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      06-27-2021, 04:18 AM   #1
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E9x vs. G8x (both 6MT)

Okay so I know not many people will be doing this comparison, but I've daily'ed an 08 E92 M3 for the past 6 years, and also just picked up my G82 M4 today; both 6MTs. And I'm noticing quite a few differences, let me know if you also have experience with both, and whether I'm going nuts or what I'm doing wrong..

I'll preface this with that the G82 is obviously still in break-in and I'm uhh... reluctant to repeatedly punch it to redline. Also, most dealers here don't allow test drives so I really didn't have much seat time before committing (test drove around one small block in SF...). But on the interweb there's nothing but praises after praises for this car, so I wasn't too concerned about whether this car will be "good".

First the engine response:
The car is fast, no question about that, and it pulls hard in the top end. However, I can't help but feel that the engine response is lacking. Now I know this is a turbo car, and I can't expect it to feel like an NA engine (i.e. like my E92, or an R8 or Huracan which I've test driven), but I feel like the G82's engine response isn't as good as say, the F8x's, or the 991.2's and 992's. I'd say it feels more like that of a mclaren 570s. I did put the engine response in sport plus, which admittedly is better, but what I said above still holds. Does anyone have experience with some/all of the cars I've listed above and can comment on this? With the G82 the power builds quickly but it doesn't kick you in the back like an E92 would, which makes the faster G82 feel a lot more tamed and perhaps less exciting and definitely less raw when compared to the E92's NA V8..

Next is the transmission (6MT):
Admittedly I've not driven that many high performance manual cars (last gen R8 V10, E92/F8x M3/4, 991.2), but the rev-hang in the G82 is crazyyyyy! Going from 1st to 2nd at... 4k rpm... clutch in and I have to wait forever for the revs to drop, else I'd lurch forward making for a pretty uncomfortable (and uncool looking) drive. Kinda reminds me of a wrx I drove a long time ago, and quite different than the other 6MT performance cars I mentioned above. Thoughts?


I'm sure objectively speaking the G82 is the better car compared to the E92, and it does make you realize how much tech has advanced in these 10+ years lol. But on second thought, maybe I'll keep my E92

Please, thoughts/opinions/anecdotal experiences?

Thanks!
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      06-27-2021, 08:06 PM   #2
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I will address the rev hang…turn off auto rev match and they drop pretty quickly.
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      06-27-2021, 08:53 PM   #3
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Don’t ever get rid of that E92 - such a gem!
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      06-27-2021, 08:55 PM   #4
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Coming from a Stage 2 M2C, I personally much prefer the smooth linear power delivery of the S58 and feels closer to that of an NA engine. There are no torque spikes and I always know what to expect from the throttle, as opposed to the "wild" and sometimes jerky response of the S55.

This engine and it's throttle mapping is one of the key reasons why this platform puts the power down so much better than F8x. More power down = faster

Sure, you can argue that the S55's wild character might make it feel more exciting to some people! Fair enough, but for me, as a track oriented driver, I much prefer the smoothness and more linear power delivery of the S58.

Smooth is fast!
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      06-27-2021, 09:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren720s View Post
Coming from a Stage 2 M2C, I personally much prefer the smooth linear power delivery of the S58 and feels closer to that of an NA engine. There are no torque spikes and I always know what to expect from the throttle, as opposed to the "wild" and sometimes jerky response of the S55.

This engine and it's throttle mapping is one of the key reasons why this platform puts the power down so much better than F8x. More power down = faster

Sure, you can argue that the S55's wild character might make it feel more exciting to some people! Fair enough, but for me, as a track oriented driver, I much prefer the smoothness and more linear power delivery of the S58.

Smooth is fast!
Agreed, i tracked an s58 pretty hard and loved the power delivery.
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      06-27-2021, 10:45 PM   #6
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Reading this thread makes me curious what putting a smaller more responsive turbo in the s58 would do.
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      06-27-2021, 11:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBbluem2 View Post
Reading this thread makes me curious what putting a smaller more responsive turbo in the s58 would do.
It would put it somewhere between S58 and S55. The pro to a smaller turbo is less lag, the con is usually less top end power. S58’s power delivery is a product of its design - lower compression ratio + bigger turbos = more power and top end at the expense of boost threshold and lag. S55 is about response, not pure power - hence the perceived “spikiness” and why tuning its top end is very hard on stock turbos. S58 is about power, specifically in the upper half of the tach. Which is more linear or NA feeling? Well I would say S55 has a more NA-like throttle response while S58 has a more NA-like power band.

What would really be a game changer would be fitting an e-turbo to S58 which would always ensure the turbos are pre-spooled which would give it insane response and maintain the more linear power band!
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      06-28-2021, 02:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBbluem2 View Post
Reading this thread makes me curious what putting a smaller more responsive turbo in the s58 would do.
It would put it somewhere between S58 and S55. The pro to a smaller turbo is less lag, the con is usually less top end power. S58's power delivery is a product of its design - lower compression ratio + bigger turbos = more power and top end at the expense of boost threshold and lag. S55 is about response, not pure power - hence the perceived "spikiness" and why tuning its top end is very hard on stock turbos. S58 is about power, specifically in the upper half of the tach. Which is more linear or NA feeling? Well I would say S55 has a more NA-like throttle response while S58 has a more NA-like power band.

What would really be a game changer would be fitting an e-turbo to S58 which would always ensure the turbos are pre-spooled which would give it insane response and maintain the more linear power band!
https://torqamp.com/use-cases/

Very interesting
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      06-28-2021, 09:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBbluem2 View Post
Yup! Or this (good synopsis of how it works)

https://www.borgwarner.com/technolog...g-technologies

Sorry OP don’t mean to derail the thread!
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      11-07-2021, 03:30 PM   #10
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Comparing apples to oranges
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      11-19-2021, 12:30 PM   #11
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I haven't had my 6mt E92 since I sold it in 2015 but that motor, with its ITBs and no turbo will always beat the S58 in response. I'm out of break-in and can say the S58 does feel pretty good when above 4k rpm in its response. I prefer the power delivery of this motor over that of the N55 I had in my OG M2; and I like it better than the S55 in my previous F80, too.

As for the manual, rev hang is there but as the one poster said, turning off auto rev match makes it better. I will say it feels great when you hook up and nail that 1-2 shift in the G80... it just pulls hard and feels great! Much better than the same event in the M2.
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      11-20-2021, 02:16 AM   #12
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Man I can't wait for that feeling.
Power and finesse
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      01-17-2023, 09:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
I haven't had my 6mt E92 since I sold it in 2015 but that motor, with its ITBs and no turbo will always beat the S58 in response. I'm out of break-in and can say the S58 does feel pretty good when above 4k rpm in its response. I prefer the power delivery of this motor over that of the N55 I had in my OG M2; and I like it better than the S55 in my previous F80, too.

As for the manual, rev hang is there but as the one poster said, turning off auto rev match makes it better. I will say it feels great when you hook up and nail that 1-2 shift in the G80... it just pulls hard and feels great! Much better than the same event in the M2.
Too bad, I love how direct the throttle is in the S65.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
It would put it somewhere between S58 and S55. The pro to a smaller turbo is less lag, the con is usually less top end power. S58’s power delivery is a product of its design - lower compression ratio + bigger turbos = more power and top end at the expense of boost threshold and lag. S55 is about response, not pure power - hence the perceived “spikiness” and why tuning its top end is very hard on stock turbos. S58 is about power, specifically in the upper half of the tach. Which is more linear or NA feeling? Well I would say S55 has a more NA-like throttle response while S58 has a more NA-like power band.

Was really hoping the S58 had both going for it

Throttle response and 7,500+ rpms redline really makes a manual car exceptional to me.
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      01-17-2023, 10:47 PM   #14
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You’re pointing out the essentials of NA vs Turbo. Gotta own both😜. I really want to text a G8x but after putting a blower on the E90, it’s going to be tough to ever let it go.
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      01-17-2023, 11:10 PM   #15
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Now that I have had the G80 I don’t miss the E92 for a few reasons. The power delivery of the S58 and the punch that is available at almost any rev in any gear is substantial and makes the car really easy to drive fast.
The E92M was fun from a standpoint of acoustics and initial throttle response, however that engine didn’t deliver the punch especially in the lower rev range for around town driving.
In addition, it has been a joy to rev the S58 with its familiar power band (linear) knowing of its inherent reliability. Part of the reason I was happy to let go of the E92 was I did not want to deal with those rod bearings or the possibility of an engine seizing. I know that’s borrowing trouble, but it really did impact my enjoyment of the car.
I did enjoy the power band in the upper rev ranges of the S65, but the power and torque of this S58 leaves nothing to be desired. It is also the reason I went with the 6MT, to control throttle and the release of power into the gears. To have that connection with this car has been a lot of fun.
So I haven’t looked back to the E92 with the G80. Also, the chassis of the G80 cannot be denied as being so intuitive and sharp in handling. The E92 was a great car, but this one will be the keeper into retirement. I consider myself fortunate to have owned both.
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      01-18-2023, 03:04 PM   #16
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The E90 is last 3 series with hydraulic steering, and it has better steering response and feel compared to my G80 M3, even in sports steering mode.
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