[Bimmerfun82]

Comments on this post are pure gold and restore my faith in humanity. Jason Camisa should read these.

snapped a pic - blocked names just in case that's a thing on bimmerpost. I couldn't find a positive comment about the Tesla

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...00993324421624

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Comments on this post are pure gold and restore my faith in humanity. Jason Camisa should read these.

snapped a pic - blocked names just in case that's a thing on bimmerpost. I couldn't find a positive comment about the Tesla

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...00993324421624

I mean, outside of a Tesla club page, where do you expect any support for EV's on social media? Especially tired of the "microwave cooks faster but the grill tastes better" attempt at a comparison. Which is not apt whatsoever. I guarantee most of those commenters have never driven an EV of any kind. I wouldn't wipe my a@@ with these comments.

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

Nice try with the "New gen is almost entirely focused on track improvements" Who will want to drive a 5000+ lbs car doing braking, turn, apex and exit all day on track. It may be fun to watch but not sitting in the driver seat as a driver

Here were my experience with years of tracking in different cars:

more weight= Greater level of inertia - less willingness to change direction. Anything you do to combat this resistance to change motion will ultimately be a compromise, such as increased toe angle. Thus you have to setup the car in a way that a lighter car may not have to be compromised for, if you want the same level of responsiveness.

more weight transfer in cornering/accelerating/braking meaning two things: suspension geometry is more affected by aforementioned changes, and total grip is reduced due to tire load sensitivity (which states the coefficient of friction for a tire actually reduces when more load applied). Weight causes more drop off in grip during changes of direction/acceleration

more weight means higher thermal load, meaning more cooling requirements, which can potentially strain the system for more competitive driving.

the weight of heavier duty components in both the suspension and brakes can result in two negative factors: greater rotational mass and greater unsprung mass, both of which negatively affect handling/feel

Yeah, except you forgot the fact that a Model 3 performance is only 60 lbs heavier than an M3 Comp xDrive. And it's 4,050, not 5,000 lbs. So by that measure, we shouldn't track our M3's either.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I mean, outside of a Tesla club page, where do you expect any support for EV's on social media? Especially tired of the "microwave cooks faster but the grill tastes better" attempt at a comparison. Which is not apt whatsoever. I guarantee most of those commenters have never driven an EV of any kind. I wouldn't wipe my a@@ with these comments.

Not the response I expected in an M3 forum but you do you

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Not the response I expected in an M3 forum but you do you

If people are going to attack Tesla, there is plenty, and I mean, PLENTY of easy targets to go for. The same tired tropes I see posted everywhere just make me annoyed, because it's so easily overlooked and doesn't force Tesla to improve on what they need to improve on. I mean, I've pretty well established my disdain for them in the thread. I guess I just dislike people who pile on just to seem cool?

No attack against you. You did your due diligence and made your choice, as have I. We both voted in the same direction. But these comments are just boorish and uninformed.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

If people are going to attack Tesla, there is plenty, and I mean, PLENTY of easy targets to go for. The same tired tropes I see posted everywhere just make me annoyed, because it's so easily overlooked and doesn't force Tesla to improve on what they need to improve on. I mean, I've pretty well established my disdain for them in the thread. I guess I just dislike people who pile on just to seem cool?

No attack against you. You did your due diligence and made your choice, as have I. We both voted in the same direction. But these comments are just boorish and uninformed.

Here’s why I think it’s fair game. Tesla pages on FB are pushing this comparison between the M3 and model 3 performance.

I honestly think it’s funny.

In some respects it’s fair to compare. But in others there is - and has to be - respect for the M3 above all the stats.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Here’s why I think it’s fair game. Tesla pages on FB are pushing this comparison between the M3 and model 3 performance.

I honestly think it’s funny.

In some respects it’s fair to compare. But in others there is - and has to be - respect for the M3 above all the stats.

Here's my take on Tesla owners....I actually take pity on them to a certain extent. Hear me out. They are insufferable. As an owner I fought so many battles on TOC and TOO forums. But I think I figured out why.

So you have a bunch of people who have, up until this point in life, been completely NOT into cars. Whatsoever. Like car = appliance. Now, they actually ARE into cars. Sure, much of it is not the same reason we are into cars. They like the tech, mostly. But also, there is some element of fun to driving a Tesla, especially a performance model, and they like it. Now driving is actually enjoyable!

Except...they don't realize they are new to the party and act all cool and macho because their car has a great party trick...acceleration. They don't realize there's much more to it than that, but because car mags have touted acceleration for so long, and their car not only is competitive but wins many battles, they think they are king of the hill. So they do dumb stuff. And yes, they do deserve mockery for it.

So at the end of the day I do agree with you but I do have pity for some of them. At least the ones that can get their head out of their ass.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Here's my take on Tesla owners....I actually take pity on them to a certain extent. Hear me out. They are insufferable. As an owner I fought so many battles on TOC and TOO forums. But I think I figured out why.

So you have a bunch of people who have, up until this point in life, been completely NOT into cars. Whatsoever. Like car = appliance. Now, they actually ARE into cars. Sure, much of it is not the same reason we are into cars. They like the tech, mostly. But also, there is some element of fun to driving a Tesla, especially a performance model, and they like it. Now driving is actually enjoyable!

Except...they don't realize they are new to the party and act all cool and macho because their car has a great party trick...acceleration. They don't realize there's much more to it than that, but because car mags have touted acceleration for so long, and their car not only is competitive but wins many battles, they think they are king of the hill. So they do dumb stuff. And yes, they do deserve mockery for it.

I still appreciate the Tesla, and I think the new Model 3 P is a feat of engineering. But it's not on the same level as the M3, and I think most people realize that... except the Curmudgeon!

So at the end of the day I do agree with you but I do have pity for some of them. At least the ones that can get their head out of their ass.

That's a broad paint brush you're using, but probably mostly correct. You're definitely right about this: affordable supercar power has an intoxicating effect.

We had the F80 comp manual and the Tesla Model 3 Performance at the same time. The F80 had some weaknesses - traction off the line, rubber-band feeling turbos, and a chassis that wasn't dialed in the same way the e90 was or the g80 after it. Going from the M3 to the Tesla felt like going from an airplane with all those buttons and switches and settings to a modern, simplified rocket ship.

Then the G80 came along, and all was right in the M3 world again with the option for x drive and still a manual and a RWD comp alternative. The chassis was better, the fake sound could be dialed off, and especially when the curved display came in LCI the car felt modern and sleek and a true performer. It even outdid the Tesla from a standstill. But at the time, the F80 felt... old. Now that I have hindsight, I know the Tesla was an inferior, poorly made vehicle.

But there is this wave online now against Tesla... and I'm part of it in a sense. I still appreciate the Tesla, and the new model 3 Performance is a feat of engineering.

But the G80 is on another level - and I think most people realize that. When I got my first Tesla model 3 perf, I would say it was an affordable McLaren. Now I know better.

[Diesel power]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Here's my take on Tesla owners....I actually take pity on them to a certain extent. Hear me out. They are insufferable. As an owner I fought so many battles on TOC and TOO forums. But I think I figured out why.

So you have a bunch of people who have, up until this point in life, been completely NOT into cars. Whatsoever. Like car = appliance. Now, they actually ARE into cars. Sure, much of it is not the same reason we are into cars. They like the tech, mostly. But also, there is some element of fun to driving a Tesla, especially a performance model, and they like it. Now driving is actually enjoyable!

Except...they don't realize they are new to the party and act all cool and macho because their car has a great party trick...acceleration. They don't realize there's much more to it than that, but because car mags have touted acceleration for so long, and their car not only is competitive but wins many battles, they think they are king of the hill. So they do dumb stuff. And yes, they do deserve mockery for it.

So at the end of the day I do agree with you but I do have pity for some of them. At least the ones that can get their head out of their ass.

I completely agree and have made similar comments myself. The majority of Tesla buyers (nowhere near all clearly) are coming from Priuses, Civic's etc. Tesla's are better in virtually every way than those cars so people start thinking it's the best car out there.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Diesel power

I completely agree and have made similar comments myself. The majority of Tesla buyers (nowhere near all clearly) are coming from Priuses, Civic's etc. Tesla's are better in virtually every way than those cars so people start thinking it's the best car out there.

Needsdecaf

Here’s some data that supports. Assume other is China brands and the smaller global brands like Nissan and Acura. An old study but a good sample size and a full year of data.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cust...ands-revealed/

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by z335is

I wouldn’t be so sure of that. Current gen already holds its own. New gen is almost entirely focused on track improvements.

i wouldn't be surprised either if the tesla can take out a g80cx on track or at least come extremely close. new 1/4 mile time is set to be close to 11.0 or better (same as the g80). the new motor has much more top end power. the weight is about the same as the g80. much lower center of mass. and instant throttle response.

i don't know many buyers that will sway though. probably not many. its not a good road trip car. its not a good track day car (probably 1 nurburgring lap and its done). its not an enthusiast car. its not a car someone aspires to own since it looks like the 100s of other base model 3's you see every day.

its a good quick daily driver. An appliance.

[Burrcold]

Honest question, do people actually track the Tesla M3P? It's been far too long that I've been to the track, so I'm genuinely curious.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Honest question, do people actually track the Tesla M3P? It's been far too long that I've been to the track, so I'm genuinely curious.

Here’s a thread by some of those who do. Using over half the battery to 2/3 of the battery in 15 minutes- better have a SC handy

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...ou-got.290097/

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I mean, outside of a Tesla club page, where do you expect any support for EV's on social media? Especially tired of the "microwave cooks faster but the grill tastes better" attempt at a comparison. Which is not apt whatsoever. I guarantee most of those commenters have never driven an EV of any kind. I wouldn't wipe my a@@ with these comments.



Yeah, except you forgot the fact that a Model 3 performance is only 60 lbs heavier than an M3 Comp xDrive. And it's 4,050, not 5,000 lbs. So by that measure, we shouldn't track our M3's either.

I never said current M3/M4 is an good cars for tracking. It is as heavy as fuxx. There was an OP saying "the new Model 3 Performance is going to absolutely BURY a ton of performance cars that cost twice as much" and that is a joke.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Honest question, do people actually track the Tesla M3P? It's been far too long that I've been to the track, so I'm genuinely curious.

I went tracking very frequently in the west coast at different locations. Only one location has one type 2 charging station. Good luck with charging up your EV

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i wouldn't be surprised either if the tesla can take out a g80cx on track or at least come extremely close. new 1/4 mile time is set to be close to 11.0 or better (same as the g80). the new motor has much more top end power. the weight is about the same as the g80. much lower center of mass. and instant throttle response.

i don't know many buyers that will sway though. probably not many. its not a good road trip car. its not a good track day car (probably 1 nurburgring lap and its done). its not an enthusiast car. its not a car someone aspires to own since it looks like the 100s of other base model 3's you see every day.

its a good quick daily driver. An appliance.