BMW M3 and M4 - The Icons
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
Technical Sections Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-24-2023, 09:48 AM   #1
ZedEx
New Member
22
Rep
10
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wilmington, NC

iTrader: (0)

My Unflashed G80 on JB4 | 9.9s at 138mph on E50 - 10.15s at 135mph on 93 Octane...

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
Hey, guys! I've been sharing my progress across various Facebook groups as this car has gone faster and faster on JB4, but thought I'd put together a quick-and-dirty thread to share the progress here.

Quick background: coming from an 2020 Toyota GR Supra as my previous fun daily driver, G80 seemed like the naturally progression after my son was born. So, I ordered my 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive to learn the platform, and I immediately fell in love with it for reasons we all understand.

After an 8 month wait, delivery day!


Tucked in with her garage mate...


Ronin loves his cruises with daddy, especially when we're cutting up...


Initially, I planned on immediately unlocking, and proceeding with flash tuning to develop our packages. However, I realized that one question we were getting frequently from our S58 customers had nothing to do with flash tuning... "which is better? JB4 or RaceChip GTS Black?"

So, I got both and started testing. The findings are beside the point of this thread, but after seeing the capabilities of JB4 on various maps and fuels, I was impressed. After speaking with our BMW customers, I learned that 8/10 would prefer a piggyback solution over flash tuning, as long as they could gain 100whp or so. With that information in hand, I decided to invest some time here.



After that point, I spent months learning the platform, and learning JB4. And the further in I got, the more confident I was that 9s on an unflashed ECU with JB4 is 100% feasible! This became my goal for this phase, and I'm happy to say that hypothesis proved out. I'll save the whole zig-zag progression story for a video, but here's where we stand currently. Vehicle details and modifications performed are as follows:
  • 2023 M3 Competition xDrive, standard seats, steel brakes
  • 3,945lbs with me in it (passenger seats removed, 201lb driver)
  • JB4 with my Map 6 settings
  • Fuel-It! port injection
  • E50 fuel
  • MST intakes
  • MAD down-pipes with 200-cell catalytic converters
  • xHP Stage-3
  • Front wheels & tires: stock 275/35R19 Michelin PS4
  • Rear wheels & tires: Apex VS-5RS 18x10.5 with 305/35R18 Mickey Thompson ET Street S/S

And the result thus far?

9.99s at 138.08mph on the street, on E50...




5.99s 60-130mph on the street, on E50...




10.15s at 135.13mph on the street, on 93 OCTANE!




What's crazy, is that if I cut my normal 1.51s 60ft on that run, it would have been 10.07-10.08s on 93 octane! Absolutely bonkers. Planning to revisit 93 octane and see how fast I can go after the below improvements.

And here are a few shots of the car as it sits with the rear drag pack...











I believe the car is making as much power as it can with the current hardware in place, so from here, it's an exercise of efficiency. Next steps below:

1. Swap out MST Performance intake for Mishimoto closed air box intake. At this point, the benefits of a closed air box and plastic construction may knock a couple hundredths off. Worth it!
2. Install Apex 19x10 +12mm VS-5RS on stock 275/35R19 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. The reduced rotating mass over stock will have a considerably impact.
3. Test out various ethanol contents at the same boost level, and see if there are any gains to be had. Low confidence in this, but worth a try.
4. Try out a custom xHP transmission tune. Not fully confident it will make a difference, but worth a shot.
5. Install Apex 20x10 +8mm VS-5RS on stock 285/30R20 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. Same logic as point 2.
6. Dial in custom launch control settings via xHP to try and cut similar 60fts on stock tires. If this proves to be feasible, trap speed should increase considerably without the 76lbs and high rolling resistance of the 305/35R18 Mickey Thompson ET Street S/S out back, which should translate to faster times. Could be challenging with winter temperature right around the corner.

I'll keep everyone posted on progress from here!
__________________
- 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive - locked/unflashed ECU on JB4: 9.68s at 140.13mph on the street
- 2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO No. 48 - 100% stock
- 2000 Acura Integra Type-R No. 686 - owned since 2006, fully restored
- 2018 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road - daily driver and soft roader

Last edited by ZedEx; 09-24-2023 at 09:56 AM..
Appreciate 8
      09-24-2023, 12:43 PM   #2
ChrisM4
Captain
ChrisM4's Avatar
Canada
1525
Rep
954
Posts

Drives: 2024 M4 Comp X-Drive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Great results on so few mods! At what point do you think port injection is necessary? Wondering what the ceiling is power/ET/MPH wise on say 109 octane unleaded versus 93 all without PI.
__________________
2024 Dravit Grey M4 Competition X-Drive
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2023, 12:47 PM   #3
chris3g
Major
1494
Rep
1,209
Posts

Drives: 2023 M3 xdrive
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (4)

Port injection won’t be needed on race gas with stock turbos or likely even with upgraded turbos, the factory fuel system is very capable. It’s only needed with high ethanol content and power in excess of 750whp on ethanol.

With piggyback solution the limits are probably a bit lower since there is no control over the fueling.
Appreciate 1
ChrisM41525.00
      09-24-2023, 02:13 PM   #4
Sbm007
Captain
Sbm007's Avatar
United Kingdom
613
Rep
824
Posts

Drives: G80 M3CX (Oxide Grey)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Glasgow, UK

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Wow that's crazy for 93 on JB4! Curious to hear what settings you are running on XHP Stage 3 - also are you using Drag Mode in XHP?
__________________
Gone:
2011 E90 318d (Alpine White) • 2016 F83 M4 (Mineral White) • 2019 F83 M4 Competition (Sapphire Black)
Current:
2022 G80 M3 Competition M xDrive (Oxide Grey)
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2023, 03:38 PM   #5
ZedEx
New Member
22
Rep
10
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wilmington, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisM3 View Post
Great results on so few mods! At what point do you think port injection is necessary? Wondering what the ceiling is power/ET/MPH wise on say 109 octane unleaded versus 93 all without PI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris3g View Post
Port injection won’t be needed on race gas with stock turbos or likely even with upgraded turbos, the factory fuel system is very capable. It’s only needed with high ethanol content and power in excess of 750whp on ethanol.

With piggyback solution the limits are probably a bit lower since there is no control over the fueling.
Trust me, I spent over $2,000 on MS109 exploring the limitations of the stock fuel system. Believe me when I tell you JB4 has different limitations than what you see with flash-tuned applications, haha.

I ran 10.00s, 10.01, and 10.02 multiple times on MS109. The fuel system was so on the ragged edge, that I could only manage 1 clean run every 3-4 without trims going open loop and getting lean cut. You can see in this 10.00s timeslip how it's moving great for the 1/8th mile, but then loses power on the big end when trims started freaking out. This would have been a fast one, otherwise!



With E50, the car traps 138mph+ on less boost. Based on the data from my ~100 runs, it looks like optimal boost for JB4 on E50 is considerably lower than on flash-tuned cars, at 28.6psi. I found that to be the peak of the bell curve. Any more or any less, and the car went slower.
__________________
- 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive - locked/unflashed ECU on JB4: 9.68s at 140.13mph on the street
- 2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO No. 48 - 100% stock
- 2000 Acura Integra Type-R No. 686 - owned since 2006, fully restored
- 2018 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road - daily driver and soft roader
Appreciate 1
ChrisM41525.00
      09-24-2023, 03:43 PM   #6
ZedEx
New Member
22
Rep
10
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wilmington, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbm007 View Post
Wow that's crazy for 93 on JB4! Curious to hear what settings you are running on XHP Stage 3 - also are you using Drag Mode in XHP?
That's another thing I learned: JB4 cars have way different limitations for drag race mode than flash-tuned cars. Below 27psi and drag race mode reduced ET by .1s repeatably. Above 27psi, and it resulted in consistent shifting issues that worsened as temperatures dropped, as the car was making more power. The car became unusable beyond 27psi on drag race mode. The 9.99s run was done on Stage-3 with no other options.
__________________
- 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive - locked/unflashed ECU on JB4: 9.68s at 140.13mph on the street
- 2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO No. 48 - 100% stock
- 2000 Acura Integra Type-R No. 686 - owned since 2006, fully restored
- 2018 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road - daily driver and soft roader
Appreciate 1
      09-24-2023, 04:35 PM   #7
ChrisM4
Captain
ChrisM4's Avatar
Canada
1525
Rep
954
Posts

Drives: 2024 M4 Comp X-Drive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris3g View Post
Port injection won’t be needed on race gas with stock turbos or likely even with upgraded turbos, the factory fuel system is very capable. It’s only needed with high ethanol content and power in excess of 750whp on ethanol.

With piggyback solution the limits are probably a bit lower since there is no control over the fueling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedEx View Post
Trust me, I spent over $2,000 on MS109 exploring the limitations of the stock fuel system. Believe me when I tell you JB4 has different limitations than what you see with flash-tuned applications, haha.

I ran 10.00s, 10.01, and 10.02 multiple times on MS109. The fuel system was so on the ragged edge, that I could only manage 1 clean run every 3-4 without trims going open loop and getting lean cut. You can see in this 10.00s timeslip how it's moving great for the 1/8th mile, but then loses power on the big end when trims started freaking out. This would have been a fast one, otherwise!



With E50, the car traps 138mph+ on less boost. Based on the data from my ~100 runs, it looks like optimal boost for JB4 on E50 is considerably lower than on flash-tuned cars, at 28.6psi. I found that to be the peak of the bell curve. Any more or any less, and the car went slower.
Thanks both appreciate it! Do you think reliable 10.50s are possible on 109 unleaded with the right JB4 setup?
__________________
2024 Dravit Grey M4 Competition X-Drive
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2023, 04:51 PM   #8
ZedEx
New Member
22
Rep
10
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wilmington, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisM3 View Post
Thanks both appreciate it! Do you think reliable 10.50s are possible on 109 unleaded with the right JB4 setup?
Oh, easily! That can be done without issue on 93 octane even. I went 10.15s at 135.13mph on 93 octane (see original post). Mind you, that was with passenger seats out, drag race mode active, and on my drag pack. So, it would be slower in more reasonable trim for daily driving. Approximately .1s lost full weight and .1s lost with drag race mode off, so that would be ~10.35s.

That said, given that run only did a 1.55s 60ft, I'm quite confident I can replicate that 60ft on stock tires repeatably, and it would go even faster without the ET Street S/S dragging the car down. To the point, I could easily see repeatable 10.3s on 93 octane as daily driven. And if you have access to ethanol, E30 can shave another .1-.15 off that without any hardware change.
__________________
- 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive - locked/unflashed ECU on JB4: 9.68s at 140.13mph on the street
- 2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO No. 48 - 100% stock
- 2000 Acura Integra Type-R No. 686 - owned since 2006, fully restored
- 2018 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road - daily driver and soft roader

Last edited by ZedEx; 09-24-2023 at 04:57 PM..
Appreciate 2
ChrisM41525.00
      09-24-2023, 08:12 PM   #9
E63M6_G42M240i
Lieutenant
E63M6_G42M240i's Avatar
United_States
669
Rep
435
Posts

Drives: 2024 TR G80 M3CX
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Orange County, CA, USA

iTrader: (0)

My man do you think 9’s are possible on E30 or E40 without PI?
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2023, 10:52 PM   #10
G82 Jesse
Private
G82 Jesse's Avatar
61
Rep
87
Posts

Drives: 2024 G82 M4 xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Arizona

iTrader: (1)

The sheer capability of this platform makes me heavily, heavily regret the ludicrous quantity of money & time I pumped into my S55, all to not even make it to this level of performance. 10s was easy but 9s was a pipe dream. Holy moly.

I'm purchasing a G82 xDrive next month and I'm stoked!
Appreciate 1
      09-24-2023, 10:55 PM   #11
SE7EN335
Captain
327
Rep
984
Posts

Drives: 2022 M3 XDrive, 2023 IX M60
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (1)

This is so impressive! I didn't ever think 9 secs would be possible on piggybacks
__________________
2022 M3 XDrive - Full Race Turbos - BMC Filters - MAD Catless downpipes - MAD single midpipe - BM3 Flex Fuel Kit - Paul Johnson Flex Fuel - XHP - MPHAS - EBC Bluestuff - PS4S
2023 IX M60
2018 Lotus Exige Sport 410 - Harrop TVS1900 Supercharger - HKS Intake - Larini Headers - Simply Sports Cars Custom Tune - Ohlins TTX - Ferodo DS3.12 - Yokohoma AD09
Appreciate 0
      09-25-2023, 04:49 AM   #12
ZedEx
New Member
22
Rep
10
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wilmington, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E63M6_G42M240i View Post
My man do you think 9’s are possible on E30 or E40 without PI?
Absolutely! However, you would be at the absolute ragged edge, and small changes in conditions would be the difference between a clean run or lean protection. Knowing what I know now, I would have tried to cut a 9 on the factory DI system. That said, I am enjoying not having to watch trims with port injection. It runs 28-29psi bombing around town, and not a single hiccup. That was not the case when I was running MS109, and would not be the case on E30.
__________________
- 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive - locked/unflashed ECU on JB4: 9.68s at 140.13mph on the street
- 2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO No. 48 - 100% stock
- 2000 Acura Integra Type-R No. 686 - owned since 2006, fully restored
- 2018 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road - daily driver and soft roader
Appreciate 1
      09-25-2023, 04:51 AM   #13
ZedEx
New Member
22
Rep
10
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wilmington, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseH234 View Post
The sheer capability of this platform makes me heavily, heavily regret the ludicrous quantity of money & time I pumped into my S55, all to not even make it to this level of performance. 10s was easy but 9s was a pipe dream. Holy moly.

I'm purchasing a G82 xDrive next month and I'm stoked!
Man, I can't recommend the platform enough!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE7EN335 View Post
This is so impressive! I didn't ever think 9 secs would be possible on piggybacks
Thanks for the words! And my guess would be, 9s on an unflashed ECU with JB4 is going to become standard and repeatable.
__________________
- 2023 BMW M3 Competition xDrive - locked/unflashed ECU on JB4: 9.68s at 140.13mph on the street
- 2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO No. 48 - 100% stock
- 2000 Acura Integra Type-R No. 686 - owned since 2006, fully restored
- 2018 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road - daily driver and soft roader
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:45 PM.




g80
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST