AM   #623
lemetier
Plenipotentiary
lemetier's Avatar
2614
Rep
3,046
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Another aspect regarding widened width: production facility limitations.

It has been already reported over here that the USA-spec G87 M2 ('xxx3' = USA-spec LHD) will be built at the state-of-the-art plant of BMW San Luis Potosí in Mexico (see here and here).

For building the EUR-spec G87 M2 ('xxx1' = EUR-spec LHD | 'xxx2' = EUR-spec RHD) very likely a new 'collision check' will have been performed again at the BMW Leipzig plant (see picture below: March 2014 'collision check' during development of the F87 M2, using an F22 2er: "can it pass everywhere ?"):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Keep in mind that the infrastructure at the Leipzig factory also plays a key role: prior to building the M2, a 'collision check' through the production facilities was performed (see the picture below: "Störkantendurchlauf" = interfering edges run-through - source: this video (11:21-11:40)).
If an M2 variant fails that test (too wide), it's either back to the drawing board or build the car (partially) elsewhere, or work with 'add-on' body parts. I cannot see BMW restructuring the Leipzig production facility merely for building an M2 variant.
Conclusion: M2 variant fenders can only become as wide as the "Störkantendurchlauf" test allows. Likely there's still some margin compared to the current M2, but it might be getting tight.

100% sure it's going to roll off the line at Leipzig?
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2021, 12:45 AM   #624
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28913
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
100% sure it's going to roll off the line at Leipzig?
No, not seen confirmation yet of production at the Leipzig plant.

But, also for geographical reasons, it would make sense to produce the USA-spec G42 2er and G87 M2 in Mexico and the EUR-spec G42 2er and G87 M2 in Germany (compare with the G20 3er production: several plants worldwide including Mexico and Germany). Transatlantic transport delays for deliveries to European 'home market' customers: IMHO unlikely.

Clear indication of preparing G42 and G87 production in Mexico (dedicated thread: here):



Appreciate 0
      03-30-2021, 08:37 AM   #625
lemetier
Plenipotentiary
lemetier's Avatar
2614
Rep
3,046
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
100% sure it's going to roll off the line at Leipzig?
No, not seen confirmation yet of production at the Leipzig plant.

But, also for geographical reasons, it would make sense to produce the USA-spec G42 2er and G87 M2 in Mexico and the EUR-spec G42 2er and G87 M2 in Germany (compare with the G20 3er production: several plants worldwide including Mexico and Germany). Transatlantic transport delays for deliveries to European 'home market' customers: IMHO unlikely.

Clear indication of preparing G42 and G87 production in Mexico (dedicated thread: here):



I'd imagine Graz is more likely. Magna is the contract manufacturer for G42/G82 BiW after all.
Appreciate 3
JTO245246.50
SW192441.50
Artemis28913.00
      04-02-2021, 04:36 PM   #626
NickyC
Lieutenant General
NickyC's Avatar
17351
Rep
10,597
Posts

Drives: M4 CS. Former G82, x2 F82, F80
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacked out of my mind

iTrader: (23)

I have very high hopes for this car. My G8x fund has officially been rolled over into this model as there’s nothing else which interests me. Can’t wait to see the final version. I just hope they offer better colors than the boring colors on the prior model. Individual paint options would be awesome.
Appreciate 0
      04-03-2021, 04:20 PM   #627
Game
------
Game's Avatar
No_Country
7274
Rep
10,156
Posts

Drives: G87 M2 (sold)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chicago'ish

iTrader: (25)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
I have very high hopes for this car. My G8x fund has officially been rolled over into this model as there’s nothing else which interests me. Can’t wait to see the final version. I just hope they offer better colors than the boring colors on the prior model. Individual paint options would be awesome.
With the popularity of the vibrant colors of the G80, I think they'd be stupid not to.
__________________
Appreciate 2
NickyC17350.50
JTO245246.50
      04-04-2021, 11:22 AM   #628
n55f15
First Lieutenant
1263
Rep
345
Posts

Drives: G42 M240I
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Wonder if there’ll be any elements of the 2002 hommage in the design
Appreciate 0
      04-11-2021, 10:59 AM   #629
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28913
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
I have very high hopes for this car. My G8x fund has officially been rolled over into this model as there’s nothing else which interests me. Can’t wait to see the final version. I just hope they offer better colors than the boring colors on the prior model. Individual paint options would be awesome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game View Post
With the popularity of the vibrant colors of the G80, I think they'd be stupid not to.
With Valencia Orange Metallic the car moves, even when parked.



__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 3
stein_325i25051.00
NickyC17350.50
Game7274.00
      04-11-2021, 06:24 PM   #630
Sublime00
Banned
1129
Rep
662
Posts

Drives: Car
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Ny

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Any ideas if this will be the last available M car available with a manual transmission?
Why would this be the last M car with a manual?

I think BMW will keep making a manual M car as long if there's a market for one. As long as the net emissions by the manufacturer meet whatever standard is set by the country they're selling in, which if hypothetically 80% of the model range is electric, would be plenty of ICE manual cars that BMW could build.

Isn't the M2 almost 50/50 take rate between manual and DCT? Why lose out on that market share?
Appreciate 0
      04-11-2021, 07:37 PM   #631
W///
Lieutenant General
W///'s Avatar
7436
Rep
12,293
Posts

Drives: F82GTS, E36/E92M3, Z4M
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sublime00 View Post
Why would this be the last M car with a manual?

I think BMW will keep making a manual M car as long if there's a market for one. As long as the net emissions by the manufacturer meet whatever standard is set by the country they're selling in, which if hypothetically 80% of the model range is electric, would be plenty of ICE manual cars that BMW could build.

Isn't the M2 almost 50/50 take rate between manual and DCT? Why lose out on that market share?
That market you speak of is a drop in the bucket compared to the more mainstream cars BMW sell so I'm nowhere as confident as you are that they will keep making it available past the G87 LCI (EOP 2029 I believe? ).

While the take rate is quite high in the US for manual M's which is wonderful, I can also point out that the new M3/4 are not available with a manual in some pretty big markets such as the UK and China.

We've already seen AMG announcing they're going with PHEVs imminently, I have a hard time believing that in almost 10 years, the M2/3/4 will not follow same path. At that point, would they develop an iteration of the S58 with a manual that's a PHEV at the same time? Or maybe make the Comp PHEV and base regular ICE?

Maybe I'm being a little pessimistic, but I think the time for the type of cars I grew up loving is coming to an end. Hope to be proven wrong.
__________________
Current:
16 F82 M4 GTS, Black Sapphire/Black, DCT
08 E92 M3, Sparkling Graphite/Bamboo Beige, 6MT
07 E85 Z4M Roadster, Alpine White/Red, 6MT
99 E36 M3, Techno Violet/Dove Grey, 6MT
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2021, 01:27 PM   #632
Sublime00
Banned
1129
Rep
662
Posts

Drives: Car
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Ny

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sublime00 View Post
Why would this be the last M car with a manual?

I think BMW will keep making a manual M car as long if there's a market for one. As long as the net emissions by the manufacturer meet whatever standard is set by the country they're selling in, which if hypothetically 80% of the model range is electric, would be plenty of ICE manual cars that BMW could build.

Isn't the M2 almost 50/50 take rate between manual and DCT? Why lose out on that market share?
That market you speak of is a drop in the bucket compared to the more mainstream cars BMW sell so I'm nowhere as confident as you are that they will keep making it available past the G87 LCI (EOP 2029 I believe? ).

While the take rate is quite high in the US for manual M's which is wonderful, I can also point out that the new M3/4 are not available with a manual in some pretty big markets such as the UK and China.

We've already seen AMG announcing they're going with PHEVs imminently, I have a hard time believing that in almost 10 years, the M2/3/4 will not follow same path. At that point, would they develop an iteration of the S58 with a manual that's a PHEV at the same time? Or maybe make the Comp PHEV and base regular ICE?

Maybe I'm being a little pessimistic, but I think the time for the type of cars I grew up loving is coming to an end. Hope to be proven wrong.
I think there will be a buttload of tech crammed into these cars, so yeah in that sense cars won't be like the cars you/we may have grown up with, they'll be infinitely more complicated, but I don't see BMW not offering at least one manual sports car option for drivers.

I'll be the optimist.
Appreciate 1
W///7435.50
      04-18-2021, 08:19 PM   #633
mslam02
Second Lieutenant
83
Rep
200
Posts

Drives: 2020 330i M sport
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Louisville

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I have not seen G87 in person yet. The standard 2er G42 uses this
Three Car mix in its structure. I have learned this is expensive to complete but are doing it in regards to the goodwill brought by the M2. ( See they can be nice)
Had they not then the whole 2er Would have been driven by its front wheels.
One quote I have heard is that it's a Z4 Coupe.
What do you think then, the chances of seeing an LCI Z4 manual, or Z4M car since its on the same CLAR platform?
Appreciate 0
      04-18-2021, 10:24 PM   #634
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mslam02 View Post
What do you think then, the chances of seeing an LCI Z4 manual, or Z4M car since its on the same CLAR platform?
Probably 0 because the Z4 (predictably) sold like -5 units .

People don't want a tourer from BMW. It should have driven like the Supra and been available with a manual and it would have done better. Still, it's a dying segment and they would never beat Porsche anyway.
Appreciate 1
      04-19-2021, 05:12 PM   #635
SCOTT26
Major General
SCOTT26's Avatar
5305
Rep
5,824
Posts

Drives: A big F-off German Truck.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mslam02 View Post
What do you think then, the chances of seeing an LCI Z4 manual, or Z4M car since its on the same CLAR platform?
Zero.
__________________
The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2021, 06:24 PM   #636
Fugly M3
Major General
Fugly M3's Avatar
4903
Rep
5,050
Posts

Drives: 2023 M3CX
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mslam02 View Post
What do you think then, the chances of seeing an LCI Z4 manual, or Z4M car since its on the same CLAR platform?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Probably 0 because the Z4 (predictably) sold like -5 units .

People don't want a tourer from BMW. It should have driven like the Supra and been available with a manual and it would have done better. Still, it's a dying segment and they would never beat Porsche anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Zero.
A slightly detuned S58 (a la G87 M2 variant) with a 6MT in a Supra though...there's a beast! Sadly, that's too obvious for BMW to green light.
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2021, 02:07 AM   #637
Karmic Man
Lieutenant Colonel
Karmic Man's Avatar
Australia
1996
Rep
1,759
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: World

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F8SEVEN View Post
A slightly detuned S58 (a la G87 M2 variant) with a 6MT in a Supra though...there's a beast! Sadly, that's too obvious for BMW to green light.
A 718 Spyder fighter...

Too niche for the current guys wielding the big stick I guess

Spending on EVs and Hybrids are what’s keeping them in the job
Appreciate 1
Fugly M34902.50
      04-22-2021, 07:32 PM   #638
BMWGirlFL
Colonel
BMWGirlFL's Avatar
6233
Rep
2,344
Posts

Drives: Z4 M40i
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Unlike Current Model, 2023 BMW M2 to Get 50:50 Weight Distribution
Whether you’re on the fence about the huge nostrils of the latest BMW M3 and M4 or not, there is no denying that their performance is the highest as it has ever been.
Even without the addition of the M xDrive all-wheel-drive system, which is not yet available for Competition models, the two sports cars are way faster than their predecessors while also offering a high level of driver involvement thanks to the perfect 50:50 weight distribution and the availability of a manual transmission.
The M2, on the other hand, has always been the sweetheart of M purists, who always saw it as a 2002 Turbo revival in almost every sense, especially when compared to its more bloated big brothers.
BMW knows this, which is why the 2023 BMW M2 is likely to become the most M car of the third millennium, and probably the last old-school BMW before the rise of the electrics.
Unlike the recently out of production M2 Competition, which has a 53:47 weight distribution on the front and rear axle, its replacement will get a perfect 50:50 one thanks to a host of modifications.
This is apparently one of the reasons why pre-production models of the model have been caught testing in the real world as early as 2020, over two years before the car is supposed to go on sale.
In theory, the new M2 should be easy to develop since it’s based on a shortened platform used by the current M4, and it will even sport a detuned version of the same powertrain, but the perfect weight distribution is harder to replicate in a much shorter vehicle.
Rumors are saying that the CS-only CFRP roof will be standard on the M2, alongside other more subtle mods to bring the front end weight down.
Speaking of powertrain, the model will use the same 3.0-liter twin-turbocharged inline-six, codenamed S58B30T0 in the current BMW M3, M4 and soon to be facelifted X3 M and X4 M.
With around 420 horsepower and 550 Nm (406 lb-ft) of torque at its disposal, sent to the rear wheels via either a six-speed manual or an 8-speed automatic transmission, the 2023 M2 will simply improve the recipe used by its predecessor in this department.
Future M2 CS and Competition versions are expected to get around 20 horsepower more, and there are even rumors of an M2 CSL, following in the footsteps of the upcoming M4 CSL.
Name:  1.jpg
Views: 897
Size:  315.1 KB

Name:  unlike-current-model-2023-bmw-m2-to-get-5050-weight-distribution_33.jpg
Views: 1547
Size:  309.6 KB

More pics:
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/u...on-159858.html

Last edited by BMWGirlFL; 04-22-2021 at 07:42 PM..
Appreciate 2
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:56 PM.




g87
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST