[DS_BMW]

I have been looking at used prices for 22 MY M3, M4 for used XDrive cars. Every thing on cars.com is listed for over 100k. I'm thinking about trying somthing else out so looking at what stuff is going for.

[vj123]

Yes, its still hot but it might have gone past the peak.

[Limegrntaln]

This is where they give you $85K-$90K for it, and sell it for $100K

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by Limegrntaln

This is where they give you $85K-$90K for it, and sell it for $100K

And they tell you how the market has already corrected blah blah blah…and then turn around and list it for ridiculous money.

True story…a local dealer had a G80 manual, in a great color combo and nicely optioned, on its showroom floor unspoken for. For the last few weeks. They were asking 10k over sticker.

I figured that since it was sitting for weeks, the market had finally turned. Nope. Took longer than I thought it would for a hot market, but sold in the last 24 hrs. For 10k over.

I agree with a poster above that the market may have peaked, and we may be on the plateau or on the way back down. But the market is still unusually hot for sellers.

[MKParris]

It has less to do with a ‘hot market’ and more to do with waiting a year if you order one.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by MKParris

It has less to do with a ‘hot market’ and more to do with waiting a year if you order one.

Huh

[calbears]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

And they tell you how the market has already corrected blah blah blah…and then turn around and list it for ridiculous money.

True story…a local dealer had a G80 manual, in a great color combo and nicely optioned, on its showroom floor unspoken for. For the last few weeks. They were asking 10k over sticker.

I figured that since it was sitting for weeks, the market had finally turned. Nope. Took longer than I thought it would for a hot market, but sold in the last 24 hrs. For 10k over.

I agree with a poster above that the market may have peaked, and we may be on the plateau or on the way back down. But the market is still unusually hot for sellers.

The manuals require a specific customer and even if it's nicely specced it can sit because the manual drivers are very specific about things. This is why we no longer order manuals for store inventory

[mlover789]

G8x is in a different market... The luxury sport car market with c63 and rs5s.. It's not a heavy production car with more demand than supply due to chip shortage. 10k over is crazy but I did make 10k selling my my21... So understandable... And with c63 being a v4 hybrid I think demand went up as well

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by calbears

The manuals require a specific customer and even if it's nicely specced it can sit because the manual drivers are very specific about things. This is why we no longer order manuals for store inventory

That makes sense. The car I mentioned was actually a custom order where the buyer apparently changed his mind as to the G80's fit with his lifestyle, and bought a larger, but I think less performance-focused, vehicle from the same dealer instead. Leaving his ordered G80 available once it landed.

Sounds like you think had it been a comp, it wouldn't have sat nearly as long. I could definitely see that.

Funny how this differs among brands and models. A manual GT3 Touring wouldn't sit around getting dusty on the showroom floor...

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by MKParris

It has less to do with a ‘hot market’ and more to do with waiting a year if you order one.

Isn't that such a big part of why the market is so hot for sellers now?

Pre-pandemic, if the financial savings of buying used wasn't significant, ordering and waiting 8-12 weeks for delivery was a no brainer.

Now, the options appear to be order and wait 8-12 months (and try and pay MSRP, and whatever the best buy rate is at the time). Or buy something now - either new, or used - and hold your nose when you open your wallet.

I think we're basically saying the same thing.

[barryc365]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

That makes sense. The car I mentioned was actually a custom order where the buyer apparently changed his mind as to the G80's fit with his lifestyle, and bought a larger, but I think less performance-focused, vehicle from the same dealer instead. Leaving his ordered G80 available once it landed.

Sounds like you think had it been a comp, it wouldn't have sat nearly as long. I could definitely see that.

Funny how this differs among brands and models. A manual GT3 Touring wouldn't sit around getting dusty on the showroom floor...

There are far less GT3's let alone Tourings produced than M3's

Usually approximately 5000 of each GT3 model and less than a third of them are Tourings so the touring is produced in slightly higher numbers than the incoming CSL for reference

They're always going to get snapped up and if you want to get one at MSRP you need to have a long standing relationship with the dealer and having bought multiple cars from them.

I know a guy who was on the list for a GT3 for 7 years before finally getting the new one

The M3 is a mass produced car in comparison. If you go in and put your name down you'll get an X drive in what ever spec you want in 6 months most likely where as if you walked in to a Porsche dealer and tried to spec a GT3 or a Touring they would laugh you out of the place right now

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by mlover789

G8x is in a different market... The luxury sport car market with c63 and rs5s.. It's not a heavy production car with more demand than supply due to chip shortage. 10k over is crazy but I did make 10k selling my my21... So understandable... And with c63 being a v4 hybrid I think demand went up as well

10K over is not crazy. I think it would be better for everyone’s psyche here if BMW just raised their prices by 10 or 15K on this model. Capitalism is not very difficult to figure out if you look at it. You have five cars for sale. 10 people want them. Eight people want them really really really bad. The price of the cars will go up until there’s only five people who want the five cars and they won’t pay anymore. Very very simple.

Now the good news is for those who are angry about the current supply versus demand issues. As the economy continues to crash there will sooner or later be five cars and only three people that want them. That will mean people will get a discount for them at that stage. So capitalism works in both ways. Everyone should just be patient for about another year and I suspect there will be thousands of these things for sale heavily discounted. Of course gas will be $12 a gallon in certain states for premium but that’s a different conversation.

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by barryc365

There are far less GT3's let alone Tourings produced than M3's

Usually approximately 5000 of each GT3 model and less than a third of them are Tourings so the touring is produced in slightly higher numbers than the incoming CSL for reference

They're always going to get snapped up and if you want to get one at MSRP you need to have a long standing relationship with the dealer and having bought multiple cars from them.

I know a guy who was on the list for a GT3 for 7 years before finally getting the new one

The M3 is a mass produced car in comparison. If you go in and put your name down you'll get an X drive in what ever spec you want in 6 months most likely where as if you walked in to a Porsche dealer and tried to spec a GT3 or a Touring they would laugh you out of the place right now

Yes, apples to oranges comparison in terms of being able to order each car new. I was just making the point that apparently in G8x, manuals can sit around waiting for the right buyer (vs autos which fly off the shelves). But in certain other cars, manuals fly off the shelf.

7 years?! I believe it. They can get you to buy/sell/trade plenty of more ordinary models in that time, and used GT cars (which used to be plentiful and at reasonable - for what they are - prices).

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by Patton250

10K over is not crazy. I think it would be better for everyone’s psyche here if BMW just raised their prices by 10 or 15K on this model. Capitalism is not very difficult to figure out if you look at it. You have five cars for sale. 10 people want them. Eight people want them really really really bad. The price of the cars will go up until there’s only five people who want the five cars and they won’t pay anymore. Very very simple.

Now the good news is for those who are angry about the current supply versus demand issues. As the economy continues to crash there will sooner or later be five cars and only three people that want them. That will mean people will get a discount for them at that stage. So capitalism works in both ways. Everyone should just be patient for about another year and I suspect there will be thousands of these things for sale heavily discounted. Of course gas will be $12 a gallon in certain states for premium but that’s a different conversation.

When you factor in how they bumped up the price of options for ‘23 on top of the bump in base MRSP, the price increase is pretty significant on a well-optioned G8x. Actually curious to see whether that shrinks average mark-ups on these, or whether now both BMW and dealers will simply get more $.

[YamaLink]

I was offered, once again, a profit to sell my weeks-old M4CX. Yesterday after the tint while still at shop. Factoring in tax it wasn't a huge profit unlike the 11K someone offered when my car was in transit. It was the tartufo that his wife always owns, he's never owned xDrive. His/her wait is over a year. I'd be lying if I thought "what could I replace it with", and seeing as how the car was one of two finalists when shopping in December and inventory is worse, it was an easy decision. The guy REALLY wanted xdrive.

[barryc365]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

Yes, apples to oranges comparison in terms of being able to order each car new. I was just making the point that apparently in G8x, manuals can sit around waiting for the right buyer (vs autos which fly off the shelves). But in certain other cars, manuals fly off the shelf.

7 years?! I believe it. They can get you to buy/sell/trade plenty of more ordinary models in that time, and used GT cars (which used to be plentiful and at reasonable - for what they are - prices).

I was on the fence about a manual and my wife suggested auto because she can't drive manual…a year later and she's never driven it :

I think the auto is in more demand for sure

The non comp thing has an effect even though it shouldn't really. If it had a comp badge and same power you'd sell more manuals

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by barryc365

I was on the fence about a manual and my wife suggested auto because she can't drive manual…a year later and she's never driven it :

I think the auto is in more demand for sure

The non comp thing has an effect even though it shouldn't really. If it had a comp badge and same power you'd sell more manuals

but she CAN drive it if she wakes up one day and decides to!

Yes, I think BMW didn’t want to spend any R&D money on a new manual to handle comp numbers. But they knew they’d lose a few thousand sales if they dropped the manual entirely. I think they also assumed manual-or-nothing buyers like me would buy the manual even with immaterially (for the street) lesser numbers. Like you, I think had BMW invested in a beefed up manual and offered the comp with manual, even at a few thousand dollars more, they would have sold a boatload of additional manuals.

But I think the writing was already on the wall years ago, when the X3M and comp went ZF.

[Myangdue]

Originally Posted by barryc365

I was on the fence about a manual and my wife suggested auto because she can't drive manual…a year later and she's never driven it :

I think the auto is in more demand for sure

The non comp thing has an effect even though it shouldn't really. If it had a comp badge and same power you'd sell more manuals

My wife is also suggesting auto but i know for a fact she wont drive it.. but still against manual even though it is much cheaper as well.

[DS_BMW]

I'm thinking of changing direction and trying a 21, 22 alfa QV. Or am I nuts?

[MCM4]

I'm thinking of changing direction and trying a 21, 22 alfa QV. Or am I nuts?

I made a test drive in a brand new 2022 AR Giulia Quadrifoglio and loved it. The car has quite a bit more character than the M3/M4. Styling is subjective on all cars, but for my tastes, the Alfa is more fun to drive. However, I ordered an M4. There are just too many dependability issues for me to take a chance on w/ the Alfa.

[SpeedyATL]

Originally Posted by Patton250

10K over is not crazy. I think it would be better for everyone’s psyche here if BMW just raised their prices by 10 or 15K on this model. Capitalism is not very difficult to figure out if you look at it. You have five cars for sale. 10 people want them. Eight people want them really really really bad. The price of the cars will go up until there’s only five people who want the five cars and they won’t pay anymore. Very very simple.

Now the good news is for those who are angry about the current supply versus demand issues. As the economy continues to crash there will sooner or later be five cars and only three people that want them. That will mean people will get a discount for them at that stage. So capitalism works in both ways. Everyone should just be patient for about another year and I suspect there will be thousands of these things for sale heavily discounted. Of course gas will be $12 a gallon in certain states for premium but that’s a different conversation.

I think you have over estimated how long it will take gas to reach $12/gal....

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by SpeedyATL

I think you have over estimated how long it will take gas to reach $12/gal....

You're probably right. Why waste time? Let's just go ahead and finish off the bottom part of the middle class right here and now while we got the chance. I'm sure that's exactly what some people in charge are saying. The best way to do that is with energy prices. It affects absolutely everything.