[Wanderer73]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Looks like all of those "big screen" BMW retrofits that people did really came back and bit us all in the ass with iDrive 8.

I bet all the people in focus groups said "we want an ipad sized screen like a Tesla"

The least they could have done is to angle the outside edges/corners on the screen like the iX1, so it doesn't look like a warped board was dropped into the dash.

I'm in if they ever bring this to the US!

[mthreesixty3]

Originally Posted by Erebor

Ahh, now i think i get what you guys mean with "sluggish". You don't mean slow or slow responding, which it clearly isnt. Mine shifts withtin the blink of an eye, I can't tell a difference in shiftspeed between ZF8 and DCT.
But yes, the DCT gives a forward momentum while closing the clutch, the ZF8 doesn't.
But do you guys all have the latest update on your bimmer? BMW has lately retuned the ZF8. I have it in mine, since its a March production car, and it never felt as bad as all the ppl described it to be. It also sounds different while shifting.

There is still a lag from when you hit the paddle to when the shift executes

[mthreesixty3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The thing is with the ZF8 is that the planetary clutch packs are not sturdy enough to handle an all out power shift, the engine power therefore needs to be momentarily reduced while the power is passed from one planetary clutch pack to the other. The car’s acceleration is reduced during the upshift, giving it that perception of lag/sluggishness. The main DCT clutches are built to launch the car from rest, so they have no problem handling an all out powershift, recuperating the inertia of the engine rpm drop in the process to give a short surge of acceleration during the shift, giving it that positive feel. We have the ZF8 in our RS6 and it feels sluggish compared to a good dual clutch. I’ve also driven my buddies M5 on track, same sluggish feeling.

This makes some sense but I thought the ZF8 was used because it could handle the power?

I only notice this during WOT and near redline, which is the opposite of a dual clutch. It's almost like the ZF8 shifts faster when @ 1/2 redline.

But for example, 6500 RPM, shift lights come on, if I shift at 6900, I hit the rev limiter, so how is it "slowing down?"

Seems like the system doesn't register the shift IMO

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by mthreesixty3

This makes some sense but I thought the ZF8 was used because it could handle the power?

I only notice this during WOT and near redline, which is the opposite of a dual clutch. It's almost like the ZF8 shifts faster when @ 1/2 redline.

But for example, 6500 RPM, shift lights come on, if I shift at 6900, I hit the rev limiter, so how is it "slowing down?"

Seems like the system doesn't register the shift IMO

That power/torque limitation of DCT excuse is total BS. Look at the power and torque figures of the Bugatti Chiron and it has a DCT. The vast majority of high end sport/super/hyper cars use DCT, there’s a reason for that. The real reason BMW shifted to ZF8 is that BMW did not have an off the shelf DCT that fit the application and torque requirements of their ///M product lineup, so they decided to use the run of mill the ZF8 instead in investing in a new DCT design. They figured the cost benefit was not worth it for them.

There are two elements that come into play regarding the stress on the clutches: torque and rpm drop. The higher the rpm shift point, the bigger the rpm drop going into the next gear and the more slip the clutch needs to endure, hence the greater the power reduction and the longer the shift time.

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

I would love to replace my F31 by a G81 but since bmw fail to recognize difference between Canadian market and American market we'll be stuck with the pointless X3M instead. I guess that the RS6 is the only solution.

I would be willing to sacrifice 5" in cargo height to get into an M3 Touring but the X3M is anything but pointless. NYC family of 5 + a Malinois with only one parking space available (also good size for NYC street parking) means you need a do it all vehicle. City carving, family duty with some light off road excursions, spirited driving and track fun with friends all rolled into one.

IMO the only major advantage my X3MC has is its rear cargo height so my dog doesn't have to crawl around in the boot and is able to fully sit up.

Driving dynamics would obviously go to the M3 Touring making it arguably the best do it all BMW. Big sadface I won't be able to enjoy this in the US but looking forward to picking one up in Greece.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by kozzi

I would be willing to sacrifice 5" in cargo height to get into an M3 Touring but the X3M is anything but pointless. NYC family of 5 + a Malinois with only one parking space available (also good size for NYC street parking) means you need a do it all vehicle. City carving, family duty with some light off road excursions, spirited driving and track fun with friends all rolled into one.

IMO the only major advantage my X3MC has is its rear cargo height so my dog doesn't have to crawl around in the boot and is able to fully sit up.

Driving dynamics would obviously go to the M3 Touring making it arguably the best do it all BMW. Big sadface I won't be able to enjoy this in the US but looking forward to picking one up in Greece.

There's another very relevant advantage for we NYC-area residents. SUVs have a heavier duty chassis and handle our horrible roads much better. An X3M is going to withstand the abuse of crappy roads much better than an M3T.

[Neptune7]

It bothers me that the X5M and X3M do not have a tow hitch in the US. How do folks carry bikes around or tow? There was a thread where someone made changes to get this working, but it should come out of the factory as an option. What's the point of an SUV that you can't use, as a utility.

I assume the wagon is practical besides being cool

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by mthreesixty3

There is still a lag from when you hit the paddle to when the shift executes

Is there really? I dont notice any. I didnt notice any with the DCT aswell, it was equally quick. But maybe you expect it to shift just before you hit the paddle or something. Mine really is fast and I dont have any lag while shifting. Maybe if I provoke a shift while low on rpm and throttle, then it is a bit slower. But while accelerating it shifts instant.
I am really starting to believe we dont drive the same software version of the ZF8 tranny.

And also, yes, the DCT was really bulletproof and could handle lots of torque. Only reason BMW decided for the ZF8 was better daily drivabilities and the option to bolt an xDrive system on it.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by kozzi

That looks sick!!! Bring it to the US please!

PLEASE!

Yes indeed but minus the hideous iDrive 8 screen...

[mthreesixty3]

Originally Posted by Erebor

Is there really? I dont notice any. I didnt notice any with the DCT aswell, it was equally quick. But maybe you expect it to shift just before you hit the paddle or something. Mine really is fast and I dont have any lag while shifting. Maybe if I provoke a shift while low on rpm and throttle, then it is a bit slower. But while accelerating it shifts instant.
I am really starting to believe we dont drive the same software version of the ZF8 tranny.

And also, yes, the DCT was really bulletproof and could handle lots of torque. Only reason BMW decided for the ZF8 was better daily drivabilities and the option to bolt an xDrive system on it.

I mean you can see it in EVERY SINGLE REVIEW of the car.

Look @19:41 for the lag between when he shifts and it executes - he's able to take his hand fully off after shift and it STILL hasn't executed.

Here @12:38 he starts talking about it

[xmanpro]

Is this a station wagon m3?

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by mthreesixty3

I mean you can see it in EVERY SINGLE REVIEW of the car.

Look @19:41 for the lag between when he shifts and it executes - he's able to take his hand fully off after shift and it STILL hasn't executed.

Here @12:38 he starts talking about it

Yes you are right, i see it in this video. But it doesnt happen when I shift. It does when I set the transmission manually into S1 or S2, then it's ridicoulosly slow. But that's why it automatically goes into S3 whenever you put it in manual mode.
Only then it is quick.

[mthreesixty3]

Originally Posted by Erebor

Yes you are right, i see it in this video. But it doesnt happen when I shift. It does when I set the transmission manually into S1 or S2, then it's ridicoulosly slow. But that's why it automatically goes into S3 whenever you put it in manual mode.
Only then it is quick.

Gotcha - maybe they upgraded the tuning online since this?

I know the X-drive has the DSG fart on the upshift which I like!

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Too few people in the US willing to buy a $100k performance wagon. People will dream tho.

It just works for Audi, Mercedes, Volvo, and Porsche. Won't work for bmw.

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by mthreesixty3

Gotcha - maybe they upgraded the tuning online since this?

I know the X-drive has the DSG fart on the upshift which I like!

They probably did. I got a big software update for the M4 while doing the break-in service. They didnt tell me the specifics, but the shifts felt different since then. Also, the xdrive has the minor dsg farts, yes. I would assume that everyone with a comp can get that new software version?

[Likeanowl]

Okay but seriously… what is the hype about a performance station wagon? Like what is the draw here over the standard sedan/coupe? I don’t get it

[DBV]

Originally Posted by Likeanowl

Okay but seriously… what is the hype about a performance station wagon? Like what is the draw here over the standard sedan/coupe? I don’t get it

I think it's more of a "you either get it or don't get it" kind of thing.

Considering the only long roof performance car available in the US is the RS6 (please correct me if I'm wrong), it's unsaturated market. While the take on the Touring would be small I'm sure, it would still be cool to have the option.

I remember spending a week with a CTS-V wagon back in 2011 and loving that thing. Something about having the utility of an SUV with sportscar performance just ticks so many boxes for me.

[330d Beast]

School drop off is never going to be the same 😂

[Ragged Edge]

Originally Posted by FC05

No a wagon doesn't need manual gearbox.
Germans think rationally and practically, if you want driving engagement and want the control of the driving you may well just take M3/M4 with stick, the wagon is more about performance with practicality it's gotta be auto and ZF is easily much faster than manual.
I also miss those shortcut programable buttons, I wish they can be done the same over the touchscreen too.
And for you asking about the M car display on OS8
I found this on another M2 clip that might worth to see.

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but fortunately the Germans are rational and understand people want to enjoy driving. They have built manual transmissions for their estates in the past, because my last German estate had a manual transmission and my current M3 has a manual, as well as my Defender 110.
You need to understand that driving for me isn't about speed, or being coddled by an automatic in traffic…. it's about engagement and feeling the machine and controlling the machine. I don't need to save 1 second of lap time with an auto. I am not an F1 driver… if I want that experience, I get it during race weekends in my shifter kart, or one of the 15 weekends/year I take the M3 to the track. It is the very reason I fly my aerobatic aircraft on my time off from the airlines…. there is no feel with automation.

[Graves]

Originally Posted by mthreesixty3

I mean you can see it in EVERY SINGLE REVIEW of the car.

Look @19:41 for the lag between when he shifts and it executes - he's able to take his hand fully off after shift and it STILL hasn't executed.

Here @12:38 he starts talking about it

I met AutotopNL at the Mosselman BMW event in the Netherlands. Cool ass dudes.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by kozzi

I would be willing to sacrifice 5" in cargo height to get into an M3 Touring but the X3M is anything but pointless. NYC family of 5 + a Malinois with only one parking space available (also good size for NYC street parking) means you need a do it all vehicle. City carving, family duty with some light off road excursions, spirited driving and track fun with friends all rolled into one.

IMO the only major advantage my X3MC has is its rear cargo height so my dog doesn't have to crawl around in the boot and is able to fully sit up.

Driving dynamics would obviously go to the M3 Touring making it arguably the best do it all BMW. Big sadface I won't be able to enjoy this in the US but looking forward to picking one up in Greece.

As a so it all vehicule it hard to beat the package of the X3M. But as you said a part from the offroad part a M3 Touring would do everything just as good if not better. What i don't like about sport CUV is that they are the jack of all trade but the master of none. I used to live in the city and have a very limited parking space so i get your point. But now i have a 3 cars garage so i get the 1M as the sport car the touring for everyday use and the 4 runner for offroad duty

[G30M]

Originally Posted by FC4

People pretend to like wagons on the internet because it signals to others that they're anti-SUV. Car enthusiasts aren't supposed to like SUVs.

i tell you why.

i went to the shop to buy the M40i (X3), it was the car i need - gear, 3 kids, dog etc

but i walked out with the M340i touring.

why?

- X3 felt heavy like a bus vs more nimble
- handled like a truck vs sports car
- seating position upright/bench vs relaxed/sculpted seats
- harsh ride (stiffer suspension to support the truck)

so i drive the Touring, ordered a model Y for the family.