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      11-14-2021, 04:41 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad View Post
M9 is what I also thought

These circulated around a while ago
Have any mid-engine M9 renders been created / rumored? Theorized?
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      11-14-2021, 05:34 PM   #24
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Doesn't matter if a 1000 hp G80 or M8 comp smokes the SLS BS. The SLS will always be 100x more collectible and respected the world round. It's in a different league bruh, on mah momma.
This is exactly the point.
SLS is neither in any BMW or any Benz leagues even the top of the line AMG GT so there is no point to battle it against M3 but if the performance is the criteria then M8 should be better competitor than M3 due to power/torque and even engine territory
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      11-14-2021, 05:35 PM   #25
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Not sure how this guy selects cars for such a battle… I mean if he wants to pick up a BMW car to race with top of the line Benz, he would pick M8 which belongs to the same power/torque territory and then M8 smokes SLS ☺️
I think it's probably pretty random for Mat. A car is available for a race, he grabs what he, his friends, and his other sources have available. The green M3 is his, so it's always available. Considering how much content Mat and many other YouTubers put out compared to the classic Top Gear or Magazine reviews that were supported by manufacturers, lots of lopsided races happen.
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      11-14-2021, 06:23 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Moupe View Post
Doesn't matter if a 1000 hp G80 or M8 comp smokes the SLS BS. The SLS will always be 100x more collectible and respected the world round. It's in a different league bruh, on mah momma.
Of course a $1,000,000 car is more collectible than BMW but this battle is about performance not collectibility ….
And yes everybody picks SLS over ANY BMW & BENZ 😄
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      11-15-2021, 11:30 AM   #27
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Interesting...and now this morning I see an article with rumors that Audi / BMW are splitting a purchase of Mclaren, with Audi taking the F1 side and BMW taking the supercars.

That would play right into the mid-engine discussion above.

Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...lwoche-reports

Reuters:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...he-2021-11-14/

BMW denying it currently, but we'll see how things play out.

edit :

Motor1:
https://www.motor1.com/news/547758/b...e-maclaren-f1/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor1
[UPDATE 2] It looks as though Audi is buying the whole McLaren Group, according to Autocar.

[UPDATE] Contacted by Bloomberg, a BMW spokesperson says the article published by Automobilwoche is "wrong." In addition, an Audi representative said the company "routinely considers various ideas for cooperation" as part of its "strategic deliberations."
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      11-15-2021, 04:37 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Interesting...and now this morning I see an article with rumors that Audi / BMW are splitting a purchase of Mclaren, with Audi taking the F1 side and BMW taking the supercars.

That would play right into the mid-engine discussion above.

Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...lwoche-reports

Reuters:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...he-2021-11-14/

BMW denying it currently, but we'll see how things play out.

edit :

Motor1:
https://www.motor1.com/news/547758/b...e-maclaren-f1/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor1
[UPDATE 2] It looks as though Audi is buying the whole McLaren Group, according to Autocar.

[UPDATE] Contacted by Bloomberg, a BMW spokesperson says the article published by Automobilwoche is "wrong." In addition, an Audi representative said the company "routinely considers various ideas for cooperation" as part of its "strategic deliberations."
Benz has a long history of cooperation with McLaren. I'm not sure if they would let BMW or VW/Audi put their hands on little old Mac

Interesting days are afoot
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      11-15-2021, 09:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
BMW needs a super or hypercar….

2 door, 2 seater, 1,000+hp… people would be lining up for that with the BMW nameplate on it.
Until they beaver-grill it.
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      11-16-2021, 04:48 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
BMW needs a super or hypercar….

2 door, 2 seater, 1,000+hp… people would be lining up for that with the BMW nameplate on it.
Until they beaver-grill it.
^^^^
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      11-16-2021, 11:41 AM   #31
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Until they beaver-grill it.
You know, when the Bugatti Veyron first came out I thought it was the ugliest POS hyper car I'd ever seen.

I've come to appreciate its performance, but I still think it's fugly. I may be in the minority here but I think the M3/M4 are styled better than the Veyron.

The Chiron is an improvement for sure, but still doesn't quite do it for me in the looks department at that price point.

If BMW comes out with a Mclaren / Ferrari / Lambo competitor and the performance is there, IMO the grill will be a non-issue.

edit: plus, given the flatter wedge shapes of most cars in that category, by necessity the grill would have to be smaller.
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      11-16-2021, 03:17 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
Until they beaver-grill it.
You know, when the Bugatti Veyron first came out I thought it was the ugliest POS hyper car I'd ever seen.

I've come to appreciate its performance, but I still think it's fugly. I may be in the minority here but I think the M3/M4 are styled better than the Veyron.

The Chiron is an improvement for sure, but still doesn't quite do it for me in the looks department at that price point.

If BMW comes out with a Mclaren / Ferrari / Lambo competitor and the performance is there, IMO the grill will be a non-issue.

edit: plus, given the flatter wedge shapes of most cars in that category, by necessity the grill would have to be smaller.
I read, Audi and BMW are vying to split up McLaren (F1 for Audi and BMW takes the supercars)

Maybe that's what Markus Flasch was talking about when he spoke about a unique///M offering the like of which doesn't exist in the current BMW line up
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      11-16-2021, 09:07 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moupe View Post
Doesn't matter if a 1000 hp G80 or M8 comp smokes the SLS BS. The SLS will always be 100x more collectible and respected the world round. It's in a different league bruh, on mah momma.

hahhaha


proof
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      11-17-2021, 08:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
Until they beaver-grill it.
You know, when the Bugatti Veyron first came out I thought it was the ugliest POS hyper car I'd ever seen.

I've come to appreciate its performance, but I still think it's fugly. I may be in the minority here but I think the M3/M4 are styled better than the Veyron.

The Chiron is an improvement for sure, but still doesn't quite do it for me in the looks department at that price point.

If BMW comes out with a Mclaren / Ferrari / Lambo competitor and the performance is there, IMO the grill will be a non-issue.

edit: plus, given the flatter wedge shapes of most cars in that category, by necessity the grill would have to be smaller.
If the M3/M4 had lambo-level performance at its current price-point, it's still too ugly for me personally to ever consider. I want to love that car and have seriously considered undertaking a bumper swap just to justify getting out of the F80 and into one.
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      11-18-2021, 11:16 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
If the M3/M4 had lambo-level performance at its current price-point, it's still too ugly for me personally to ever consider. I want to love that car and have seriously considered undertaking a bumper swap just to justify getting out of the F80 and into one.
Serious question for you. After all these months, amidst the constant war of legitimate as well as less-legitimate appearance questions, trolling, and everything in between (not by you, specifically, but by such a variety of folk), I continue to have a personal conflict over the thought that the appearance of a car is more important than the driving experience.

If I'm buying something to hang on the dining room wall, appearance comes first, of course. But buying something to drive, appearance has always been secondary to the experience for me, so I hit a wall trying to understand how a car enthusiast can reverse that priority.

I STILL, after owning this car since March 7th, don't enjoy the appearance of my car as much as I did my M2 (though I personally thought the back end of my M2 was as atrocious as my think the front end of the G8x is). I dislike sedans overall due to the extra breaks in the side created by the rear doors and the appearance of b-pillars in general. Yet I own a sedan as function of the car overrides the aesthetic for me. Sticking with just my own reactions to the various cars on the market, the G8x doesn't come anywhere near the Tesla 3 and Y in pure horrid looks. Yet I could still BUY a 3 or a Y if I wanted what they offered as devices.

I recall the old Top Gear episode where they tried to prove that a car can be art and failed to win over the art folk they had on the show. Obviously it was done for laughs, but the point was solid. A car CAN be art despite being mass-produced, but cars that achieve that level of beauty or uniqueness are quite rare.

So, the serious question is: What is your car to you? Is it a status item? Fodder for Instagram more than a device to experience? I'm not looking for why you don't like the G8x, that's been made clear by tons of people, I'm looking for why the device matters less than the shape. Why do the aesthetic factors override the functional factors of the device (for you or anyone else that wants to actually answer the question)?

Last comment to try and make it clear that I'm not trying to start a war here: Whatever your answer is, as long as the answer works for your life and makes you happy, that's all that matters.
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      11-18-2021, 11:20 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
If the M3/M4 had lambo-level performance at its current price-point, it's still too ugly for me personally to ever consider. I want to love that car and have seriously considered undertaking a bumper swap just to justify getting out of the F80 and into one.
One of the vendors here, I think it was IND but could be wrong, said they had a bumper replacement coming out soon (may already be out) that addressed this.

It doesn't really bother me so I haven't kept up on them but I do recall lengthy discussions and votes on which design they were going to go with before I bought mine. And I DID like most of their designs better than the OEM. I may still swap it out one day. Currently I have too many other projects requiring more immediate attention and funds though so a bumper swap is pretty far down my list of things to do / care about at the moment.
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      11-18-2021, 05:45 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
If the M3/M4 had lambo-level performance at its current price-point, it's still too ugly for me personally to ever consider. I want to love that car and have seriously considered undertaking a bumper swap just to justify getting out of the F80 and into one.
Serious question for you. After all these months, amidst the constant war of legitimate as well as less-legitimate appearance questions, trolling, and everything in between (not by you, specifically, but by such a variety of folk), I continue to have a personal conflict over the thought that the appearance of a car is more important than the driving experience.

If I'm buying something to hang on the dining room wall, appearance comes first, of course. But buying something to drive, appearance has always been secondary to the experience for me, so I hit a wall trying to understand how a car enthusiast can reverse that priority.

I STILL, after owning this car since March 7th, don't enjoy the appearance of my car as much as I did my M2 (though I personally thought the back end of my M2 was as atrocious as my think the front end of the G8x is). I dislike sedans overall due to the extra breaks in the side created by the rear doors and the appearance of b-pillars in general. Yet I own a sedan as function of the car overrides the aesthetic for me. Sticking with just my own reactions to the various cars on the market, the G8x doesn't come anywhere near the Tesla 3 and Y in pure horrid looks. Yet I could still BUY a 3 or a Y if I wanted what they offered as devices.

I recall the old Top Gear episode where they tried to prove that a car can be art and failed to win over the art folk they had on the show. Obviously it was done for laughs, but the point was solid. A car CAN be art despite being mass-produced, but cars that achieve that level of beauty or uniqueness are quite rare.

So, the serious question is: What is your car to you? Is it a status item? Fodder for Instagram more than a device to experience? I'm not looking for why you don't like the G8x, that's been made clear by tons of people, I'm looking for why the device matters less than the shape. Why do the aesthetic factors override the functional factors of the device (for you or anyone else that wants to actually answer the question)?

Last comment to try and make it clear that I'm not trying to start a war here: Whatever your answer is, as long as the answer works for your life and makes you happy, that's all that matters.
In architecture, there is a dilemma for designers called form Vs function.

The question is, I guess, would you live in a mansion that looks like a dog house, or a house that looks like a mansion?

To me, personally, I'd like to think I would love getting into my car as much as I would getting out of it.

Let me elaborate: aesthetics is what would make me love getting into a good looking car, whereas performance is what would put a smile on my face when getting out of the car.

Just as in architecture, it's often difficult to achieve both in equal proportions, but if and when you do, you'll have a car that will be loved for time immemorial.

That's where Aston Martin, for example, shines - it has both the looks and performance and the resale price is indicative of that fact be it a DB4 or a DB9.

Obviously, this is hugely subjective, and as such, subject to interpretation.
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      11-18-2021, 10:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
If the M3/M4 had lambo-level performance at its current price-point, it's still too ugly for me personally to ever consider. I want to love that car and have seriously considered undertaking a bumper swap just to justify getting out of the F80 and into one.
Serious question for you. After all these months, amidst the constant war of legitimate as well as less-legitimate appearance questions, trolling, and everything in between (not by you, specifically, but by such a variety of folk), I continue to have a personal conflict over the thought that the appearance of a car is more important than the driving experience.

If I'm buying something to hang on the dining room wall, appearance comes first, of course. But buying something to drive, appearance has always been secondary to the experience for me, so I hit a wall trying to understand how a car enthusiast can reverse that priority.

I STILL, after owning this car since March 7th, don't enjoy the appearance of my car as much as I did my M2 (though I personally thought the back end of my M2 was as atrocious as my think the front end of the G8x is). I dislike sedans overall due to the extra breaks in the side created by the rear doors and the appearance of b-pillars in general. Yet I own a sedan as function of the car overrides the aesthetic for me. Sticking with just my own reactions to the various cars on the market, the G8x doesn't come anywhere near the Tesla 3 and Y in pure horrid looks. Yet I could still BUY a 3 or a Y if I wanted what they offered as devices.

I recall the old Top Gear episode where they tried to prove that a car can be art and failed to win over the art folk they had on the show. Obviously it was done for laughs, but the point was solid. A car CAN be art despite being mass-produced, but cars that achieve that level of beauty or uniqueness are quite rare.

So, the serious question is: What is your car to you? Is it a status item? Fodder for Instagram more than a device to experience? I'm not looking for why you don't like the G8x, that's been made clear by tons of people, I'm looking for why the device matters less than the shape. Why do the aesthetic factors override the functional factors of the device (for you or anyone else that wants to actually answer the question)?

Last comment to try and make it clear that I'm not trying to start a war here: Whatever your answer is, as long as the answer works for your life and makes you happy, that's all that matters.
For me, the car must look good and be fun to drive. I've owned cars all over the spectrum, from a 1000+ hp F100 to a Cadillac hearse barely powerful enough to get out of its own way.

My current daily is the aging F80 and it's replacement must be equally fun to drive and styling to match. While looks are obviously subjective, if you don't get out and look back at the car and smile, you bought the wrong one. For me, the G80 doesn't do it. Other manufacturers might.

Narrow lap times aren't as critical as the overall fun factor. I've done enough track days to know that the fastest laps aren't typically done in the fastest cars, but by the most skilled drivers. Having bragging rights at the pub is meaningless if you can't personally back it up. With that in mind, having the slightly slower but to my eyes far better looking car such as the RS5 (which I haven't driven) may be better than the looks of the current G80.

The reason many have been outspoken on the looks like myself is due to disappointment. I love my F80 and was really excited for the new car. I was CERTAIN I'd order one but when the grill shots came, I was gutted. With electric cars marching on, this may be the last M I own, which is even more disappointing.
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      11-19-2021, 06:38 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
If the M3/M4 had lambo-level performance at its current price-point, it's still too ugly for me personally to ever consider. I want to love that car and have seriously considered undertaking a bumper swap just to justify getting out of the F80 and into one.
Serious question for you. After all these months, amidst the constant war of legitimate as well as less-legitimate appearance questions, trolling, and everything in between (not by you, specifically, but by such a variety of folk), I continue to have a personal conflict over the thought that the appearance of a car is more important than the driving experience.

If I'm buying something to hang on the dining room wall, appearance comes first, of course. But buying something to drive, appearance has always been secondary to the experience for me, so I hit a wall trying to understand how a car enthusiast can reverse that priority.

I STILL, after owning this car since March 7th, don't enjoy the appearance of my car as much as I did my M2 (though I personally thought the back end of my M2 was as atrocious as my think the front end of the G8x is). I dislike sedans overall due to the extra breaks in the side created by the rear doors and the appearance of b-pillars in general. Yet I own a sedan as function of the car overrides the aesthetic for me. Sticking with just my own reactions to the various cars on the market, the G8x doesn't come anywhere near the Tesla 3 and Y in pure horrid looks. Yet I could still BUY a 3 or a Y if I wanted what they offered as devices.

I recall the old Top Gear episode where they tried to prove that a car can be art and failed to win over the art folk they had on the show. Obviously it was done for laughs, but the point was solid. A car CAN be art despite being mass-produced, but cars that achieve that level of beauty or uniqueness are quite rare.

So, the serious question is: What is your car to you? Is it a status item? Fodder for Instagram more than a device to experience? I'm not looking for why you don't like the G8x, that's been made clear by tons of people, I'm looking for why the device matters less than the shape. Why do the aesthetic factors override the functional factors of the device (for you or anyone else that wants to actually answer the question)?

Last comment to try and make it clear that I'm not trying to start a war here: Whatever your answer is, as long as the answer works for your life and makes you happy, that's all that matters.
For me, the car must look good and be fun to drive. I've owned cars all over the spectrum, from a 1000+ hp F100 to a Cadillac hearse barely powerful enough to get out of its own way.

My current daily is the aging F80 and it's replacement must be equally fun to drive and styling to match. While looks are obviously subjective, if you don't get out and look back at the car and smile, you bought the wrong one. For me, the G80 doesn't do it. Other manufacturers might.

Narrow lap times aren't as critical as the overall fun factor. I've done enough track days to know that the fastest laps aren't typically done in the fastest cars, but by the most skilled drivers. Having bragging rights at the pub is meaningless if you can't personally back it up. With that in mind, having the slightly slower but to my eyes far better looking car such as the RS5 (which I haven't driven) may be better than the looks of the current G80.

The reason many have been outspoken on the looks like myself is due to disappointment. I love my F80 and was really excited for the new car. I was CERTAIN I'd order one but when the grill shots came, I was gutted. With electric cars marching on, this may be the last M I own, which is even more disappointing.
Do yourself a favour and get a M2 CS; you'll be amazed
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      11-19-2021, 06:42 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad View Post
In architecture, there is a dilemma for designers called form Vs function.

The question is, I guess, would you live in a mansion that looks like a dog house, or a house that looks like a mansion?

To me, personally, I'd like to think I would love getting into my car as much as I would getting out of it.

Let me elaborate: aesthetics is what would make me love getting into a good looking car, whereas performance is what would put a smile on my face when getting out of the car.

Just as in architecture, it's often difficult to achieve both in equal proportions, but if and when you do, you'll have a car that will be loved for time immemorial.

That's where Aston Martin, for example, shines - it has both the looks and performance and the resale price is indicative of that fact be it a DB4 or a DB9.

Obviously, this is hugely subjective, and as such, subject to interpretation.
If the interior of the "looks like a mansion" house wasn't very functional, or missing necessary features, I'd rather live in the functional dog house. Obviously, a mansion that looks like a mansion would be optimal, but either way the hot water heater needs to actually work and the roof has to keep the rain out.
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      11-26-2021, 10:13 AM   #41
Tremblay13
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I think it's probably pretty random for Mat. A car is available for a race, he grabs what he, his friends, and his other sources have available. The green M3 is his, so it's always available. Considering how much content Mat and many other YouTubers put out compared to the classic Top Gear or Magazine reviews that were supported by manufacturers, lots of lopsided races happen.
Note that he has driven tons of cars but chooses to own a G80…
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      11-26-2021, 04:21 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
I think it's probably pretty random for Mat. A car is available for a race, he grabs what he, his friends, and his other sources have available. The green M3 is his, so it's always available. Considering how much content Mat and many other YouTubers put out compared to the classic Top Gear or Magazine reviews that were supported by manufacturers, lots of lopsided races happen.
Note that he has driven tons of cars but chooses to own a G80…
I don't that would be the only car he owns, but yes, I take your point
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