01-24-2023, 04:32 PM | #89 | |
General
21117
Rep 20,741
Posts
Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal
|
Quote:
However, for the discussion here, it is about how much effort was spent to shed weight off the base car to get to a CSL. Just putting option that are offered on the base car does not qualify as a particular engineering effort, hence starting with the lowest weight standard car to compare to the CSL is a more meaningful exercise in my view.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver
Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black |
|
01-24-2023, 05:02 PM | #90 | |
In the Details
1810
Rep 866
Posts
Drives: Yes
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Texas Hill Country
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2020 AMG GTR [0.00]
2022 R8 Quattro Spyder [0.00] 2023 X5M50 [0.00] 2023 718 Spyder [0.00] 2024 Silverado [0.00] 2024 Civic Type R [0.00] |
Quote:
After the diesel scandal I don't really "trust" what I can't verify myself and when 1. many cars are putting down on chassis dynos (yes I know the fudge factor is great here) what they are rated at the engine (mclarens, bmws, etc - to your point all are turbocharged) 2. weight discrepancies between stated weights and actual measured weights (ferrari being the biggest offender here) so if I really want to know what the power number is or the weight is, I measure it myself and maybe see what the trap speed is (although the "local" track is closed again forever). |
|
Appreciate
4
|
01-25-2023, 12:58 AM | #91 | |
Brigadier General
7122
Rep 4,008
Posts
Drives: M235i, 420i, and now the M2 CS
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Adelaide
|
Quote:
I agree with both your views. Just a point of clarification on Higgs' comment: from memory, of all the manufacturers put to the task during "diesel-gate" saga, BMW happened to be one of the most honest
__________________
M2CS,
The second coming of ///M! |
|
Appreciate
2
CanAutM321116.50 Higgs Boson1810.00 |
01-25-2023, 07:16 AM | #92 |
In the Details
1810
Rep 866
Posts
Drives: Yes
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Texas Hill Country
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2020 AMG GTR [0.00]
2022 R8 Quattro Spyder [0.00] 2023 X5M50 [0.00] 2023 718 Spyder [0.00] 2024 Silverado [0.00] 2024 Civic Type R [0.00] |
|
Appreciate
2
MadBimmeRad7121.50 KKSigs1267.50 |
01-26-2023, 11:51 AM | #93 |
Captain
1619
Rep 983
Posts
Drives: 2024 M4 Comp X-Drive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada
|
Everyone needs to remember the most important issue with the CSL…there’s no manual…
__________________
2024 Dravit Grey M4 Competition X-Drive
|
Appreciate
3
|
01-26-2023, 12:12 PM | #94 |
In the Details
1810
Rep 866
Posts
Drives: Yes
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Texas Hill Country
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2020 AMG GTR [0.00]
2022 R8 Quattro Spyder [0.00] 2023 X5M50 [0.00] 2023 718 Spyder [0.00] 2024 Silverado [0.00] 2024 Civic Type R [0.00] |
Manuals are great when they can stall and don't help you shift like today's cars. Manuals are for old cars, IMO. When you stick the rev match with no computer assistance that's when man and machine are one. That's when you feel like god's gift to performance driving. Until you steer into a fence.
|
Appreciate
2
MadBimmeRad7121.50 DM5PAV375.00 |
01-26-2023, 12:16 PM | #95 | |
Brigadier General
6059
Rep 3,625
Posts |
Quote:
Boss: "hey guys we need ways to bring weight down, we ditched the x-drive, added a carbon hood and and trunk, fixed carbon buckets, no cup holders.... How else can we reduce weight???" new guy: "we can drop 40-50 pounds by putting in a manual, add no-lift-shift to keep the turbo spooled between shifts like porsche does". Boss: "no, not that"
__________________
2018 Porsche GT3 6MT 2021 M2C DCT Previous: Ferrari 458 | R35 GTR | F80 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | Scion FRS |
|
Appreciate
6
|
01-26-2023, 03:38 PM | #96 | |
Captain
1619
Rep 983
Posts
Drives: 2024 M4 Comp X-Drive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada
|
Quote:
__________________
2024 Dravit Grey M4 Competition X-Drive
|
|
01-26-2023, 04:42 PM | #97 | |
Senior 1Addict
5161
Rep 2,426
Posts
Drives: BMW iX, Porsche GT4 RS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
They should have offered that option, most people would have taken it. |
|
Appreciate
4
|
01-26-2023, 04:45 PM | #98 | |
Senior 1Addict
5161
Rep 2,426
Posts
Drives: BMW iX, Porsche GT4 RS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
Try driving around in a manual car with no TC, no stability control and no rev-matching and RWD. That required a different level of skill on backroads or track than the cars that exist today. |
|
Appreciate
2
Higgs Boson1810.00 MadBimmeRad7121.50 |
01-26-2023, 06:17 PM | #99 | |
Captain
1046
Rep 941
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
1
Bimmerfun827158.50 |
01-26-2023, 06:25 PM | #100 | |
Brigadier General
7159
Rep 3,392
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
1
ScullyD5160.50 |
01-26-2023, 06:27 PM | #101 |
Senior 1Addict
5161
Rep 2,426
Posts
Drives: BMW iX, Porsche GT4 RS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NJ
|
Good examples of BMW gearboxes too, better than the BMW gearboxes of today. Even though BMWs will never have the best shifters ever.
|
Appreciate
1
MadBimmeRad7121.50 |
01-26-2023, 07:03 PM | #102 | |
Captain
1619
Rep 983
Posts
Drives: 2024 M4 Comp X-Drive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada
|
Quote:
I went from a DCT M2 to a manual ‘21 M4 and now a manual M3. From my perspective there’s no comparison when it comes to driver engagement. The manual wins. (For me) (I used to race 600-800RWHP manual cars back in the 90s-00s, these cars are tame in comparison even with the DSC and all nanny’s off)
__________________
2024 Dravit Grey M4 Competition X-Drive
|
|
01-26-2023, 07:19 PM | #103 | |
Senior 1Addict
5161
Rep 2,426
Posts
Drives: BMW iX, Porsche GT4 RS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
On the same vein, automatics have been developed to make cars more interactive and bridge that gap. It’s not as simple as saying “oh it’s not a manual, then no thanks”. There are some sub-par manuals and manual cars, just like there are some not-so good automatics and dual clutches. A car’s sense of interaction is based on more than gearshift in this age of increased digitization. |
|
Appreciate
4
|
01-26-2023, 07:25 PM | #104 | |
Senior 1Addict
5161
Rep 2,426
Posts
Drives: BMW iX, Porsche GT4 RS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
My hope is that BMW can get the sweet spot for fast auto shifts (and engagement) but smoothness in the M3 CS, actually. |
|
01-26-2023, 08:15 PM | #105 | |
Brigadier General
7122
Rep 4,008
Posts
Drives: M235i, 420i, and now the M2 CS
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Adelaide
|
Quote:
__________________
M2CS,
The second coming of ///M! |
|
Appreciate
4
|
01-26-2023, 08:56 PM | #106 | |
General
21117
Rep 20,741
Posts
Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal
|
Quote:
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver
Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black |
|
Appreciate
1
MadBimmeRad7121.50 |
01-26-2023, 10:12 PM | #107 | |
Brigadier General
7122
Rep 4,008
Posts
Drives: M235i, 420i, and now the M2 CS
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Adelaide
|
Quote:
Now, in Australia, you can get a licence for an automatic and upgrade to a manual if you want to. Young ones these days wouldn't be as familiar with manual gearboxes as we were back in the last century. I submit, that's why most manual boxes have had to be "dumbed down" to cater for this situation.
__________________
M2CS,
The second coming of ///M! |
|
Appreciate
1
HudsonHornett1258.00 |
01-31-2023, 11:47 AM | #108 | |
12991
Rep 0
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
3
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|