[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by xXMPowerXx

Ha!! You trolls come on a BMW forum and you expect everyone to like what you like? Especially a porch!

Ha!

Here’s what I’m smoking and drinking. And what I’m drinking in!!

For sound, try a small displacement, high revving V10 and V12. Don’t forget the doors while you get out of your porch.

Porsche GT products are excellent, but they’re far from the be-all end-all when it comes to cars primarily driven on the street.

Porsche prices their cars appropriately. MSRP is fair. I find the inflated retail prices we usually see for current-gen models are out of step with the reality of what you actually get. Like with iPhones, the market usually comes back to reality on the current one once the new one comes out. (Ask anyone who paid $300k for a new 2016 GT3RS in Ultraviolet.)

I recall spending a good amount of time with the 991.1 GT3 in 2014/2015 and consistently concluding that it was a pretty decent step below my Scuderia in driving and ownership experience, despite the fact that all of the hype at the time was with the Porsche.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by IB M

Yep SMG no good / 6MT swap - might seem like sacrilege but a few have been done.

If I did get one, I'd have to get it done. Apparently they can put it back to stock pretty easily.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Where? I don't know one person in real life who has obtained one at MSRP (…and I've only heard claims about MSRP GT3's online; I'm sure somebody who has already purchased multiple cars from a dealership or is friends with the owner(s) has the best chances). I would wait two years for a GT3 at MSRP. My 992 C2S would serve me just fine until then.

Long time no talk brother. I cannot divulge the dealer but its in the NYC area and I was introduced by someone who has made 11 purchases.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

Long time no talk brother. I cannot divulge the dealer but its in the NYC area and I was introduced by someone who has made 11 purchases.

What's up bro?!? It has definitely been awhile. Those 11 purchases surely paved the way in; easily over a million dollars in sales to that dealership. It's probably closer to two million. My guess is that's probably a VIP customer for sure…….the kind of customer PAG/PCNA calls and asks if they want a 911R, a Sport Classic or a GT3RS.

[Purekoryo]

Originally Posted by masd79

I test drove a gt4 and then came home and drove my m4 g83 and I have to say the m4 is better. The gt4 was manual and was fun to drive, and at the moment it felt amazing especially the screaming 8k rpm shifts, but it felt like a very expensive version of a type R civic or an sti. Again, it was very nice and fun, but i was surprised to feel more drama and fun in my m4. The shifts, speed and even the sound in my m4 felt better… I think many of us are just jaded because it's a P car. Im curios about the gt3 now…I think the g8x is highly underrated because it's a bmw and not a Porsche. Will drive a gt3 soon at PEC here in atlanta.

I don't think you drove the 718 GT4 enough. It's at least a level up on the M3/4 in terms of engagement and fun. And I can't believe you just compared it to an sti or type r which are both suped up econo cars whereas the 718 platform is a pure bred sports car.

When you're used to driving one car and then jumping on another, the bias will be a bit strong toward the one you're used to driving. That's why some car journalists will spend several days before giving a full review on the car.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by Purekoryo

I don't think you drove the 718 GT4 enough. It's at least a level up on the M3/4 in terms of engagement and fun. And I can't believe you just compared it to an sti or type r which are both suped up econo cars whereas the 718 platform is a pure bred sports car.

When you're used to driving one car and then jumping on another, the bias will be a bit strong toward the one you're used to driving. That's why some car journalists will spend several days before giving a full review on the car.

That is true, when I jumped from the 22 M4 to the 18 718 GTS I didn't like it at all, it took a few weeks, two track outings and one or two longer trips to fall in love with it.

What I found lacking in the M4, the 718 did perfectly. But after some time I started to appreciate some aspects of the M4. Ppl argue all day on the forums but you need to really live with the cars to truly understand. I did 7000km in both cars this summer, I literally forced myself to have them has my main daily and now that I am back in our regular dailys (X3 and Atlas) I can say I loved every minute of it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by PLF69

That is true, when I jumped from the 22 M4 to the 18 718 GTS I didn't like it at all, it took a few weeks, two track outings and one or two longer trips to fall in love with it.

What I found lacking in the M4, the 718 did perfectly. But after some time I started to appreciate some aspects of the M4. Ppl argue all day on the forums but you need to really live with the cars to truly understand. I did 7000km in both cars this summer, I literally forced myself to have them has my main daily and now that I am back in our regular dailys (X3 and Atlas) I can say I loved every minute of it.

Absolutely!

[adc]

Originally Posted by Sphygmomanometer

I love the unrivalled bity front end of recent M-cars. The F87 M2 Competition's is mighty, the G8x's even more so. It gives me the confidence to throw any radius corner at it. The (991.2) GT3 is more pedantic. It demands you to be more deliberate and clean with your inputs, breaking, steering, stepping on the go-pedal. It's incredible how not-rear-engined Porsche have made it feel but there are moments, dependening on camber, road surface, tyre temperature, where you can turn the steering wheel without it having an effect on the direction of the nose (at least on Dunlop's not very satisfying Race 2s). What I do like though, is how the GT3 let's you feel the edge of grip at the rear through your bottom (maybe also depending on the tyre). The only problem here is, the G8xs don't feel light, the M2C doesn't feel light. The GT3 feels lighter with its 200-300 kg less.

Speaking of steering. Porsche's steering is supposed to be 'the best' or at least 'very good'. I like that it feels direct and reasonably heavy at speed, almost unassisted but it's not a revelation either. The FK8 Civic Type R's is (almost) on par. The M2C's is a bit 'stiff' by comparison but they're not worlds apart. I have no trouble believing that the 997's hydraulically assisted steering is peak steering. But as I have not driven a 997 911, the best steering rack I have come across so far is still the the E60/E61 M5's.

Let's stick with tactility for a moment and talk about the gear shift. The reality DOES live up to the legend this time. It's so satisfying, I love shifting down from fourth into third. Pedal spacing and throttle response is great, even I can blip it (I'm no heel-and-toe god). It's chunky, it feels mechanical and heavy. But here again, the FK8 Civic Type R's is (almost) on par. Now, this is a source of pain with BMWs (for me). BMW has not invested anything in its manual gearboxes. While the shift may be alright, the ECU set up is abysmal, the revs drop so slowly you could easily double-de-clutch on every single shift. That's not ok. I recently drove an E85 Z4 M and it was significantly more satisfying to shift gears. Oh, and that engine ...

The engine. What car maker could ever dare to pitch its engine against one from the 'Bayerische Motorenwerke'? At least that's what it was up to S54, S65 and S85. Yes, S55 and S58, et al. are very competent engines but for me they're nowhere near as charismatic and exciting as the nat-asp ones. Now you may say they were forced due to emissions regulations but nobody can convince me that BMW wasn't capable of having at least one sporty model with a nat-asp engine. The S55 is fun, I feel like the M2(C(S)) is rarely dead serious and often puts you up to mischief, when it's wet and I love that. But, I also love when a car almost begs you to rev it. The E46 M3 does that, the E6x M5 does that, and the GT3 does that. You get hooked on revs. That doesn't happen in the M2, that doesn't happen in the FK8 Civic Type R, and I think both cars would have been better with nat-asp engines (even if less powerful). The GT3's flat-six is just incredible at high revs and it's true what people say. Go beyond 8000 rpm and enter a world of fizz and excitement. It feels solid, like it could pull off a Captain America i.e. it could do this all day.

A few words about the seats: Love the GT3's carbon buckets, love the FK8 Civic Type R's (they're really good). The M2C's are a bit weaker in that regard.

Sorry for the essay.

Loved your essay, and agree with everything.

Although, the S55 needs to be tuned, even a stage 1 unleashes the potential. The pull to redline now has that slight surreal feel of a runaway sled, great rush. Sound also benefits from an equal length mid pipe.

And the F8x chassis benefits from a few choice suspension upgrades.

Mine is at the point where I could only replace it with a GT4 RS, GTS, or GT3 - nothing else would make sense, and it wouldn’t be a significant step up…

[vetteflier]

Love the GT3--with PDK. Manual is not as quick as M4C. Funny thing, however--at my 7000' altitude, the 4.0 NA would lose 100hp. The twin turbo 3.0 loses nothing. Now, the M4 is considerably faster than the 400 hp PDK GT. Same applies to a C8 Vette--down 100hp from Sea Level. Something to consider. The Z06, also NA, will lose 130+hp. Still fast, but unlike the SC C7 Z, there is a cost to having one at high elevations.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Huh?! I don't factor in. I have my P-Car. People in P-Car camp do, indeed, care about mileage though. That's the point.

Don’t generalize. I drive mine year round: to work, on errands, on road trips, on track, rain, snow or shine, and I couldn’t care less about mileage. After 15 months of ownership, it has 15k miles on the clock, with about half of these on the track. These cars are meant to be driven.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Don't generalize. I drive mine, to work, on errands, on road trips, on track, and I couldn't care less about mileage. After 15 months of ownership, it had 15k miles on the clock, with about half of these on the track. These cars are meant to be driven.

We all generalize. There's nothing wrong with generalizing. It would be different if I said every Porsche owner was a certain way, but I didn't. You are an outlier whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. I do agree with you that the cars are meant to be driven.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Porsche GT products are excellent, but they’re far from the be-all end-all when it comes to cars primarily driven on the street.

Porsche prices their cars appropriately. MSRP is fair. I find the inflated retail prices we usually see for current-gen models are out of step with the reality of what you actually get. Like with iPhones, the market usually comes back to reality on the current one once the new one comes out. (Ask anyone who paid $300k for a new 2016 GT3RS in Ultraviolet.)

I recall spending a good amount of time with the 991.1 GT3 in 2014/2015 and consistently concluding that it was a pretty decent step below my Scuderia in driving and ownership experience, despite the fact that all of the hype at the time was with the Porsche.

That Ferrari is one beautiful machine . I am however curious how it would hold up to sustained track use, like the GT3 is built to endure.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

We all generalize. There's nothing wrong with generalizing. It would be different if I said every Porsche owner was a certain way, but I didn't. You are an outlier whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. I do agree with you that the cars are meant to be driven.

I guess it depends what group one hangs out with. I might be at an extreme of the spectrum with my use case, but the vast majority of Porsche car owners I know drive their cars, and drive them hard (including good track time).

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I guess it depends what group one hangs out with. I might be at an extreme of the spectrum with my use case, but the vast majority of Porsche car owners I know drive their cars, and drive them hard (including good track time).

I don't doubt that at all. I think your close circle of friends definitely gets the most out of the cars you own, but you were an avid tracker even when you had the M4.

[aj_g80]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Porsche GT products are excellent, but they’re far from the be-all end-all when it comes to cars primarily driven on the street.

Porsche prices their cars appropriately. MSRP is fair. I find the inflated retail prices we usually see for current-gen models are out of step with the reality of what you actually get. Like with iPhones, the market usually comes back to reality on the current one once the new one comes out. (Ask anyone who paid $300k for a new 2016 GT3RS in Ultraviolet.)

I recall spending a good amount of time with the 991.1 GT3 in 2014/2015 and consistently concluding that it was a pretty decent step below my Scuderia in driving and ownership experience, despite the fact that all of the hype at the time was with the Porsche.

Porsche is about as far as alot of people can step up to.. thats why..

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Where? I don't know one person in real life who has obtained one at MSRP (…and I've only heard claims about MSRP GT3's online; I'm sure somebody who has already purchased multiple cars from a dealership or is friends with the owner(s) has the best chances). I would wait two years for a GT3 at MSRP. My 992 C2S would serve me just fine until then.

There are plenty that have gone for MSRP - many dealers (Penske), only sell for MSRP.
As an aside, I bought my first 718 GT4 for a discount (and a healthy one at that). My second GT4 is also coming with a small discount. If I want a 992.2 GT3, it will be as MSRP. I do have a good, and pretty long standing relationship with my dealership and it's GM.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

There are plenty that have gone for MSRP.
As an aside, I bought my first 718 GT4 for a discount. My second GT4 is also coming with a small discount. If I want a 992.2 GT3, it will be as MSRP. I do have a good, and pretty long standing relationship with my dealership though.

Sigh! As I've stated at least 3 times, there are outlier situations, but people obtaining GT3's at MSRP are not the norm. We're talking about the overwhelming majority, not the 1-2% percent.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

Long time no talk brother. I cannot divulge the dealer but its in the NYC area and I was introduced by someone who has made 11 purchases.

As I said, above, there are plenty of dealers who do MSRP only. In NY, I know South Shore only does MSRP.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Sigh! As I've stated at least 3 times, there are outlier situations, but people obtaining GT3's at MSRP are not the norm. We're talking about the overwhelming majority, not the 1-2% percent.

I actually do not have a single friend who bought a GT3 or has a GT4RS coming that is paying over MSRP and thats is on about 10-12 992 GT3 or GT4RS'.
If you're looking for one, I can try to give you my contact(s), but right now you're really looking at the reality being a 992.2 GT3. Porsche is really just not producing cars in big numbers. I personally prefer the much more limited production and hope they keep it this way. Make 1 car for every 15 people who want one. Keeps the market strong for them on both sides (new and used).

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I actually do not have a single friend who bought a GT3 or has a GT4RS coming that is paying over.
If you're looking for one, I can try to give you my contact(s), but right now you're really looking at the reality being a 992.2 GT3.

I would still take a 992.2 GT3 at MSRP and I would be willing to give up my current 992 C2S. If your contact can do it, I'm in.

[LimeRock]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Porsche GT products are excellent, but they're far from the be-all end-all when it comes to cars primarily driven on the street.

Porsche prices their cars appropriately. MSRP is fair. I find the inflated retail prices we usually see for current-gen models are out of step with the reality of what you actually get. Like with iPhones, the market usually comes back to reality on the current one once the new one comes out. (Ask anyone who paid $300k for a new 2016 GT3RS in Ultraviolet.)

I recall spending a good amount of time with the 991.1 GT3 in 2014/2015 and consistently concluding that it was a pretty decent step below my Scuderia in driving and ownership experience, despite the fact that all of the hype at the time was with the Porsche.

The scuderia is my goal. Do you still own it? How has ownership been?

[LimeRock]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Don't generalize. I drive mine year round: to work, on errands, on road trips, on track, rain, snow or shine, and I couldn't care less about mileage. After 15 months of ownership, it has 15k miles on the clock, with about half of these on the track. These cars are meant to be driven.

Echo this - I don't really drive it in bad weather, but that's just bc I've spent so much damn time keeping her pristine. As far as mileage is concerned, I drive the shit out of my car too - and love every minute. These cars were built to be driven, driven hard and driven often.