[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Well in the UK, the only M4 we can get is an M4 competition. That car with no options is c.£80k. The M4 CSL costs c.£126k, so OK 60% more than the car we can get. But it has stuff in it that would bring the price of the M4 Comp close to £100k and it has a load of bespoke stuff that you can't get on the M4 Comp.

E46 CSL didn't have carbon ceramics for example. It was much closer to the M3 at the time which is why it was slated when it first came out.

In effect, the issue that most people have with the CSL is the fact that it's called a CSL, which is just odd. It doesn't matter what it's called. All that matters is - what is it like to drive? And it should be very, very good to drive from what I've seen so far.

I agree, considering how good the regular M4 is I can only imagine what a beast the CSL is. Maybe with rear seats and without the "L" in the name it would have been perfect, fairly priced and with street tires it would have been the ultimate street car.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

I agree, considering how good the regular M4 is I can only imagine what a beast the CSL is. Maybe with rear seats and without the "L" in the name it would have been perfect, fairly priced and with street tires it would have been the ultimate street car.

Easy to change tires. Getting the Cup2Rs but planning to get another set of rims for mine with PS4s for November to May… It looks like it will be delivered in the winter so will switch rims right away.
I would have liked the roll cage for the track,like in the GTS, though…
I know it is a weight thing….

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

I agree, considering how good the regular M4 is I can only imagine what a beast the CSL is. Maybe with rear seats and without the "L" in the name it would have been perfect, fairly priced and with street tires it would have been the ultimate street car.

I'm thinking the M3 CS will be an awesome bit of kit. But I can't have one of those as well sadly. Need to get richer!

But I genuinely believe that I'm going to really love the CSL. It will be close to perfect for me. Hopefully next year I'll have a nigh on perfect 3 car garage.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Generally, I prefer a manual (unless on track) then I don't care about the transmission as long as it's fast. An auto is an auto at the end of the day, no skill required to change gear, just want it to select the gear I want when I want it without blowing up the engine.

Come on now you know the manual is better.

[ScullyD]

Passages from the Top Gear Speed Week issue that just came out. They just did not like the car at all.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

The CSL is a great car I just don't think it is a true homage to the original and they left a lot on the table.

You are absolutely right, because it isn't. There is a Homage CSL which has only 50 hand-built specimen each of which was sold at around $600k

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

Come on now you know the manual is better.

I love a manual car - true. Would generally pick manual over auto where the manual is available but on track? Well there, I'm happy with either - an auto gives me the advantage of focussing more on my lines, I guess - a manual is still more rewarding.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Passages from the Top Gear Speed Week issue that just came out. They just did not like the car at all.

Yeah - and said "I hated it on sight", so not exactly a decent evaluation. Top Gear is not one of my "go to" places for car reviews though. The way they review cars is generally just weird. They're constantly trying to sound like Clarkson but failing because they don't have Clarkson's charisma. And Clarkson is not a great evaluator of cars either - he just says what he wants to be controversial.

[VIERsr]

Evo UK is on the same page, just a little less rude and more diplomatic.

The CSL feels different to an M4 Comp, that’s for sure, even if the old GTS was clearly an altogether more focussed product.

Carrying that iconic, deeply evocative name can’t help but raise expectations. In combination with the recent form of the M Division – the M2 CS and M5 CS are truly fantastic cars – I was extremely excited about the M4 CSL. In the end, it impresses at times but doesn’t seem to possess the pure magic of recent CS models. The crazy intensity of the M4 GTS is missing, too. Maybe a summer’s day and some sticky Cup 2Rs would help but for now the CSL doesn’t seem enough to celebrate the enormity of 50 years of M. Can we have an M2 CSL, please? Or another M4 GTS?

While the M2CS and M5CS (both ECOTY) received positive opinions from everyone, this CSL is less appreciated. Maybe because for the same money you can't get anything better or similar to an M2/M5CS, whereas for the same money as an M4 CSL, you can.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Evo UK is on the same page, just a little less rude and more diplomatic.





While the M2CS and M5CS (both ECOTY) received positive opinions from everyone, this CSL is less appreciated. Maybe because for the same money you can't get anything better or similar to an M2/M5CS, whereas for the same money as an M4 CSL, you can.

I know exactly what you mean but the reality is that the only car you can get which is definitely better than the CSL, is the 992 GT3 except that's only in theory. In practice, you can't get a 992 GT3, so the only car available that does the job I want it to do, that is also available to an ordinary Joe like me, is the CSL. If I could get a 992 GT3 at list price, I definitely would, in a heartbeat, but I can't, so it's a moot point.

Also, they all say that the CSL is better than the standard car but it's not worth paying £50k extra for it.

I remember when the 911 GT3 RS 4.0 came out, I was fortunate enough to drive it back to back with a 997.2 GT3 RS and they were both awesome. The guy taking me around the track said that the RS 4.0 wasn't worth the delta of £30k. IMHO he was wrong, the difference was noticeable to me and it remains to this day, the best car I have ever driven, to say I loved it is a massive understatement. Is it worth the near £300k delta between the cars now? Not to me but that's because I don't have the means, if I did, then yep, sure all day everyday - that car is peak 911 GT3RS, I'd rather have that than any other GT3RS including the latest 992 GT3RS from Porsche. It is stunningly good.

So in short, the CSL may well be worth the £50k delta if you can feel a genuine difference - I'm quite sensitive to these things, I know because I've driven versions of the same car back to back and can feel the difference, so it's possible that I will really like the CSL. Still need to drive it myself before making a judgment though.

[gnx]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Yeah - and said "I hated it on sight", so not exactly a decent evaluation. Top Gear is not one of my "go to" places for car reviews though. The way they review cars is generally just weird. They're constantly trying to sound like Clarkson but failing because they don't have Clarkson's charisma. And Clarkson is not a great evaluator of cars either - he just says what he wants to be controversial.

The truth is that they probably hated it ever since they saw the red stripes at the unveiling (Not a fan of those either). I am sure they hated the price as well, but these are not driving impressions.

What I hate is the monotonous bemoaning about weight.(There is another British journalist that has busted our balls for 2 years with the renault alpine and it's weight advantage, and nothing drives like the renault, yada yada yada). We do not give a shit, I do not want a 4 cylinder renault engine.

1625 kilos for this car is a very reasonable figure. I think that Sport Auto that bothers enough to weigh the cars during their Super Test, measured the standard manual car at 1674kg, if my memory serves me well. That figure is decent as well. They gave 9 stars out of 10 for the standard M4 Comp and the consensus is that the car hides it's weight rather well.

My manual big brake M2 comp weighs 1600 kilos. Weight is not an issue either on the road or track (with tires and pads). My M coupe weighs 1425 kgs, it feels a bit lighter than the M2 under load but that's about it. The 1600 kilo car behaves better and is faster.

I also hate the continuous bitching about the thickness of the steering rim and that supposedly it robs steering feel. The Z4M is the only bmw i know that does have a steering wheel that is indeed too thick. But it is a great car, otherwise. And it weighs less that an m3 csl in reality. No M3 CSL weighs 1385 kilos the way that no F82 M4 weighs 1497 kilos.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by gnx

The truth is that they probably hated it ever since they saw the red stripes at the unveiling (Not a fan of those either). I am sure they hated the price as well, but these are not driving impressions.

What I hate is the monotonous bemoaning about weight.(There is another British journalist that has busted our balls for 2 years with the renault alpine and it's weight advantage, and nothing drives like the renault, yada yada yada). We do not give a shit, I do not want a 4 cylinder renault engine.

1625 kilos for this car is a very reasonable figure. I think that Sport Auto that bothers enough to weigh the cars during their Super Test, measured the standard manual car at 1674kg, if my memory serves me well. That figure is decent as well. They gave 9 stars out of 10 for the standard M4 Comp and the consensus is that the car hides it's weight rather well.

My manual big brake M2 comp weighs 1600 kilos. Weight is not an issue either on the road or track (with tires and pads). My M coupe weighs 1425 kgs, it feels a bit lighter than the M2 under load but that's about it. The 1600 kilo car behaves better and is faster.

I also hate the continuous bitching about the thickness of the steering rim and that supposedly it robs steering feel. The Z4M is the only bmw i know that does have a steering wheel that is indeed too thick. But it is a great car, otherwise. And it weighs less that an m3 csl in reality. No M3 CSL weighs 1385 kilos the way that no F82 M4 weighs 1497 kilos.

Amen to that, brother! The Alpine is not for me - far too much money for what it is. If I was going down the lightweight route, might as well go all out and get a Caterham 620R - that thing is sensational to drive but compromised in every other way!

[VIERsr]

To say that weight is not an issue is quite a statement, and above all it makes the manufacturers who strive to keep weight down look stupid.
If the heavier M2 behaves better than the lighter Z4M, perhaps (!) it is thanks to 15 years of progress in chassis, tires, electronics and so on?
It seems that the M2 drives better because it is heavier.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

To say that weight is not an issue is quite a statement, and above all it makes the manufacturers who strive to keep weight down look stupid.
If the heavier M2 behaves better than the lighter Z4M, perhaps (!) it is thanks to 15 years of progress in chassis, tires, electronics and so on?
It seems that the M2 drives better because it is heavier.

I think the point here is that weight is not the be all and end all. There are rubbish cars that are light and great cars that are heavy - weight is just one facet. Sure a car that is ostensibly the same as another except for being lighter, should be better to drive but the mass of the car on its own doesn't tell the full story.

[ChrisM4]

I know this is a different league of car altogether but some of these elements could have been added to the M4 CSL like I mentioned above in my post. (Roll bar, more aero bits, etc.)

Either the bean counters (or timing to develop the car) constrained the engineers because I'm sure they had all sorts of amazing ideas on what to do with the car.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

I know this is a different league of car altogether but some of these elements could have been added to the M4 CSL like I mentioned above in my post. (Roll bar, more aero bits, etc.)

Either the bean counters (or timing to develop the car) constrained the engineers because I'm sure they had all sorts of amazing ideas on what to do with the car.

The ethos is different - this is ultimate track car that you can drive on the road (and my goodness what a machine BTW!!!), whereas the CSL is ultimate road car that you can really enjoy on track.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

https://youtu.be/l_9F8UgWa7Y

The ethos is different - this is ultimate track car that you can drive on the road (and my goodness what a machine BTW!!!), whereas the CSL is ultimate road car that you can really enjoy on track.[/QUOTE]

Very well put Hornett

[ScullyD]

The full EVO review is out, buy it or read on apple news. It's decidedly more positive than the review on the EVO website. But there are concerns.

[PLF69]

Please stop with the roll bar/cage thing, there are legislation restraints in many countries that prevent manufacturers from delivering a car with rock hard tubing that could crush your skull inside the car incase of an accident.


As for the weight argument it's funny how they act like 1LE, GT350s, GTRs etc. Don't exist

I mean, BMW did there homework, ppl (not only forums) wanted more of everything, more size, more safety, more power, more grip, more tech, more luxury/insulation. It would be hard to believe they could deliver all this without more weight vs the F series...

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

The full EVO review is out, buy it or read on apple news. It's decidedly more positive than the review on the EVO website. But there are concerns.

Haven't received my subscription yet? Should get it soon, hopefully.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by Jason

More M4 CSL reviews are now here. This is a compiled list to-date:

[SIZE="5"]ARTICLES[/SIZE]

Autocar
Autoexpress
Car and Driver
CAR
EVO
Pistonheads
Top Gear




[SIZE="5"]VIDEOS[/SIZE]

Those reviews are definitely all over the place…
Nothing from Chris Harris or Randy Pobst yet?
Need some track reviews!

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Those reviews are definitely all over the place…
Nothing from Chris Harris or Randy Pobst yet?
Need some track reviews!

Got my EVO today (think there's been an issue with the post).

Anyway, the magazine description of the car is a LOT better. They even describe a short track session.

I think the car needs to be tested with the proper buckets and the Cup 2R tyres it was developed on. It also needs a spanking on track to get a true sense of its capabilities.

Personally, I think in the correct spec, it will be an awesome bit of kit. That's maybe why when Autocar tested it (on Cup 2R) they thought it was awesome.

In any case it will be interesting to read the reviews of the car in the right spec.