[Mako]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

2023 M3 comp xdrive vs 2000 M5 its really impressive what BMW has done:

weight and length are almost identical, but M3 has AWD and automatic transmission (which adds weight so impressive its the same considering all the added tech as well)

2000 M5
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/
$74,000 base price
which in 2023 money is $127,550 (about what new M5 costs...)
188" length
3976 lbs
400 horsepower
0-60 4.8 seconds
1/4 mile 13.3 seconds
top speed 156
mpg 14

2023 M3 comp xdrive
$80,800 base price
189" length
~3975 lbs (haven't seen official weight but M4 xdrive was just over 3900)
503 horsepower
0-60 2.8-3.0 seconds
1/4 mile 11.0 seconds
top speed 155/180
mpg 22

So just think of the M3 as a newer improved M5 with almost no inflation to the price over the last 23 years!

[wtwo3]

I think you just highlighted the problem... you're comparing an M3 to an M5

[pinky_chi]

And thats just comparing straight line speed, another G80 strength is its ability to turn on a track.

Overall the basic design of an automobile really hasn't changed much in ~50 years. 4-stroke combustion engine, independent suspension, gearbox/differential etc. but man have we improved it in the details and extracted enormous performance.

[seis-speed]

Agree with the OP, it is the new M5 which is really cool or not cool depending on your use case. As a dad, I love it.

I think the gripe many had was the F80 was very light in comparison especially *at launch* with few options people were posting weights around 3550bs with 18" wheels, cloth seats, and passive suspension some were even under that. A huge improvement over the E90.

The F80's achievement of a lower weight than it's predecessor seemed like a highly focused element of the F80 platform.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I think you just highlighted the problem... you're comparing an M3 to an M5

Size-wise, that's what works. The current M5 is just as huge compared to the E39 M5 as the current M3 is versus the E46 M3.

The OP's point is pretty clear, and I've made the same one before. Number on the badge aside, the M3 is what the M5 was 22 years ago, the M5 is now what an M7 WOULD have been if it had existed 22 years ago...and the M2 is now what the M3 was.

...in the same way that the Civic IS what the Accord WAS.

Folk get too focused on the badge on the car and probably should be thinking about the size of the car to set their expectations on such things as curb weight, or even what they'll be happy driving.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Size-wise, that's what works. The current M5 is just as huge compared to the E39 M5 as the current M3 is versus the E46 M3.

The OP's point is pretty clear, and I've made the same one before. Number on the badge aside, the M3 is what the M5 was 22 years ago, the M5 is now what an M7 WOULD have been if it had existed 22 years ago...and the M2 is now what the M3 was.

...in the same way that the Civic IS what the Accord WAS.

Folk get too focused on the badge on the car and probably should be thinking about the size of the car to set their expectations on such things as curb weight, or even what they'll be happy driving.

Oh I know... I was just highlighting why people complain about it.

The new M2 however is an interesting case.... it weighs virtually the same as the M4.

While the industry in general has gone in this direction (and it makes sense why), from purely a driving dynamic standpoint, it's hard to continually fight physics with sophisticated suspensions - ultimately a small, lightweight car will generally always be more fun to drive than a heavier, larger car.

I personally have accepted that this is just how the industry has trended, and don't really knock the G80 specifically for its size and weight. In its class, it's still relatively lightweight along with the Giulia QF. At least we didn't get a 4,600 lb c63....

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Oh I know... I was just highlighting why people complain about it.

The new M2 however is an interesting case.... it weighs virtually the same as the M4.

While the industry in general has gone in this direction (and it makes sense why), from purely a driving dynamic standpoint, it's hard to continually fight physics with sophisticated suspensions - ultimately a small, lightweight car will generally always be more fun to drive than a heavier, larger car.

I personally have accepted that this is just how the industry has trended, and don't really knock the G80 specifically for its size and weight. In its class, it's still relatively lightweight along with the Giulia QF. At least we didn't get a 4,600 lb c63....

Yep, the M2, I think, is an example of what happens with the shared architecture companies are using. The CLAR platform, the engine, and all the common components weigh X amount. Reducing the length of the car by 10 inches only really removes the weight of the shorter body panels. Or some such. The M5 on the CLAR platform gets MORE weight than the extra panel lengths because of the V8 engine and other components that aren't also used in the M2/3/4.

[luckylingy]

Good comparison, OP. Having had a couple E39 M5s (and an E39 540 6-speed to boot), I agree the G8x is its current equivalent. Nearly all manufacturers have succumbed to size/weight creep -- because consumers demand more space and feature content. I look at my G82 M4 as a modern-day M6, not a successor to early-generation M3s. (And I'm okay with that, as I'm 20+ years older, too, and my priorities have evolved.) The 1M and 1st-generation M2 were heirs to the E30 and E46 M3s, respectively. I'm not sure yet of the G87 M2's closest ancestor, even its weight and footprint.

[Ed_P]

Originally Posted by luckylingy

Good comparison, OP. Having had a couple E39 M5s (and an E39 540 6-speed to boot), I agree the G8x is its current equivalent. Nearly all manufacturers have succumbed to size/weight creep -- because consumers demand more space and feature content. I look at my G82 M4 as a modern-day M6, not a successor to early-generation M3s. (And I'm okay with that, as I'm 20+ years older, too, and my priorities have evolved.) The 1M and 1st-generation M2 were heirs to the E30 and E46 M3s, respectively. I'm not sure yet of the G87 M2's closest ancestor, even its weight and footprint.

I agree, except I think the E30M3 really didn't have an heir. The M3s that followed (before they became M4s) are descendants of the E36.

[gs1403]

As good as the G8X is in its own right, we're talking about 20 years of progress here. Should we really be impressed it outperforms a M5 from two decades ago at the same weight.

[Anderson11]

Originally Posted by gs1403

As good as the G8X is in its own right, we're talking about 20 years of progress here. Should we really be impressed it outperforms a M5 from two decades ago at the same weight.

No!

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by gs1403

As good as the G8X is in its own right, we're talking about 20 years of progress here. Should we really be impressed it outperforms a M5 from two decades ago at the same weight.

I find it interesting. Forget the model numbers just looking at how far the technology has come in 2 decades.

Weight being equal you have a 3L I6 blowing the doors off a 4.4L V8 while getting 8MPG more.

[undecided]

Originally Posted by Mako

2023 M3 comp xdrive vs 2000 M5 its really impressive what BMW has done:

weight and length are almost identical, but M3 has AWD and automatic transmission (which adds weight so impressive its the same considering all the added tech as well)

2000 M5
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/
$74,000 base price
which in 2023 money is $127,550 (about what new M5 costs...)
188" length
3976 lbs
400 horsepower
0-60 4.8 seconds
1/4 mile 13.3 seconds
top speed 156
mpg 14

2023 M3 comp xdrive
$80,800 base price
189" length
~3975 lbs (haven't seen official weight but M4 xdrive was just over 3900)
503 horsepower
0-60 2.8-3.0 seconds
1/4 mile 11.0 seconds
top speed 155/180
mpg 22

So just think of the M3 as a newer improved M5 with almost no inflation to the price over the last 23 years!

Imagine same care with a couple of hundred pounds less weight. It would be fantastic.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by undecided

Imagine same care with a couple of hundred pounds less weight. It would be fantastic.

You mean the base M3 ?
😏

[undecided]

Originally Posted by 330indy

You mean the base M3 ?
😏

Why couldn't it be same as F80?
Also article said G80 M3 base is same weight as 540i. BMW just screwed up so that they could reuse same architecture across models.