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      07-26-2021, 11:23 AM   #1
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Last fully ICE'd m3?

I'm just coming to the realization this is likely the last m3 that's an ICE car. MB is shifting their focus to electric in 2025 and their entire fleet will be electric by 2030. Assuming next m3 comes out around 2027/2028, I can't see how it doesn't get cannibalized by its electric siblings with nearly identical acceleration times. Rivian truck does 3s 0-60. We'll be getting dusted by trucks. Maybe this means a hybrid setup or perhaps fully electric with Europe's harsher restrictions. With that being said, who cares about the grille, we've gotta enjoy this rumble while it lasts. The end is nigh for ICE and exhaust upgrades 🥺
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      07-26-2021, 11:31 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by m3ct View Post
I'm just coming to the realization this is likely the last m3 that's an ICE car. MB is shifting their focus to electric in 2025 and their entire fleet will be electric by 2030. Assuming next m3 comes out around 2027/2028, I can't see how it doesn't get cannibalized by its electric siblings with nearly identical acceleration times. Rivian truck does 3s 0-60. We'll be getting dusted by trucks. Maybe this means a hybrid setup or perhaps fully electric with Europe's harsher restrictions. With that being said, who cares about the grille, we've gotta enjoy this rumble while it lasts. The end is nigh for ICE and exhaust upgrades 🥺
EU regulations have already castrated us by greatly limiting the exhaust noise

I'm depressed by this everytime I accelerate in my g82, future exhaust mods will solve the problem but the cost is being scolded by my service center and likely will void some kind of warranty (whatever they can link to the exhaust lmao I'm sure they'll think of something)

But you're right, let's enjoy this while we can because in 10 years we'll be saying things like "that kids old 428 actually kinda sounds nice" while we zoom away in our boring electric sports cars…at that point I don't know if I'll be reaching into my pocket for 80k+ to dish out on a car that no longer makes me smile
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      07-26-2021, 12:01 PM   #3
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Don't fret yet

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/p...-electric-car/
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      07-26-2021, 12:10 PM   #4
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Electric is the future.
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      07-26-2021, 12:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Electric is the future.
Because it is being forced on us. I have no qualms against electric vehicles. As a transportation only device, it does a fantastic job. However, as a device that brings joy, it will never get anywhere close to ICE cars. It just pisses me off that the world wide auto industry accounts for 30% of pollution, but these massive factories and cruise liners can apparently pollute as much as they want and not get punished. Once again, big money fucks average man in the ass. I wish the progression was more natural instead of some BS cop out these governments are pulling so they can pretend like they are doing something nice while still getting their pockets lined from the big boys. /rant
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      07-26-2021, 12:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by m3ct View Post
I'm just coming to the realization this is likely the last m3 that's an ICE car. MB is shifting their focus to electric in 2025 and their entire fleet will be electric by 2030. Assuming next m3 comes out around 2027/2028, I can't see how it doesn't get cannibalized by its electric siblings with nearly identical acceleration times. Rivian truck does 3s 0-60. We'll be getting dusted by trucks. Maybe this means a hybrid setup or perhaps fully electric with Europe's harsher restrictions. With that being said, who cares about the grille, we've gotta enjoy this rumble while it lasts. The end is nigh for ICE and exhaust upgrades 🥺
I think that's a very safe bet, and the fact that it's being offered with a manual is the cherry on top. I would have never thought it was going to end this soon but that's just reality.
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      07-26-2021, 02:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Wolf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Electric is the future.
Because it is being forced on us. I have no qualms against electric vehicles. As a transportation only device, it does a fantastic job. However, as a device that brings joy, it will never get anywhere close to ICE cars. It just pisses me off that the world wide auto industry accounts for 30% of pollution, but these massive factories and cruise liners can apparently pollute as much as they want and not get punished. Once again, big money fucks average man in the ass. I wish the progression was more natural instead of some BS cop out these governments are pulling so they can pretend like they are doing something nice while still getting their pockets lined from the big boys. /rant
Not to mention the massive environmental problems of disposing of batteries + the abomination of rare earth mineral mining, which everyone is pretending doesn't exist. There are literally not enough materials available to replace every ICE car with electric, but we're sort of just hoping the technology catches up.

It's a bit the same with diesel - you get so many diesel cars in Europe because they were forced on the population with the promise of "clean" diesel and greater fuel efficiency. Fast forward 20 years and there are massive soot problems.

Modern ICE cars in western countries do jack to the environment, but buying a Tesla is a way for rich westerners to pretend they're saving the world
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      07-26-2021, 02:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantagathus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Wolf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Electric is the future.
Because it is being forced on us. I have no qualms against electric vehicles. As a transportation only device, it does a fantastic job. However, as a device that brings joy, it will never get anywhere close to ICE cars. It just pisses me off that the world wide auto industry accounts for 30% of pollution, but these massive factories and cruise liners can apparently pollute as much as they want and not get punished. Once again, big money fucks average man in the ass. I wish the progression was more natural instead of some BS cop out these governments are pulling so they can pretend like they are doing something nice while still getting their pockets lined from the big boys. /rant
Not to mention the massive environmental problems of disposing of batteries + the abomination of rare earth mineral mining, which everyone is pretending doesn't exist. There are literally not enough materials available to replace every ICE car with electric, but we're sort of just hoping the technology catches up.

It's a bit the same with diesel - you get so many diesel cars in Europe because they were forced on the population with the promise of "clean" diesel and greater fuel efficiency. Fast forward 20 years and there are massive soot problems.

Modern ICE cars in western countries do jack to the environment, but buying a Tesla is a way for rich westerners to pretend they're saving the world
Preach! I get so irritated this is being forced on us. Going to the track and enjoying the sounds and shifting through the power band will be a thing of the past. Hold me brother, I'm crying 😢
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      07-26-2021, 02:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantagathus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Wolf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Electric is the future.
Because it is being forced on us. I have no qualms against electric vehicles. As a transportation only device, it does a fantastic job. However, as a device that brings joy, it will never get anywhere close to ICE cars. It just pisses me off that the world wide auto industry accounts for 30% of pollution, but these massive factories and cruise liners can apparently pollute as much as they want and not get punished. Once again, big money fucks average man in the ass. I wish the progression was more natural instead of some BS cop out these governments are pulling so they can pretend like they are doing something nice while still getting their pockets lined from the big boys. /rant
Not to mention the massive environmental problems of disposing of batteries + the abomination of rare earth mineral mining, which everyone is pretending doesn't exist. There are literally not enough materials available to replace every ICE car with electric, but we're sort of just hoping the technology catches up.

It's a bit the same with diesel - you get so many diesel cars in Europe because they were forced on the population with the promise of "clean" diesel and greater fuel efficiency. Fast forward 20 years and there are massive soot problems.

Modern ICE cars in western countries do jack to the environment, but buying a Tesla is a way for rich westerners to pretend they're saving the world
Ohhh the web we weave.

My son just got his undergrad in environmental science and is starting his masters. Normally I don't post personal stuff about family. This actually hits home for me because I'm an avid fisherman/angler.
Some of the stuff I've learned from him and just reading; very interesting and life changing!
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      07-26-2021, 04:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011ninja View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantagathus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Wolf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Electric is the future.
Because it is being forced on us. I have no qualms against electric vehicles. As a transportation only device, it does a fantastic job. However, as a device that brings joy, it will never get anywhere close to ICE cars. It just pisses me off that the world wide auto industry accounts for 30% of pollution, but these massive factories and cruise liners can apparently pollute as much as they want and not get punished. Once again, big money fucks average man in the ass. I wish the progression was more natural instead of some BS cop out these governments are pulling so they can pretend like they are doing something nice while still getting their pockets lined from the big boys. /rant
Not to mention the massive environmental problems of disposing of batteries + the abomination of rare earth mineral mining, which everyone is pretending doesn't exist. There are literally not enough materials available to replace every ICE car with electric, but we're sort of just hoping the technology catches up.

It's a bit the same with diesel - you get so many diesel cars in Europe because they were forced on the population with the promise of "clean" diesel and greater fuel efficiency. Fast forward 20 years and there are massive soot problems.

Modern ICE cars in western countries do jack to the environment, but buying a Tesla is a way for rich westerners to pretend they're saving the world
Ohhh the web we weave.

My son just got his undergrad in environmental science and is starting his masters. Normally I don't post personal stuff about family. This actually hits home for me because I'm an avid fisherman/angler.
Some of the stuff I've learned from him and just reading; very interesting and life changing!
Yeah, cruise liners are really bad for the fish aren't they
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      07-26-2021, 05:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011ninja View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantagathus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Wolf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Electric is the future.
Because it is being forced on us. I have no qualms against electric vehicles. As a transportation only device, it does a fantastic job. However, as a device that brings joy, it will never get anywhere close to ICE cars. It just pisses me off that the world wide auto industry accounts for 30% of pollution, but these massive factories and cruise liners can apparently pollute as much as they want and not get punished. Once again, big money fucks average man in the ass. I wish the progression was more natural instead of some BS cop out these governments are pulling so they can pretend like they are doing something nice while still getting their pockets lined from the big boys. /rant
Not to mention the massive environmental problems of disposing of batteries + the abomination of rare earth mineral mining, which everyone is pretending doesn't exist. There are literally not enough materials available to replace every ICE car with electric, but we're sort of just hoping the technology catches up.

It's a bit the same with diesel - you get so many diesel cars in Europe because they were forced on the population with the promise of "clean" diesel and greater fuel efficiency. Fast forward 20 years and there are massive soot problems.

Modern ICE cars in western countries do jack to the environment, but buying a Tesla is a way for rich westerners to pretend they're saving the world
Ohhh the web we weave.

My son just got his undergrad in environmental science and is starting his masters. Normally I don't post personal stuff about family. This actually hits home for me because I'm an avid fisherman/angler.
Some of the stuff I've learned from him and just reading; very interesting and life changing!
Share some of it if you want. I'm sure a few of us would appreciate it. I know I would anyhow.
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      07-26-2021, 09:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Wolf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011ninja View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantagathus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Wolf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Electric is the future.
Because it is being forced on us. I have no qualms against electric vehicles. As a transportation only device, it does a fantastic job. However, as a device that brings joy, it will never get anywhere close to ICE cars. It just pisses me off that the world wide auto industry accounts for 30% of pollution, but these massive factories and cruise liners can apparently pollute as much as they want and not get punished. Once again, big money fucks average man in the ass. I wish the progression was more natural instead of some BS cop out these governments are pulling so they can pretend like they are doing something nice while still getting their pockets lined from the big boys. /rant
Not to mention the massive environmental problems of disposing of batteries + the abomination of rare earth mineral mining, which everyone is pretending doesn't exist. There are literally not enough materials available to replace every ICE car with electric, but we're sort of just hoping the technology catches up.

It's a bit the same with diesel - you get so many diesel cars in Europe because they were forced on the population with the promise of "clean" diesel and greater fuel efficiency. Fast forward 20 years and there are massive soot problems.

Modern ICE cars in western countries do jack to the environment, but buying a Tesla is a way for rich westerners to pretend they're saving the world
Ohhh the web we weave.

My son just got his undergrad in environmental science and is starting his masters. Normally I don't post personal stuff about family. This actually hits home for me because I'm an avid fisherman/angler.
Some of the stuff I've learned from him and just reading; very interesting and life changing!
Share some of it if you want. I'm sure a few of us would appreciate it. I know I would anyhow.
I'm not going to do this any justice…

Just excerpts from conversations.

My son who insisted he learned how to drive a manual could careless about cars shared this with me. (Although he does like the "automatic" Golf TSI we got him) He has driven my manual M3. He said it's to powerful for the street. 🥸

One of the studies they looked at was the environmental impact of battery powered/electric cars. The pollutants to make the batteries and how to go about the disposing of them was very significant and really offset the perceived isolated comparison of the co generated by "ice" vs EV environmental benefits.

One of the studies internship part of some "Doris Duke thing…" ticks on Deer to better understand the spread of Lyme disease. Also something about Deer killing certain trees used by endangered Bats that keep the eco balance etc. resulting some deer population management.

For it to make sense to me I think about one part on the M3 going bad and how it could effect everything else.

Imagine being 2 psi off while navigating leaving the parking lot doing a rolling burn out. Could cause a lot of other bad things to happen…
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      07-26-2021, 10:31 PM   #13
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Yeah, cruise liners are really bad for the fish aren't they
Doesn't the business model of cruise lines depend on being free of any consequences for their environmental impact, paying living wages, etc.? Without that, they couldn't survive. Also, I remember hearing something about how they contribute nothing to the economies of the places they dock during voyages (e.g., no hotel or restaurant revenues) because they just show up, make a mess, and then leave.
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      07-26-2021, 11:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Der_Wolf View Post
Yeah, cruise liners are really bad for the fish aren't they
Doesn't the business model of cruise lines depend on being free of any consequences for their environmental impact, paying living wages, etc.? Without that, they couldn't survive. Also, I remember hearing something about how they contribute nothing to the economies of the places they dock during voyages (e.g., no hotel or restaurant revenues) because they just show up, make a mess, and then leave.
Spot on. Yet, ol' WoobleWobble can't have a fucking inline 6 anymore because that's the problem. 🤦*♂️
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      07-26-2021, 11:17 PM   #15
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I tend to embrace the M electrification as long as they still keep the ICE part.
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      07-27-2021, 12:55 AM   #16
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That is what made the drastic departure from historical design language more difficult, that this could very well be the last ICE BMW M3. I would have loved to have one more classic design, but this is the farewell tour they chose. Maybe the design will end up being perceived by the masses differently 20 years from now.
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      07-27-2021, 01:12 AM   #17
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as far as I know, the next M5 will be with the S58 + Hybrid module. That's why my brother bought an M8.

The S58 is already EU7 complaint though. So, I think that our "problems" will be moved above 2030. An electrifed S58 is something completely different compared to an electrifed B48 for instance.

I don't like what MB did with the C63, but I don't mind, as I don't like MB at all. So to me, if BMW will keep the iconical inline 6 even with some electrification, it'll be good to me.

If you look at what Ferrari is doing with the new V6 engine, to me these are only good news. I've never appreciated the latest Ferrari turbo v8 engines sound, and as the new v6 really sounds like a V12 (i can enesure you what i'm saying), that's why I've ordered one.

I know that for many petrolheads of us, this decade is the last one to own and put in our garages something that embrace our childhood dreams. I'm lucky enough to have my brother with the same "big engine" passion, so we'll build up step by step a 5/6 pieces garage in the next years to allow us to drive our drem cars even with an electrified car or maybe a full electric car parked on the driveway to go to work in the morning.

So, my advice is, look at something that will you keep back to your dreams every time you'll enter into the garage, buy it and hold it when it won't be possibile to buy ICE cars anymore in the near future.

Then embrace the progress, we cannot do nothing to stop it. But don't think at the future, it doesn't matter....enjoy what you can expercience NOW. Reading something such as "i'm waiting for the my 23 M3 model to wait for the new dash" is something that I consider really stupid for example, as all of us will have a lot of time to use all touch dashboards in the future.
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      07-27-2021, 04:56 AM   #18
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ICE cars solved the pollution crisis of NYC where horse crap was piled feet high on the sides of the road. I'm sure people lamented they couldn't ride their horsies around as well. EVs will take over ICE and as drivers we'll work out ways to enjoy them. The newer models seems to be cracking smiles - I'm sure we'll all manage fine.
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      07-27-2021, 05:55 AM   #19
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ICE cars solved the pollution crisis of NYC where horse crap was piled feet high on the sides of the road. I'm sure people lamented they couldn't ride their horsies around as well. EVs will take over ICE and as drivers we'll work out ways to enjoy them. The newer models seems to be cracking smiles - I'm sure we'll all manage fine.
So by this example you believe Electric cars will solve NYC pollution caused by ICE cars? Have you been to NYC recently, and by that I mean pre-covid19 pandemic? The biggest polluters are Tour Buses, Trucks (transportation/building aka Cement trucks/Delivery trucks (UPS/FedEX, industry within NYC). Let's not even talk about the Ferries that transport commuters on the waterways or the massive container ships and Cruise boats.

The NYS DEC/DEP are a total joke, same goes for the EPA in general. The people in power are hypocrites and are totally clueless.
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      07-27-2021, 08:25 AM   #20
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Looking at global data, passenger cars contribute 10-15% of CO2 emissions. Not insignificant, and change isn’t a bad thing, but I do wonder how much of this is spin to put the burden on the consumer while industry can continue business as usual. Kind of like what the plastic (petrochemical) industry does with recycling.
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      07-27-2021, 08:36 AM   #21
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as far as I know, the next M5 will be with the S58 + Hybrid module. That's why my brother bought an M8.

The S58 is already EU7 complaint though. So, I think that our "problems" will be moved above 2030. An electrifed S58 is something completely different compared to an electrifed B48 for instance.

I don't like what MB did with the C63, but I don't mind, as I don't like MB at all. So to me, if BMW will keep the iconical inline 6 even with some electrification, it'll be good to me.

If you look at what Ferrari is doing with the new V6 engine, to me these are only good news. I've never appreciated the latest Ferrari turbo v8 engines sound, and as the new v6 really sounds like a V12 (i can enesure you what i'm saying), that's why I've ordered one.

I know that for many petrolheads of us, this decade is the last one to own and put in our garages something that embrace our childhood dreams. I'm lucky enough to have my brother with the same "big engine" passion, so we'll build up step by step a 5/6 pieces garage in the next years to allow us to drive our drem cars even with an electrified car or maybe a full electric car parked on the driveway to go to work in the morning.

So, my advice is, look at something that will you keep back to your dreams every time you'll enter into the garage, buy it and hold it when it won't be possibile to buy ICE cars anymore in the near future.

Then embrace the progress, we cannot do nothing to stop it. But don't think at the future, it doesn't matter....enjoy what you can expercience NOW. Reading something such as "i'm waiting for the my 23 M3 model to wait for the new dash" is something that I consider really stupid for example, as all of us will have a lot of time to use all touch dashboards in the future.
Have you heard the 296 in person? I find ferraris claim of it sounding like the v12s little brother a bit unlikely. It's a cool car though. For me, I'd prefer a F8 Tributo with a Novitec exhaust (Or a Pista if I could get an allocation lol). I just prefer the looks of the F8 more than the 296.
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      07-27-2021, 04:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideontwo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
ICE cars solved the pollution crisis of NYC where horse crap was piled feet high on the sides of the road. I'm sure people lamented they couldn't ride their horsies around as well. EVs will take over ICE and as drivers we'll work out ways to enjoy them. The newer models seems to be cracking smiles - I'm sure we'll all manage fine.
So by this example you believe Electric cars will solve NYC pollution caused by ICE cars? Have you been to NYC recently, and by that I mean pre-covid19 pandemic? The biggest polluters are Tour Buses, Trucks (transportation/building aka Cement trucks/Delivery trucks (UPS/FedEX, industry within NYC). Let's not even talk about the Ferries that transport commuters on the waterways or the massive container ships and Cruise boats.

The NYS DEC/DEP are a total joke, same goes for the EPA in general. The people in power are hypocrites and are totally clueless.
I'm just having fun here so not intended to be making a technical point about one generation solving the previous generation's pollution issues. I do note though that EVs aren't just cars. They encompass trucks, buses, ferries, trains and planes - all of which are in various stages of transition to full electrification as battery tech and grid distribution levels up.

And that all said… I couldn't resist sharing these photos of the Great NYC Horse Crap Crisis of 1894.
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