[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

My point still holds regardless of the oversight. Shitty design. The next one will probably protect gears one and two because too much torque lol. Or maybe limit throttle to 50% through gear 2. Meanwhile Porsche will do more with less.

What are you talking about?

The only reason the RWD cars start in second gear using launch control is that it is faster.

The AWD version uses an identical transmission and launches in first gear because it actually hooks in first with AWD

The drivetrain in these cars are VERY strong. There are cars are running high 9s and low 10s on stock turbos and drivetrain.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by vbb

While everyone is correctly pointing out that these two cars were not engineered to win drag races, everyone also seems to be forgetting that the majority of people that buy either the GT3 or the M4 CSL will not be tracking their vehicles ever. What they will be far more likely to do is stoplight or highway rips here and there...so testing straight line rapid acceleration figures is actually relevant to the majority.

Especially M owners. If they lose 0-60 or a drag race it's always the same song. " my car is not built for that or yeah but get me on a track with turns and see what's up" Lol. Get the X-drive and tune it up so you can have the best of both worlds. Or grab a built GTR/Turbo S

[GuloTECH]

sometimes its best to consider overall build dynamics and power behind the engine and again what about the drivers ?
Huge factor, brothers.

[M4Tejas]

[Humdizzle]

i just dont feel bmw can compete with the 911 GT cars, audi r8, or amg gt series. using 40-50k commuter car as a base to create something that competes with six figure supercars is hard to do. even just trying to make a front engine car compete with a mid/rear engine in terms of driving dynamics is tough, you need to shove that engine way far back like a amg gt / viper / or 812 sf and have the driver sit on the rear axle.

i wish they would create a standalone sports car that starts its base model in the 120-140k range and goes up from there.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i just dont feel bmw can compete with the 911 GT cars, audi r8, or amg gt series.

Regular M4C xDrive already matches or outperforms the Audi R8 and all AMG GT non-R products on the track.

M4 CSL matches the 991.1 GT3 RS and is in the same ballpark as the 991.2 GT3.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Regular M4C xDrive already matches or outperforms the Audi R8 and all AMG GT non-R products on the track.

M4 CSL matches the 991.1 GT3 RS and is in the same ballpark as the 991.2 GT3.

I do not believe the latter is true. The M4 CSL's times are all on Cup2R tires and the 991.1 3RS and .2 GT3 were on Cup2s. Add Cup2Rs to either of those and they are even faster. Even with Cup2s, the .1 3RS did 7:18 (and I think that was on the long track) and the .2 did 7:12. You add Cup2Rs and those times drop by 7-10 seconds which is still much faster, despite being 1 generation old cars. BMW built a great car in the CSL but it's no GT car even if you back up about 10 years.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I do not believe the latter is true. The M4 CSL's times are all on Cup2R tires and the 991.1 3RS and .2 GT3 were on Cup2s. Add Cup2Rs to either of those and they are even faster. Even with Cup2s, the .1 3RS did 7:18 (and I think that was on the long track) and the .2 did 7:12. You add Cup2Rs and those times drop by 7-10 seconds which is still much faster, despite being 1 generation old cars. BMW built a great car in the CSL but it's no GT car even if you back up about 10 years.

I’d say being within an incremental tire swap of those cars puts them all in the same ballpark. Regular N* Porsche-spec PSC2 is not a massive downgrade from R. CSL is faster than 991.1 GT3RS at most venues with the tire difference, so same tires likely puts them right on par with each other. I think the CSL compares quite favorably with most last-gen 911 GT3 variants, which seems to be an acceptable result for the program. Based on the data, I don’t agree that you have to go 10+ years back to find a GT3 that the CSL competes with.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Regular M4C xDrive already matches or outperforms the Audi R8 and all AMG GT non-R products on the track.

M4 CSL matches the 991.1 GT3 RS and is in the same ballpark as the 991.2 GT3.

A plaid can put accelerate a chiron
A nissan gtr can pull laps faster than a 458

Just a different experience have a v8 or v10. Or having an engine behind you instead of in front.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

I’d say being within an incremental tire swap of those cars puts them all in the same ballpark. Regular N* Porsche-spec PSC2 is not a massive downgrade from R. CSL is faster than 991.1 GT3RS at most venues with the tire difference, so same tires likely puts them right on par with each other. I think the CSL compares quite favorably with most last-gen 911 GT3 variants, which seems to be an acceptable result for the program. Based on the data, I don’t agree that you have to go 10+ years back to find a GT3 that the CSL competes with.

I do not believe that to be true. The Cup2R is a huge upgrade on these cars.

Here are the fastestlaps times for the .1 3RS and M4 CSL.

Track BMW M4 CSL Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours Club 1:20.10 1:19.22
Nürburgring Nordschleife 7:15.67 7:20.00
Nürburgring GP Sprint 1:34.91 1:35.00
Autocar Dry Handling Track 1:09.20 1:09.90
Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours GP 1:51.86 1:51.62
Hockenheim GP 1:50.10 1:50.78
Sachsenring 1:29.54 1:33.34
Autocar Wet Handling Track 1:31.70 1:26.20

The M4CSL, despite being on a faster and 8 years new doesn't really shows like it is in the ballpark on those laps - a few ever so slightly faster and a few that are ever so slightly slower...again the tires would change that. THe times for the 997 GT3 RS accounting for tires would be VERY close and that car is about 14 years old.
I cannot find the article, but on a show around 1 min lap, a GT3RS was 1.5 seconds faster. Beyond that, Misha C was 7 seconds faster on a Cup2R vs a Cup2 in a .1 3RS so it really does make a difference.
Again, not taking anything away from the CSL, as I was about to buy before my wife and the CS annoucement stopped me but the GT3s have always been so far ahead and more so when you consider they're still using NA engines that dont have the benefit of massive torque like a turbo S or 2RS.

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

GT3s have always been so far ahead and more so when you consider they're still using NA engines that dont have the benefit of massive torque like a turbo S or 2RS.

Of course, GT3 is a purpose built performance sports car while the G series M is a performance version of a mid-size sedan. Not sure there are any surprises here, just flattery for the CSL being close.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Of course, GT3 is a purpose built performance sports car while the G series M is a performance version of a mid-size sedan. Not sure there are any surprises here, just flattery for the CSL being close.

I mean, Cayenne turbo GT is faster than most sports cars and supercars from a few years ago and that's a 5000 lb SUV that couldn't be any further from a sports car. I dont think it truly matters what the core foundation of a car is anymore. Suspension tuning, technology (dampers, coils, etc), and tires can make anything quite fast.
Another one just for comparison. M4 GTS at VIR did a 2:53 lap and a Panamera turbo a 2:47 despite being a nearly 5000 lb uber luxury car. M5CS despite being 600 lbs lighter and having more power & torque was only able to manager a 2:50.

Maybe we all forget, but the 3/4 series are designed to be sport sedans and knowing that they'll do more performance oriented versions. The levels of torsional rigidity, suspension work BMW does is nothing short of great work. The G8x platform is a very good car and delivers in ways the F8x never could.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i just dont feel bmw can compete with the 911 GT cars, audi r8, or amg gt series. using 40-50k commuter car as a base to create something that competes with six figure supercars is hard to do. even just trying to make a front engine car compete with a mid/rear engine in terms of driving dynamics is tough, you need to shove that engine way far back like a amg gt / viper / or 812 sf and have the driver sit on the rear axle.

I think that's what's so cool about it. Ever since I was a kid I was a fan of the racecar homolimazation. Seeing an E30, S4, or 190E on the road that had the DNA of a DTM car was pretty special. Even today, seeing a prepped E36 M3 keep up with GT3s at the track is more fun than seeing a GT4 vs a Vette. I love purpose built sports cars too, but seeing a street car hang is just cool.

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i wish they would create a standalone sports car that starts its base model in the 120-140k range and goes up from there.

Having said what I did above, I agree. Dedicated sports car please!