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      09-26-2020, 03:38 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Numbers are tricky to compare though as we know, they depend on your market, your options, your model year etc.

More important is how the car carry the weight, how it can be felt. The E30 to E36 was very noticeable, more so than any other generational change.

For the G8X we don't know how an equally equipped F8X feel or what the scales will show. Maybe it's not even noticeable and maybe it is. At minimum way too early to judge as harshly as being done in this thread IMO.

And as one of the mods commented, the G8X does have at least one unique factory options to lower the weight in the CF bucket seats.
Someone less lazy than I should compile power to weight ratio changes from generation to generation. True, the F80 was an anomaly, it went down in weight and went up in power (and improved dramatically in the power delivery band). But each generation had significant power gains to make up for the weight gain. The G80 gained 3-500 lbs for 30hp over the F8X CS.

Edit - found this article.


https://www.redline360.com/garage/bm...ate-comparison

The G80 Non-comp weighs 4102lbs and has 480hp. That's 8.56 lb/hp. The F80 had 8.2 lbs/hp!

The G80 is the only one that has less hp per pound than the previous generation! Wow! I honestly thought it was just not going to be as big an improvement as the others, not a downgrade.
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      09-26-2020, 04:02 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
Most E30 M3's weighed like 2950lbs with full fuel/driver.

E36 M3's weighed like 3200lbs with full fuel/driver.

Not exactly 500lbs.

Let's use some owner weighed numbers to give reference to the weight gains (I did forum searches for each of these weights with 160lb driver and full gas)

E30 M3: 2950lbs
E36 M3: 3200lbs
E46 M3: 3450lbs
E92 M3: 3740lbs
F82 M3: 3750lbs
G82 M3: 4,102lbs (BMW Published numbers with Comp & RWD **Not AWD even...** + 160lb driver)
G82 M3 AWD: 4,302lbs (This is a guess, but no way AWD doesn't at least add 200lbs)

I feel like the weight gains (pre G8X) made sense given these are ///M models dating back almost 30 years. But to gain 450-500lbs with ONLY a RWD model (not AWD weight even, lord have mercy on us all lmao)
It’s interesting how rumors spread quickly and with each new post the G80 weight keeps going up ... Guys, I get it, I am also upset about the gain in weight but let’s not over panic! The G80 M3 Curb weight with a 6 speed manual comes in at 3840 pounds including full tank of gas and all other fluids which is not that bad considering how big the new G80 is (This figure might also include a 165 pound driver as per EU, not entirely sure). An all wheel drive version will not add more than another 100 pounds which no one will even notice... What you will notice however is the steering feel which will most likely be terrible in an AWD G80, (that you can almost bet your ass on!).

Last edited by av.7447; 09-26-2020 at 04:09 AM..
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      09-26-2020, 04:07 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Someone less lazy than I should compile power to weight ratio changes from generation to generation. True, the F80 was an anomaly, it went down in weight and went up in power (and improved dramatically in the power delivery band). But each generation had significant power gains to make up for the weight gain. The G80 gained 3-500 lbs for 30hp over the F8X CS.

Edit - found this article.


https://www.redline360.com/garage/bm...ate-comparison

The G80 Non-comp weighs 4102lbs and has 480hp. That's 8.56 lb/hp. The F80 had 8.2 lbs/hp!

The G80 is the only one that has less hp per pound than the previous generation! Wow! I honestly thought it was just not going to be as big an improvement as the others, not a downgrade.
Here are some E30 numbers to complete the generations.

Engine: 2.3-liter inline 4-Cylinder
Horsepower: 192
Torque: 177 lb-ft
0-60: 6.5 seconds
Top Speed: 146 mph
Weight: 2,645 lbs
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      09-26-2020, 04:16 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av.7447 View Post
It’s interesting how rumors spread quickly and with each new post the G80 weight keeps going up ... Guys, I get it, I am also upset about the gain in weight but let’s not over panic! The G80 M3 Curb weight with a 6 speed manual comes in at 3840 pounds including full tank of gas and all other fluids which is not that bad considering how big the new G80 is (This figure might also include a 165 pound driver as per EU, not entirely sure). An all wheel drive version will not add more than another 100 pounds which no one will even notice... What you will notice however is the steering feel which will most likely be terrible in an AWD G80, (that you can almost bet your ass on!).
The F82 MT was listed at 3625 lbs at bmwusa.com before it was removed. So that’s a 215 lbs difference to the G82 MT. Spend $3k on the bucket seats and you are below 200 lbs difference and at less weight gain than all generational shifts prior except to F8X.
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      09-26-2020, 08:40 AM   #93
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The G8X not only weighs more, it also carries a big portion of that extra weight on the front axle. Using data from the Auto Motor und Sport test of the DCT F80 (they use accurate corner scales for their test data) and assuming the G80 press release is data accurate:

G80 -> 3,890lb -> 53.1%/46.9% -> 2,066lb/1,824lb
F80 -> 3,582lb -> 52.1%/47.9% -> 1,866lb/1,716lb

So the G80 weighs 308lb more and carries 200lb more weight on the front axle than the F80. No wonder they had to widen the front tires .

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...hnische-daten/
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      09-26-2020, 08:48 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
The F82 MT was listed at 3625 lbs at bmwusa.com before it was removed. So that’s a 215 lbs difference to the G82 MT. Spend $3k on the bucket seats and you are below 200 lbs difference and at less weight gain than all generational shifts prior except to F8X.
Not sure if you're trying to convince yourself more than others here...
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      09-26-2020, 09:07 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Not sure if you're trying to convince yourself more than others here...
Pot - kettle.
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      09-26-2020, 09:17 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Pot - kettle.
I am trying to be as factual as possible, quoting real data sources and not trying to pick extremes.

For example, C&D weighed their 6MT M3 at 3,580lb, an actual data point, which is less than the 3,625lb you quote.

A few more data points, my own personal cars put on corner weighing scales (all weighed with 95%+ fuel):
  • 3,551lb 2002 E46 M3 6MT
  • 3,718lb 2008 E92 M3 DCT
  • 3,588lb 2015 F82 M4 DCT
  • 3,528lb 2019 F82 M4cs DCT

I guess we'll have to wait and see when independent publications start putting the G8X on scales. We can only hope they come out lighter than the press release numbers.
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      09-26-2020, 09:27 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I am trying to be as factual as possible, quoting real data sources and not trying to pick extremes.

For example, C&D weighed their 6MT M3 at 3,580lb, an actual data point, which is less than the 3,625lb you quote.

I guess we'll have to wait and see when independent publications start putting the G8X on scales. We can only hope they come out lighter than the press release numbers.
So do I, I’m trying get apples to apples by using the latest weight standards for both cars. Do you know that the C&D weighed cars fulfills the same standards as the G8X cars are weight against? Same options etc? No you don’t.
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      09-26-2020, 09:34 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Do you know that the C&D weighed cars fulfills the same standards as the G8X cars are weight against? Same options etc? No you don’t.
True, albeit that C&D car was pretty much loaded, but also with CCB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
So do I, I’m trying get apples to apples by using the latest weight standards for both cars.
Vehicle weights in general are quite an elusive matter since how the cars are specced can create significant variations. We are looking at ranges here. Just picking the extremes does not give an accurate depiction. My best guess right now is that the RWD G8X weighs in the range of 200~325lb more than the F8X. That is more of an increase than most generations went through (you are right the E30->E36 was quite a jump).
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      09-26-2020, 09:38 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
True, albeit that C&D car was pretty much loaded, but also with CCB. Vehicle weights in general are quite an elusive matter since how the cars are specced can create significant variations. We are looking at ranges here. Just picking the extremes does not give an accurate depiction. My best guess right now is that the G8X weighs in the range of 200~325lb more than the F8X. That is more of an increase than most generations went through (you are right the E30->E36 was quite a jump).
200-325, we agree and anyone calling out one end as fact is looking more for drama than facts. It’s too early for the panic in this thread.

I don’t agree that we can say it’s more increase than most generations at this stage. There’s a reasonable chance it’s in the middle of the pack and very normal/average.
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      09-26-2020, 09:40 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
200-325, we agree and anyone calling out one end as fact is looking more for drama than facts. It’s too early for the panic in this thread.

I don’t agree that we can say it’s more increase than most generations at this stage. There’s a reasonable chance it’s in the middle of the pack and very normal.
That range is big enough for me not to consider the G8X (at least in those release specs).
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      09-26-2020, 09:46 AM   #101
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Let's not try to spin the story... we all expected a 3700 lb car at most... and that is with AWD... they really porked it up.

Is the ZF 8AT heavier than the DCT? Are there any carbon fiber parts like trunk and hood? CF driveshaft? I am sure the car will be a better performer than in the past but that is a serious weight gain... and it will be felt in every day driving. Coming from my M2C, an AWD 8AT G80 would feel like a boat and probably take away from the experience. At 3800 lbs, a C63s (if you do not track the car) becomes a more reasonable option than ever.
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      09-26-2020, 10:22 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Let's not try to spin the story... we all expected a 3700 lb car at most... and that is with AWD... they really porked it up.

Is the ZF 8AT heavier than the DCT? Are there any carbon fiber parts like trunk and hood? CF driveshaft? I am sure the car will be a better performer than in the past but that is a serious weight gain... and it will be felt in every day driving. Coming from my M2C, an AWD 8AT G80 would feel like a boat and probably take away from the experience. At 3800 lbs, a C63s (if you do not track the car) becomes a more reasonable option than ever.
I think the C63S comes in at over 4K lbs, no?

I was expecting 3900-4000 for the AWD car, but looks like it may be a bit more. I think the engine will be quite underrated (real output of 550-560) but I agree you’ll feel the weight here. Given the weight and the 5 inches in length, makes the M5 a decent proposition maybe - especially given the discounts at one point were 15% plus incentives.
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      09-26-2020, 10:48 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I think the C63S comes in at over 4K lbs, no?
Just a smidgen below 4k lbs for the 4-door.
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      09-26-2020, 11:04 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I think the C63S comes in at over 4K lbs, no?

I was expecting 3900-4000 for the AWD car, but looks like it may be a bit more. I think the engine will be quite underrated (real output of 550-560) but I agree you’ll feel the weight here. Given the weight and the 5 inches in length, makes the M5 a decent proposition maybe - especially given the discounts at one point were 15% plus incentives.
4134

https://carbuzz.com/cars/mercedes-benz/amg-c63-coupe

I recall seeing ~4100 for the C63S on the official website as well.
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      09-26-2020, 11:27 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Let's not try to spin the story... we all expected a 3700 lb car at most... and that is with AWD... they really porked it up.

Is the ZF 8AT heavier than the DCT? Are there any carbon fiber parts like trunk and hood? CF driveshaft? I am sure the car will be a better performer than in the past but that is a serious weight gain... and it will be felt in every day driving. Coming from my M2C, an AWD 8AT G80 would feel like a boat and probably take away from the experience. At 3800 lbs, a C63s (if you do not track the car) becomes a more reasonable option than ever.
Why would you be expecting 3,700lbs for the AWD version when we have known since early 2019 that the M340xdrive is a few pounds shy of 4,000lbs. Seems unlikely that they would have cut 300lbs from the M340.
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      09-26-2020, 11:43 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Weight is relative, power to weight and the suspension changes to improve cornering are imperative.

I want this car to be 3600 lbs like everyone else, but the power to weight is better than any other car in BMWs lineup to date (other than maybe a tuned M2CS) and guarantee the 80wtq or so improvement over the prior gen will more than offset the weight gain.

Feel free to prove me wrong here but the single digit percent gain in weight i would guess is offset by the double digit percent gain in torque...

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1760674
The extra power may offset the weight in terms of acceleration, but how is the car going to feel throwing it into a curve, under aggressive braking, etc.? BMW is going to have to do some major suspension magic to make this car feel nimble. Not to mention the length and width. The car is the size and weight of an E60 535.

In fairness, my E92 felt heavy, and I was always aware of its size - particularly at slower speeds. My F80, at roughly same weight, feels a little lighter on its feet -but also feels "big" in the mountains or lower speeds. Just gonna have to drive the G80 to know.

BTW - the power to weight for the G80 is not better than everything else in the BMW lineup. The M5 is better. That doesn't necessarily make the M5 universally more desirable. Some prefer something smaller and more dynamic.

Last edited by scoale; 09-26-2020 at 11:56 AM..
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      09-26-2020, 11:47 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
The extra power may offset the weight in terms of acceleration, but how is the car going to feel throwing it into a curve, under aggressive braking, etc.? BMW is going to have to do some major suspension magic to make this car feel nimble. Not to mention the length and width. The car is the size and weight of an E60 535.

In fairness, my E92 felt heavy, and I was always aware of its size - particularly at slower speeds. My F80, at roughly same weight, feels a little lighter on its feet -but also feels "big" in the mountains or lower speeds. Just gonna have to drive the G80 to know.
Exactly...handling is where I worry the most about this car. The youtube testing on the Ring shows pretty minimal body roll and tight cornering FWIW so i'm cautiously optimistic but acknowledge it very well may handle like an overweight overpowered pig
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      09-26-2020, 11:48 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I think the C63S comes in at over 4K lbs, no?

I was expecting 3900-4000 for the AWD car, but looks like it may be a bit more. I think the engine will be quite underrated (real output of 550-560) but I agree you’ll feel the weight here. Given the weight and the 5 inches in length, makes the M5 a decent proposition maybe - especially given the discounts at one point were 15% plus incentives.
4134

https://carbuzz.com/cars/mercedes-benz/amg-c63-coupe

I recall seeing ~4100 for the C63S on the official website as well.
sedan is lighter. 38xx lbs. I believe it's because they left the extra bracing in coupe from the convertible.
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      09-26-2020, 11:50 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by elitex View Post
sedan is lighter. 38xx lbs. I believe it's because they left the extra bracing in coupe from the convertible.
As someone with both the C63S and an S58 X5M, i want to hear your opinion on how you think a S58 performs in a 4k lbs package similar to your C63! as well as vs the F8x

Very similar power ouputs and weights for C63S vs G8x...
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      09-26-2020, 12:05 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Very similar power ouputs and weights for C63S vs G8x...
And that make this very interesting. Personally I put my money on M over AMG street cars any day on the track. Now with comparable weight and power the M car’s chassis advantage should shine clearer than ever...or not...drum roll
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