[PLF69]

Originally Posted by Nettles

Okay let’s stop talking about The Beatles right? It’s been a long time let’s move on.

Let's compare my argument to something as incomparable as we can..

What I ment was that the damn E46 CSL is not a car I can actually buy and enjoy on my track days, it never was and never will be. I prefer to evaluate the M4 CSL as the car it is rather than to something of 20yr ago that a very small % of enthousiast have ever been able to experiment.

The CSL moniker is as of now and based on BMW's own documents, the most track focused model designation they produce. That is all we need to know.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

The GT4 RS fixes that, as they changed the gear ratios.

But one thing to note about the M4 CSL, and this goes more about ownership proposition than road test reviews:

1) the build quality of the car the car is absolutely perfect so far. The materials are all super detailed and expensive feeling everywhere. It feels like it should cost $150k. It has a feeling of solidity about it that I’ve never experienced in any other BMW or Porsche I’ve been in.

2) it’s as easy to get serviced and maintained as any 3/4 series, while it tangles with exotica from Ferrari, Maserati and Lamborghini etc.

I’ve heard good things about build quality so far. Much improved I’ve heard, particularly fit and finish in the cabin.

[kgelfen360]

I am wondering why BMW didn’t push the power a bit more on the CSL? Closer to 600. Based on the tunes and mods people do to m4cx seems like that would be easy to do.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

I am wondering why BMW didn’t push the power a bit more on the CSL? Closer to 600. Based on the tunes and mods people do to m4cx seems like that would be easy to do.

There is talk that they may have but of course like anything else, it's debatable. Need more than 1 or 2 dynos to know for sure.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

I am wondering why BMW didn’t push the power a bit more on the CSL? Closer to 600. Based on the tunes and mods people do to m4cx seems like that would be easy to do.

probably because of reliability

the CSL has to be able to make its power consistently even on 100+ degree track days.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

I am wondering why BMW didn’t push the power a bit more on the CSL? Closer to 600. Based on the tunes and mods people do to m4cx seems like that would be easy to do.

Why else does BMW neuter their cars, so they can have more special editions, in this case, the M4CSL 3.0.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

I am wondering why BMW didn’t push the power a bit more on the CSL? Closer to 600. Based on the tunes and mods people do to m4cx seems like that would be easy to do.

Do a dyno, you'll be sweetly surprised

[Jimjamz]

I regularly see a guy commuting his E46 CSL over the Sydney Harbour Bridge into work. Lovely looking ride and I always think this guy has some kajoolies commuting that beast.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

I am wondering why BMW didn’t push the power a bit more on the CSL? Closer to 600. Based on the tunes and mods people do to m4cx seems like that would be easy to do.

Haha, take a ride in one and report back, it's just a number on the spec sheet.

[SliChillax]

Originally Posted by PLF69

We all know the Z06 is the bargain of sports cars and just like the Camaro's, Blackwings and other GM products or 700hp Mustangs the price to pay for this huge bargain is a car that looks like it was designed by an 8years old dreaming of flying cars with square steering wheels. I don't have anything against the Corvette but it is what it is, NOT a precisely engineered German product. If you take only the price as a metric, of course it's going to beat everything.

I dont think the Z06 is the one who should have its design criticised, we are in the G80 forum after all take a look in the mirror lol. “Not a precisely engineered German product” what year is it? I’ve driven the standard C8 with the 3LZ and Z51 package and it felt just as premium inside (which I was shocked) as any expensive German product and in terms of handling way better than anything BMW has been doing for the past years in terms of chassis dynamics and incredible suspension technology, I can’t imagine what the Z06 is like. If you would have said this about the Camaro, I would have to agree to a certain point (I own a ZL1) but you’re lying to yourself about the Corvette.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by SliChillax

we are in the G80 forum after all take a look in the mirror lol.

you callin me ugly???

[mfarrzhp]

Originally Posted by SliChillax

I dont think the Z06 is the one who should have its design criticised, we are in the G80 forum after all take a look in the mirror lol. “Not a precisely engineered German product” what year is it? I’ve driven the standard C8 with the 3LZ and Z51 package and it felt just as premium inside (which I was shocked) as any expensive German product and in terms of handling way better than anything BMW has been doing for the past years in terms of chassis dynamics and incredible suspension technology, I can’t imagine what the Z06 is like. If you would have said this about the Camaro, I would have to agree to a certain point (I own a ZL1) but you’re lying to yourself about the Corvette.

I’ve also spent a good amount of time in a loaded C8 with Z51. It is a crazy good car, including build and interior quality, which was always the Vette’s weak spot. I also spent 2 days on the track in a C8 driving school and it doesn’t break a sweat. My only issue is that at least in FL, they are everywhere.

Hard to penalize the C8 for being a higher production affordable car that is almost super car level. The Z06 will be more of a rarity and true super car level.

As far as the CSL, and I’ve never driven any G8X, but on paper it has a couple things going against it.

Design
Weight
Transmission
M4C is already so good.

The last one you get with any special edition BMW. I feel like if they had put a 6MT or even the DCT in it, it would be universally loved. The M5 CS seems to get away with the auto because it’s a 4 door midsize sedan. The M4 CSL has almost nothing in common with the E30 M3, except having 2 doors and rear seats.

I’m being very critical because we are talking $150K street/track cars. I don’t track enough to buy the CSL. I would most certainly pick the M5 CS for daily driving at that price point. If someone were to hand me a CSL, I’m sure I would enjoy the hell out of it.

[rivma13]

Just put a BM3 + Cup2 tires on a M4C and it will be faster than a CSL. Get an M2 with the additional change...

[SliChillax]

Originally Posted by mfarrzhp

I’ve also spent a good amount of time in a loaded C8 with Z51. It is a crazy good car, including build and interior quality, which was always the Vette’s weak spot. I also spent 2 days on the track in a C8 driving school and it doesn’t break a sweat. My only issue is that at least in FL, they are everywhere.

Hard to penalize the C8 for being a higher production affordable car that is almost super car level. The Z06 will be more of a rarity and true super car level.

As far as the CSL, and I’ve never driven any G8X, but on paper it has a couple things going against it.

Design
Weight
Transmission
M4C is already so good.

The last one you get with any special edition BMW. I feel like if they had put a 6MT or even the DCT in it, it would be universally loved. The M5 CS seems to get away with the auto because it’s a 4 door midsize sedan. The M4 CSL has almost nothing in common with the E30 M3, except having 2 doors and rear seats.

I’m being very critical because we are talking $150K street/track cars. I don’t track enough to buy the CSL. I would most certainly pick the M5 CS for daily driving at that price point. If someone were to hand me a CSL, I’m sure I would enjoy the hell out of it.

Funny enough I drove yesterday my friends tuned F90 M5 Comp Lci and he had just done a stage 2 tune and also a transmission tune and it felt like a night and day difference from stock. The shifts were so crisp it felt like a dct without the disadvantages of being jerky sometimes in traffic. So I guess as long as you’re willing to let the warranty go, the transmission can be improved massively with a tune.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by PLF69

We all know the Z06 is the bargain of sports cars and just like the Camaro's, Blackwings and other GM products or 700hp Mustangs the price to pay for this huge bargain is a car that looks like it was designed by an 8years old dreaming of flying cars with square steering wheels. I don't have anything against the Corvette but it is what it is, NOT a precisely engineered German product. If you take only the price as a metric, of course it's going to beat everything.

The vette folks (and American car fans in general) have rights to brag for sure. The recent batch of cars seem to put up great track times. A mundane looking Mustang is right up there and you wouldn’t expect that considering the Mustangs I remember growing up. But you have to be able to accept American quality which still is lacking including interiors that are still a cut below. I reminded of this when I hear about corvettes and GT350s with overheating issues which I can’t wrap my head around for “track duty” cars. For the most part German cars may give up a little on the track but they can be used daily without a grown up adult feeling like a child when they pull in to a parking lot. No one feels like a child in a Porsche but over-styled Camaro?

[IcewaterPete]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

I think the car is being judged too much against the badge on it.
.

Huh??? Ok then…

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by IcewaterPete

Huh??? Ok then…

It’s being judged against the weight, sound and look of the e46 CSL which is a car that 20 years old and in it’s time was largely derided (a car that finished 8th in ECoTy at the time btw).

It’s not being judged against an M4C or it’s competition and their price point.

[IcewaterPete]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I regularly see a guy commuting his E46 CSL over the Sydney Harbour Bridge into work. Lovely looking ride and I always think this guy has some kajoolies commuting that beast.

My hero!

[FISH22]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I regularly see a guy commuting his E46 CSL over the Sydney Harbour Bridge into work. Lovely looking ride and I always think this guy has some kajoolies commuting that beast.

Nice! That’s the way it’s supposed to be done.

[IcewaterPete]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

It’s being judged against the weight, sound and look of the e46 CSL which is a car that 20 years old and in it’s time was largely derided (a car that finished 8th in ECoTy at the time btw).

It’s not being judged against an M4C or it’s competition and their price point.

I’d make a case that any car weighing 3,600 pounds should not be called a CSL. It’s all marketing in the current form. Shaving a couple hundred pounds just doesn’t cut it. Heck, a Toyota Supra is hundreds of pounds less in weight. It can be done right if their is the desire.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by IcewaterPete

I’d make a case that any car weighing 3,600 pounds should not be called a CSL. It’s all marketing in the current form. Shaving a couple hundred pounds just doesn’t cut it. Heck, a Toyota Supra is hundreds of pounds less in weight. It can be done right if their is the desire.

So you just made my point for me. It’s being judge against the badge and not if it’s a good car or not.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by IcewaterPete

I’d make a case that any car weighing 3,600 pounds should not be called a CSL. It’s all marketing in the current form. Shaving a couple hundred pounds just doesn’t cut it. Heck, a Toyota Supra is hundreds of pounds less in weight. It can be done right if their is the desire.

So what would you have done to cut more weight? Be specific.