[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

We bought our 992 GT3 at list price with no increase.
The uninformed comments are those who think the crazy rules of the American market apply to the whole world and make worldwide statements, but there is life overseas as well.

If you can get a new one here, the dealership isn't allowed to sell above MSRP but you have no chance of getting on the list, unless you have a great relationship with the OPC. So your only option is to pay massive overs for a used one.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by reNT

this csl is nothing more than a marketing gimmick where most of its handling performance improvement comes from the more aggressive tyres which one could fit on the regular m4. Good to see some of the reviews agree without being biased.

Come on man, I could ask you what you drive or even offer you a ride in the CSL when we receive it but I don't think it's worth the effort you've been bashing on it for while now. What for ?

I remember I was also bashing on the M2CS (I owned an OG M2) all day long and I was proven very wrong, small differences added up can make wonders..

[ChrisM4]

As a '21 M4 manual owner the CSL had some real challenges from the start:

- The handling and overall performance of the M4 is already incredibly high for a road car. The performance "Floor" is already ridiculous so the margins are smaller for the CSL to improve upon. Especially for street driving
- The torque converter transmission will always be a compromise no matter how fast it shifts. It doesn't compare to the feel of the previous gen DCT and it's nowhere near as good as a PDK. (Imagine a 550hp manual CSL with a proper race clutch and CDV delete!)
- Since they've tossed the rear seats they should have done a factory roll bar, fire extinguisher, proper wing, carbon fiber wheels, cup 2 tires with carbon ceramic brakes standard.
- Noise regs have likely killed the opportunity for a proper sounding exhaust in the EU which is a shame
- The carbon trunk and hood are cool but really it's not special enough for the CSL designation in my opinion. (Meaning they should have done more like mentioned above)
- They had an opportunity to reprogram the dash screens for the CSL to add additional configurability and also readability for track use and didn't go that route. (At least not that I'm aware of)

I think the Top Gear review is pretty accurate…It's an impressive and super fast car but it has its compromises/flaws.

[Davil]

Isn't that new Corvette Z07 thing better than a GT3? Much faster and sounds way better. I wonder if Porsche forums are full of Corvette folk now?

Silly isn't it.

[M4Tejas]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

I had a Porsche Panamera S (V8) and the PDK was the one thing that made me get rid of it. When I would do something unexpected, like nail the throttle when it was preparing for an upshift, and I wanted a downshift, it would take seconds - not nanoseconds, but seconds - to down shift and get out of the way of whatever it was that was about to run into me. It was the first car that I ever owned with paddles, which I rarely used because I'd click the wrong one about 50% of the time, so I left it in auto mode.



I don't think everyone knows that, but they should. What fun is a car that is designed for the track, but is unbearable for the drive to and from the track? Not all of us want to own and store and drive a truck & trailer.



True that. I sold my M4 for more than MSRP earlier this year.



OMG yes. No more for me.

Even though my track days are mostly behind me, I still think about buying an M3 again - this time it will be exactly what I want, not just whatever I was able to get. Don't need the CS or CSL or any of that fancy stuff. 473 horsepower is adequate for my needs.

I would order a 6 speed RWD if I was to do it again. WE used to call them "strippos"

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

As a '21 M4 manual owner the CSL had some real challenges from the start:

- The handling and overall performance of the M4 is already incredibly high for a road car. The performance "Floor" is already ridiculous so the margins are smaller for the CSL to improve upon. Especially for street driving
- The torque converter transmission will always be a compromise no matter how fast it shifts. It doesn't compare to the feel of the previous gen DCT and it's nowhere near as good as a PDK. (Imagine a 550hp manual CSL with a proper race clutch and CDV delete!)
- Since they've tossed the rear seats they should have done a factory roll bar, fire extinguisher, proper wing, carbon fiber wheels, cup 2 tires with carbon ceramic brakes standard.
- Noise regs have likely killed the opportunity for a proper sounding exhaust in the EU which is a shame
- The carbon trunk and hood are cool but really it's not special enough for the CSL designation in my opinion. (Meaning they should have done more like mentioned above)
- They had an opportunity to reprogram the dash screens for the CSL to add additional configurability and also readability for track use and didn't go that route. (At least not that I'm aware of)

I think the Top Gear review is pretty accurate…It's an impressive and super fast car but it has its compromises/flaws.

I think the Top Gear review is trash. I am aware of the writer and he is not the type of guy who would write anything favourable about a heavy car. He'd also be annoyed by the fact that CSL is used in its name.

Steve Sutcliffe is a good judge of this car to me. He's not wedded to ideals, he just tests the car as is and most of the time I agree with him. (He does use the term dynamic repertoire too much and also eye watering but if you can look past that what he says is usually very fair). Dickie Meaden and Henry Catchpole are usually most closely aligned to my way of thinking but they didn't test the car for EVO, Jethro did and he's a bit hit and miss compared to what I usually like.

Matt Saunders is also usually a good judge of what I'm looking for in a car. His review of the GR86 for example was excellent!

The ride handling balance according to pretty much all of the reviews is better in the CSL than the standard M4 and noticeably so, with one reviewer saying that that alone is probably worth the price of entry.

Personally, I've had a car with harnesses and a cage (GT3 Clubsport). God I loved that car, absolutely awesome bit of kit but you know how many times I actually used the harnesses? Twice. And the cage was mostly a pain because you could not use the space in the back (good for hanging a camera from though - care to guess how many times I did that? Zero).

The route that BMW took with this car is very clever. Make it fun on the road but also make sure it really performs well on track. Stiffen it with a stronger rear bulkhead and tie the front down with a strut brace. Give it some excellent seats but keep the creature comforts that make a car everyday useable. In effect make it a car that owners can actually use. I'd happily use it for trips across the continent with my Mrs for example, stop off at the 'ring for a few hot laps and be on my way. Perfect! Could I use a standard M4 for that? Of course I could and it would be awesome too! But it will NEVER be as special as the CSL and it will NEVER be the fastest production BMW around the 'ring.

One final point, I've driven cars with auto transmissions as well as DCT, and once upon a time, there was a chasm of difference between the two but these days, I honestly can't tell the difference in terms of the speed of the shift. Ferrari once worked out that if a car changed gear in less than 0.2s, the human brain would perceive that as instantaneous… so… yeah…

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

I think the Top Gear review is trash. I am aware of the writer and he is not the type of guy who would write anything favourable about a heavy car. He'd also be annoyed by the fact that CSL is used in its name.

Steve Sutcliffe is a good judge of this car to me. He's not wedded to ideals, he just tests the car as is and most of the time I agree with him. (He does use the term dynamic repertoire too much and also eye watering but if you can look past that what he says is usually very fair). Dickie Meaden and Henry Catchpole are usually most closely aligned to my way of thinking but they didn't test the car for EVO, Jethro did and he's a bit hit and miss compared to what I usually like.

Matt Saunders is also usually a good judge of what I'm looking for in a car. His review of the GR86 for example was excellent!

The ride handling balance according to pretty much all of the reviews is better in the CSL than the standard M4 and noticeably so, with one reviewer saying that that alone is probably worth the price of entry.

Personally, I've had a car with harnesses and a cage (GT3 Clubsport). God I loved that car, absolutely awesome bit of kit but you know how many times I actually used the harnesses? Twice. And the cage was mostly a pain because you could not use the space in the back (good for hanging a camera from though - care to guess how many times I did that? Zero).

The route that BMW took with this car is very clever. Make it fun on the road but also make sure it really performs well on track. Stiffen it with a stronger rear bulkhead and tie the front down with a strut brace. Give it some excellent seats but keep the creature comforts that make a car everyday useable. In effect make it a car that owners can actually use. I'd happily use it for trips across the continent with my Mrs for example, stop off at the 'ring for a few hot laps and be on my way. Perfect! Could I use a standard M4 for that? Of course I could and it would be awesome too! But it will NEVER be as special as the CSL and it will NEVER be the fastest production BMW around the 'ring.

One final point, I've driven cars with auto transmissions as well as DCT, and once upon a time, there was a chasm of difference between the two but these days, I honestly can't tell the difference in terms of the speed of the shift. Ferrari once worked out that if a car changed gear in less than 0.2s, the human brain would perceive that as instantaneous… so… yeah…

Who would write anything favorable about a heavy sports car?

2004 M3 E46 CSL: 360hp 1385kg (-110kg with 4 seats) 7:50min Ring time with cup tires (-23s ove the regular M3 E46 with street tires) 85k €/58k £ when new (+25k €/+17k £)
2004 GT3 996: 381hp 1380kg Ring time 7:54min with cup tires (-23s over the Carrera with street tires) 100k €/68k £ when new

2022 M4 G82: 550hp 1625kg (-110kg with 2 seats) 7:15min Ring time with cup R tires (-15s over the M4 Competition with street tires) 165k €/128k £ (+68k € /+49k £)
2022 GT3 992: 510hp 1435kg 6:55min Ring time with cup R tires (-35s over the Carrera S with street tires) 179k €/135k £ (+50k €/+32k £).

Before you could have the performance of the GT3 with the usability of the M3, now you can only dream of both with the M4 CSL.

Last but not least, if you get an M4 Competition with CCB, Cup R tires and CSL gearbox and engine tuning, you get 80% of a CSL at a fraction of the price, whereas the GT3 is a completely different car from any other 992 (different engine, different gearbox, different chassis, different aerodynamics, different tire and brake sizes, different electronics, etc.), you can't get any of the GT3 upgrades on a Carrera. This is what I call exclusivity.

It seems that someone did their homework better than the other, who instead just pumped out hp, kg and money, and and Top Gear just put it bluntly.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Who would write anything favorable about a heavy sports car?

2004 M3 E46 CSL: 360hp 1385kg (-110kg with 4 seats) 7:50min Ring time with cup tires (-23s ove the regular M3 E46 with street tires) 85k €/58k £ when new (+25k €/+17k £)
2004 GT3 996: 381hp 1380kg Ring time 7:54min with cup tires (-23s over the Carrera with street tires) 100k €/68k £ when new

2022 M4 G82: 550hp 1625kg (-110kg with 2 seats) 7:15min Ring time with cup R tires (-15s over the M4 Competition with street tires) 165k €/128k £ (+68k € /+49k £)
2022 GT3 992: 510hp 1435kg 6:55min Ring time with cup R tires (-35s over the Carrera S with street tires) 179k €/135k £ (+50k €/+32k £).

Before you could have the performance of the GT3 with the usability of the M3, now you can only dream of both with the M4 CSL.

Last but not least, if you get an M4 Competition with CCB, Cup R tires and CSL gearbox and engine tuning, you get 80% of a CSL at a fraction of the price, whereas the GT3 is a completely different car from any other 992 (different engine, different gearbox, different chassis, different aerodynamics, different tire and brake sizes, different electronics, etc.), you can't get any of the GT3 upgrades on a Carrera. This is what I call exclusivity.

It seems that someone did their homework better than the other, who instead just pumped out hp, kg and money, and and Top Gear just put it bluntly.

Haha - the usual nonsense - "you can mod another car and get it to perform better than a stock car". What a dumb argument!

Also, the M3 has changed significantly in size since the days of the E46, the G82 is a far bigger and more luxurious car and for its size is actually pretty light - look at the weight of the E39 M5 for comparison.

The 911 has also grown but it is effectively still a small bespoke sportscar - you can't buy a 2.0d diesel family version. I believe that you are aware that the 4 series is available as a family (and wallet) friendly 2.0d. So although the weight of the GT3 has increased, it's nowhere near as much as the increase in weight for the G82, where the platform has been built to accommodate BEV, hybrid tech, diesels, petrol-engined turbos and 4WD and offer far more luxury than it did back in 2003.

So this is not a "like for like" comparison. Also the 110kg weight saving of the E46 M3 that everybody is talking about included removal of the AC and entertainment system - At least 85% of owners added this back to their cars, so very few cars will have this 110Kg saving. The M4 CSL is 100kg lighter including AC and its infotainment system.

Finally, I'm not sure how most people use reviews but for me, it's not about confirmation bias. It's about reading a review from a source I trust, who usually has similar opinions to me and deciding if what they write is aligned to what I want. Final judgment is reserved until I've actually driven the thing myself. From what I've read the M4 CSL has the potential to be just what the doctor ordered.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Haha - the usual nonsense - "you can mod another car and get it to perform better than a stock car". What a dumb argument!

Also, the M3 has changed significantly in size since the days of the E46, the G82 is a far bigger and more luxurious car and for its size is actually pretty light - look at the weight of the E39 M5 for comparison.

The 911 has also grown but it is effectively still a small bespoke sportscar - you can't buy a 2.0d diesel family version. I believe that you are aware that the 4 series is available as a family (and wallet) friendly 2.0d. So although the weight of the GT3 has increased, it's nowhere near as much as the increase in weight for the G82, where the platform has been built to accommodate BEV, hybrid tech, diesels, petrol-engined turbos and 4WD and offer far more luxury than it did back in 2003.

So this is not a "like for like" comparison. Also the 110kg weight saving of the E46 M3 that everybody is talking about included removal of the AC and entertainment system - At least 85% of owners added this back to their cars, so very few cars will have this 110Kg saving. The M4 CSL is 100kg lighter including AC and its infotainment system.

Finally, I'm not sure how most people use reviews but for me, it's not about confirmation bias. It's about reading a review from a source I trust, who usually has similar opinions to me and deciding if what they write is aligned to what I want. Final judgment is reserved until I've actually driven the thing myself. From what I've read the M4 CSL has the potential to be just what the doctor ordered.

You're missing (or not wanting to see) the point.
You can modify any car and improve its performance, but you can't have the GT3 powertrain or chassis on a regular 992, whereas you can on the M4 as it's just an updated M4, not a car completely redesigned from scratch. That's what makes a car truly unique and exclusive and justifies the increased price, unfortunately I don't see any of that on the CSL (and apparently neither Top Gear does).

Finally, nobody ordered Bmw to get so big and heavy, unfortunately you'll pay for that on the sportier versions which, due to physical limitations, can only offer slightly better performance than the regular ones. And that's a shame considering what Bmw had accustomed us to with the CSL brand.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

You're missing (or not wanting to see) the point.
You can modify any car and improve its performance, but you can't have the GT3 powertrain or chassis on a regular 992, whereas you can on the M4 as it's just an updated M4, not a car completely redesigned from scratch. That's what makes a car truly unique and exclusive and justifies the increased price, unfortunately I don't see any of that on the CSL (and apparently neither Top Gear does).

Finally, nobody ordered Bmw to get so big and heavy, unfortunately you'll pay for that on the sportier versions which, due to physical limitations, can only offer slightly better performance than the regular ones. And that's a shame considering what Bmw had accustomed us to with the CSL brand.

You can't get the chassis of a CSL on an M4 - the rear is completely different and the front isn't exactly the same either and neither are an option you can spec. Of course you can mod it, but you can mod a 911 with GT3 parts too if you want? You can't get the unique electronics on the CSL on an M4 either.

As for the engine, well it was designed for their GT3 race car - so the fact that it's available in a standard M4 is incredible. However, you can not get the M4 engine in a normal 4 series - the M4 has been re-designed completely and the CSL takes that up a notch.

As for the size and weight of the BMW M4, sadly, you're wrong both customers and regulations did ask for this, by demanding more options, more space, greater luxury and increased safety for their cars. These come at a cost and that cost is both size and weight.

Finally, the E46 M3 CSL was an incredible machine but it wasn't designed completely from scratch either, it was an enhancement of the standard M3, which at the time was one of the reasons it didn't get very good ratings - sound familiar?

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

You can't get the chassis of a CSL on an M4 - the rear is completely different and the front isn't exactly the same either and neither are an option you can spec. Of course you can mod it, but you can mod a 911 with GT3 parts too if you want? You can't get the unique electronics on the CSL on an M4 either.

As for the engine, well it was designed for their GT3 race car - so the fact that it's available in a standard M4 is incredible. However, you can not get the M4 engine in a normal 4 series - the M4 has been re-designed completely and the CSL takes that up a notch.

As for the size and weight of the BMW M4, sadly, you're wrong both customers and regulations did ask for this, by demanding more options, more space, greater luxury and increased safety for their cars. These come at a cost and that cost is both size and weight.

Finally, the E46 M3 CSL was an incredible machine but it wasn't designed completely from scratch either, it was an enhancement of the standard M3, which at the time was one of the reasons it didn't get very good ratings - sound familiar?

Sure, but the E46 CSL was slightly more expensive than the regular M3 and significantly faster while maintaining the same usability, whereas the G82 CSL is much more expensive than the regular M4C but only slightly faster because of the weight, plus losing the rear seats. It is quite a failure.

And how long will it be before it's possible to code all the M4 CSL's electronics into the regular M4, like the previous M4 GTS? Of course it won't turn a normal M4 into a CSL, but it won't be that far.
I'm not sure it's possible to code the double wishbone suspension into a Carrera instead

PS the demand for more options, more space, more luxury and more safety is also about the 911 (especially with the 992), not just the M4, but Porsche has not become a fat lady, it's just about how much effort they put into their work.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

I think the Top Gear review is trash. I am aware of the writer and he is not the type of guy who would write anything favourable about a heavy car. He'd also be annoyed by the fact that CSL is used in its name.

Steve Sutcliffe is a good judge of this car to me. He's not wedded to ideals, he just tests the car as is and most of the time I agree with him. (He does use the term dynamic repertoire too much and also eye watering but if you can look past that what he says is usually very fair). Dickie Meaden and Henry Catchpole are usually most closely aligned to my way of thinking but they didn't test the car for EVO, Jethro did and he's a bit hit and miss compared to what I usually like.

Matt Saunders is also usually a good judge of what I'm looking for in a car. His review of the GR86 for example was excellent!

The ride handling balance according to pretty much all of the reviews is better in the CSL than the standard M4 and noticeably so, with one reviewer saying that that alone is probably worth the price of entry.

Personally, I've had a car with harnesses and a cage (GT3 Clubsport). God I loved that car, absolutely awesome bit of kit but you know how many times I actually used the harnesses? Twice. And the cage was mostly a pain because you could not use the space in the back (good for hanging a camera from though - care to guess how many times I did that? Zero).

The route that BMW took with this car is very clever. Make it fun on the road but also make sure it really performs well on track. Stiffen it with a stronger rear bulkhead and tie the front down with a strut brace. Give it some excellent seats but keep the creature comforts that make a car everyday useable. In effect make it a car that owners can actually use. I'd happily use it for trips across the continent with my Mrs for example, stop off at the 'ring for a few hot laps and be on my way. Perfect! Could I use a standard M4 for that? Of course I could and it would be awesome too! But it will NEVER be as special as the CSL and it will NEVER be the fastest production BMW around the 'ring.

One final point, I've driven cars with auto transmissions as well as DCT, and once upon a time, there was a chasm of difference between the two but these days, I honestly can't tell the difference in terms of the speed of the shift. Ferrari once worked out that if a car changed gear in less than 0.2s, the human brain would perceive that as instantaneous… so… yeah…

You have some good points there but you can immediately tell the difference between a DCT and a torque converter transmission. Shift speed is only one part of the equation. How it feels from a stop, part throttle shifting, downshifting multiple gears, how it feels from a launch. It's all different between the two transmissions.

The CSL is a great car I just don't think it is a true homage to the original and they left a lot on the table.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by FORTWORTHCOWBOY

I would order a 6 speed RWD if I was to do it again. WE used to call them "strippos"

LOL. BTW, your car (incoming?) is what I originally spec'd, in Aventurin Red. Gorgeous.

Hey guys, wasn't the original "CSL" a lightweight 3.0 coupe in the early 70s, AKA the E9? I'll bet the cheapest, slowest, lowest powered BMW made today is still faster and handles and brakes better than that thing did. Technology. And it was a homologation car anyway, not really comparable to the current CSL which is all about marketing.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Sure, but the E46 CSL was slightly more expensive than the regular M3 and significantly faster while maintaining the same usability, whereas the G82 CSL is much more expensive than the regular M4C but only slightly faster because of the weight, plus losing the rear seats. It is quite a failure.

And how long will it be before it's possible to code all the M4 CSL's electronics into the regular M4, like the previous M4 GTS? Of course it won't turn a normal M4 into a CSL, but it won't be that far.
I'm not sure it's possible to code the double wishbone suspension into a Carrera instead

PS the demand for more options, more space, more luxury and more safety is also about the 911 (especially with the 992), not just the M4, but Porsche has not become a fat lady, it's just about how much effort they put into their work.

Back in the day £58k for an M3 was a heck of a lot of money - the base M3 was around £40k IIRC. So nearly a 50% increase on base. The new one is a similar percentage over the base car, so not unreasonable. When you say significantly faster - are you referring to the 'ring time?

You previously made the point that the GT3 had unique electronics, so does the M4 CSL.

I think that you're missing the point that the 911 GT3 is a sports car based on a unique sportscar platform. The 4 series is not a sportscar and it is based on a generic platform that needs to accommodate numerous different configurations, powertrains and body styles. The need to meet all of these requirements is bound to have a far greater impact on its high performance cars than the changes required to meet the regulations with a 911.

[PLF69]

A lot are talking about heritage and stuff with the "CSL" name etc.

I don't know but to me an E46 is an old car, I mean it may have been very good when it was released but driving one today you immediately feel the loose chassis, the flexing suspension, clunky transmission etc.

Old 911 and M3's may be ultra cool and for ppl who had the chance to ride in one in there youth there is definitely a nostalgia element that cannot be replicated but they remain pale at best in performance and refinement compared to newer cars.

It's like my friend's 69 Chevelle SS 396, everyone is litterly drooling at it, it's bad ass, it's powerful, it has a freakin good sound but I got to be honest, the first half mile I rode in it I quickly realised Id never buy an old muscle car except to look at it and start it from time to time. It felt like a total shit box, unsafe and dangerous.

What I want to say is does the new CSL drive great ? Yes ? Alright cool, couldn't care less if it's named GTS, LTW, CSL, Red Label or Scuderia Pista.

Just the fact it's behing compared to the 992 GT3 says a lot, there's no way I am going to compare it to older cars, it just doesn't make sense with all the improvements we've witnessed in car manufacturering.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

You have some good points there but you can immediately tell the difference between a DCT and a torque converter transmission. Shift speed is only one part of the equation. How it feels from a stop, part throttle shifting, downshifting multiple gears, how it feels from a launch. It's all different between the two transmissions.

The CSL is a great car I just don't think it is a true homage to the original and they left a lot on the table.

Generally, I prefer a manual (unless on track) then I don't care about the transmission as long as it's fast. An auto is an auto at the end of the day, no skill required to change gear, just want it to select the gear I want when I want it without blowing up the engine.

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by PLF69

I remember I was also bashing on the M2CS (I owned an OG M2) all day long and I was proven very wrong, small differences added up can make wonders..

So you were one of the "thick skulls" I was trying to explain it to Glad you can admit it after the fact.

It's hard to believe the differences between the M2 CS and the M2C even let alone the OG M2.

The OG M2 does indeed sound better though.

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

You have some good points there but you can immediately tell the difference between a DCT and a torque converter transmission. Shift speed is only one part of the equation. How it feels from a stop, part throttle shifting, downshifting multiple gears, how it feels from a launch. It's all different between the two transmissions.

Guys, this is the transmission in the M4 GT4 moving forward. I think BMW knows what they are doing when making an auto trans.

If you want the best manual / DCT trans BMW, buy the M2 CS.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Back in the day £58k for an M3 was a heck of a lot of money - the base M3 was around £40k IIRC. So nearly a 50% increase on base. The new one is a similar percentage over the base car, so not unreasonable. When you say significantly faster - are you referring to the 'ring time?

You previously made the point that the GT3 had unique electronics, so does the M4 CSL.

I think that you're missing the point that the 911 GT3 is a sports car based on a unique sportscar platform. The 4 series is not a sportscar and it is based on a generic platform that needs to accommodate numerous different configurations, powertrains and body styles. The need to meet all of these requirements is bound to have a far greater impact on its high performance cars than the changes required to meet the regulations with a 911.

Math never lies: the E46 CSL was priced 40% higher than the regular M3 and had similar performance to the GT3 of the time, the current CSL costs 70% more than the M4 Competition (almost 100% in the country where I live) and is tremendously close to the price of the GT3, while the performance is not even close.
There is nothing wrong with the M4 CSL, it is a great car with amazing performance, but unfortunately it does not seem to deserve that logo and be worth that price.

[PLF69]

If your not going to buy/own a CSL why complain about the transmission, suspension, interior etc.

There's only 300 cars in North America anyways so it's not like ppl have a big struggle over buying one..

Things evolve fast, you don't like the new idrive8, boom you can't have an M3 without one now, wait what ? Yes mate only 2 model years with the normal layout. You won't even have time to think about it, you wake up in 2025 and practically every BMW model will have the big screen...

That's what I realised lusting over BMW and Porsche configurator for year, all the cool builds I wanted already don't exist anymore, the CSL is like a special edition rare wine or liquor, it may not be the best wine in the world but when all bottles will be opened its goodbye forever. I don't know if I will keep mine long term but just having the chance to experience/live with it makes me feel lucky.

I also highly doubt one would be well received by all the engeneers who worked on the project coming and telling them it's just a marketing exercise and it ain't any better than a normal M4.

Ppl don't realize all that is involved into making a car like this.

[M4Tejas]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

LOL. BTW, your car (incoming?) is what I originally spec'd, in Aventurin Red. Gorgeous.

Hey guys, wasn't the original "CSL" a lightweight 3.0 coupe in the early 70s, AKA the E9? I'll bet the cheapest, slowest, lowest powered BMW made today is still faster and handles and brakes better than that thing did. Technology. And it was a homologation car anyway, not really comparable to the current CSL which is all about marketing.

7 months in the garage and on the tarmac. CSL aka Batmobile....yea we seen them outside of Hahn Air Base. F4D Phantom Base, 1972. Not that far from "The Ring".......Dieter had a 3.0CS who owned Joy Discotheque in Simmern. People would drive 100's of km's to go there. 4 BOSE 901, 1st gen and 2 BOSE power amps, 250 watts each channel. We sold them at the Hahn Audio Photo Club at Hahn where I worked. The club sounded like an F4 on steroids. Base housing was right on the other side of the tree line where we lived 4 years. One jet came in too low and hit the trees, pilot ejected. I was brushing my teeth. The window glowed brightly like a bomb hit.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Math never lies: the E46 CSL was priced 40% higher than the regular M3 and had similar performance to the GT3 of the time, the current CSL costs 70% more than the M4 Competition (almost 100% in the country where I live) and is tremendously close to the price of the GT3, while the performance is not even close.
There is nothing wrong with the M4 CSL, it is a great car with amazing performance, but unfortunately it does not seem to deserve that logo and be worth that price.

Well in the UK, the only M4 we can get is an M4 competition. That car with no options is c.£80k. The M4 CSL costs c.£126k, so OK 60% more than the car we can get. But it has stuff in it that would bring the price of the M4 Comp close to £100k and it has a load of bespoke stuff that you can't get on the M4 Comp.

E46 CSL didn't have carbon ceramics for example. It was much closer to the M3 at the time which is why it was slated when it first came out.

In effect, the issue that most people have with the CSL is the fact that it's called a CSL, which is just odd. It doesn't matter what it's called. All that matters is - what is it like to drive? And it should be very, very good to drive from what I've seen so far.