05-21-2019, 02:02 PM | #353 | |
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05-21-2019, 02:16 PM | #354 | |
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VW / Audi / Porsche / Bentley Many brands for different buyers Cooper / BMW / Rolls BMW's competition is Audi, not Porsche or VW BMW's future is electric and self-driving....AND FEWS MODELS BY USING MODULAR PLATFORMS I imagine the purist similarly complained as cars began to replace horses. How did that work out? And as I type this Autozone was just upgraded by Analysts as recent reports show people holding onto their cars longer. |
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05-21-2019, 02:34 PM | #355 | |
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Think of it like Porsche makings every Boxster buyer take a hardtop. We make a coupe too, we just assume you wanted one even though you chose a convertible. Your assumption is that some of us wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a 3400 pound car and a 3550 pound car. Maybe they can just start selling the M3 with an extra adult. We thought you'd like a new friend too. |
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05-21-2019, 02:36 PM | #356 | |
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05-21-2019, 02:45 PM | #357 | |
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I drove an M with no spare and lifetime roadside because BMW wanted to save weight. Now they're just going to bolt up awd and further f up their steering feel just because some northerners want it? |
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05-21-2019, 02:46 PM | #358 |
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05-21-2019, 02:47 PM | #360 | |
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05-21-2019, 03:14 PM | #361 | |
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Personally, I'm excited for hybrid performance with AWD but I definitely get the RWD argument. In fact I'm more likely to buy a new BMW M car If it's AWD or hybrid. I don't really see a reason to spend the money for the nu-BMW F gen cars. |
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05-21-2019, 04:21 PM | #362 |
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BMW should make the M3 as pure as can be, with three pedals. Make it the ultimate daily driving machine.
Then give us fans a M4 GC with the AWD and all the other goodies to get as close to what the M5 has. This will solve all the problems |
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05-21-2019, 07:05 PM | #363 |
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Some % of M3/M4 customers will switch to the M2 if the G80 doesn't meet their requirements. There is certainly overlap between the two markets and I would expect more if the G80 abandons certain enthusiast preferred options/layouts.
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05-21-2019, 07:31 PM | #364 |
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Many 1M owners own F80's. Many 911 owners own F80's.
You never know when a job, family situation, other, will make you need/want a sedan that seats 5. As to your point about BMW being a mainstream car company. When you have a division like M that enhances it's appeal to the SUV buyer - The image of sporty driving dynamics is extremely valuable. The image of the 911 helps sell other variants of Porsche. Same with the iconic M3. Makes the Msport X5 (that is advertised as the 'Ultimate Driving Machine') more appealing, because M coincides with Motorsport, making the Mline seem more sporty/aggressive. There is certainly a considerable value attached to that in the automotive world. There is a reason that every manufacturer has a (sporty) badge that can be given to other model variants, almost always derived from the brands sportiest vehicles. |
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05-21-2019, 08:39 PM | #366 | |
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05-21-2019, 08:40 PM | #367 | |
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05-22-2019, 12:40 PM | #368 |
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We do not know, my hunch is that they will still offer a manual since they (BMW) have intimated thoroughly that they will, but there has been an adjustment of sorts, where the Pure, Base, Comp has been rearranged and a variant might be eliminated, probably Pure or Base.
The insider said he will no longer confirm manual, but take rates on 6MT F80’s was ~ 30% in North America the largest M3 market in the World, so it would be asinine not to offer the M3 in a manual. The take rate for M2 has been ~ 50% so 6MT is doing well recently, as opposed to Audi dropping it from the S4/A4 where take rates were below 10% in North America which is sad. IMO, no way BMW tells ~ 30% of NA buyers to check out the competition, it makes no sense to not offer a 6MT, but it does not hurt to let your feelings be expressed. BMW! Give us three pedals!!! |
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05-22-2019, 03:14 PM | #369 |
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There is absolutely no way I would buy the G80 with that boring ZF transmission.
Give me a 7MT in a CS or competition package with M drive where I can opt for the RWD option, and I will pay a premium for it. |
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05-22-2019, 03:27 PM | #370 | |
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1. It seems like, partially it's a self fulfilled prophecy. Same as what happened with 3 series MT. Dealers just wouldn't order them, no availability to test drive a MT. So the take rate decreased to nothing and then they could proclaim "no one wanted them so no more 3-er MT" 2. Audi is a different breed of customers, usually the opposite of BMW drivers. I'd say Tesla will steal more tree-huggers from Audi then BMW. Also I've driven A4 6MT for shits and giggles - awful, glad they dropped it. Again they probably made it disgusting on purpose so no one would buy it and they could say the take rate is low. |
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05-23-2019, 06:21 AM | #371 | |
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Same here. Mines manual and I would never buy a sports car in auto. There's just no fun in driving. For that I'll stick with my daily civic as my beater |
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05-23-2019, 10:21 AM | #372 | |
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Drives: G87 M2; E92M3 MT&DCT; M3 euro
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You will be surprised how much more nimble a car is without the additional 70-80kg in drivetrain components. Weight is also the main reason why regularly tracked 911s are almost never AWD models despite the rear engine layout which inherently reduces front end grip.
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05-23-2019, 10:56 AM | #373 |
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Porsche kept 911 as close to its origin as possible to know that it's a 911 regardless of its generation. M3 was up their with them in terms of driving experience and heritage. I did not understand their deviation from the original M3 to M4. Now I'm beginning to see why..
Maybe they decided to divide the lineups because they felt too much pressure to live up to "M3" name. Now I get more confident in my hypothesis as they try to make M3 the lesser M5. I can tell the current M division is nowhere as enthusiastic as of the older members. They've been saying some shit like "hardware component doesn't matter. What matters is fine tuning." That doesn't explain why the likes of Albert Biermann or Bernhard Gobmeier pushed "like crazy" for new M engines every era, CFRP driveshaft, bolt on rear subframe and DCT. They understood that more focused hardware are what exploit the vast potential of an M car. Not tuning the shit out of a ZF torque converter. It's such difference in focus and spirit of Motorsport that attracted customers for decades.. Not the stupid ads like M Town.
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05-23-2019, 01:29 PM | #374 |
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Pure was a perfect name for a perfect addition to the M3 models. Something for everyone and similar to Porsche’s GT3/4 models. I wouldn’t think the idea is dead though, likely just a delay to not have too much going on at the same time.
I think the Nissan GT-R shocked BMW and from there an AWD M3 Model was inevitable. Performance matters for bragging rights and track times and my guess is that there is a significant pool of M3 buyers who put one or the other as their No. 1. criteria. It takes serious amount of downforce and lightness for an RWD car to make up for the traction deficit more downforce than most road cars can muster. Personally I rate “feel” way higher than performance and I’m firmly in the purist camp and agree it would be a pity if slush box and AWD are the only options going forward. |
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