[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by V-Eight

as far as I know, the next M5 will be with the S58 + Hybrid module.

Source?

[Tyga11]

They will come out with technology that produces a fake exhaust note.

[V-Eight]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Source?

a BMW Munchen insider, which is a friend of mine.

Pay attention that here in EU is under evaluation a new law that all ICE and Hybrid cars cannot be sold starting from 2035. Some countries, like Denmark or Sweden for example, want to anticipate this matter to 2030, and other 9 countries are thinking to make the same. This means that starting from 2035 we (European) will not also be able to drive them, since with they will no longer be able to circulate on the road after five years from the approval of the law.

In addition, MB has declared that in 2025, for example, will reduce of 50% the ICE choice from its current model range, and another - 30% of ICE engines will be reduced by 2030. Stellantis, declared that starting 2025 Alfa Romeo, Lancia, DS and other brands will be Electric only.

I don't want to scare you, but following what is happening due to climate changes and the market demand, for us petrolheads "mala tempore currunt" as the ancient romans says in Latin language.

So, as far as I know, the S58 is already EU7 emission standards complaiant, and it will be used instead the V8 for certain markets. I don't know what will happen in the U.S. but remember one thing, is not economically substainable for a company to develop two differents engines for a "special" car like an M5. The focus will be to improve with an electric motor the S58 in different power versions also for the M5, the M8 will not be replaced and will die with the current model in 2024.

The V8 is off course a great displacement, but......if you see at what other sportscar makers are doing (Ferrari, Maserati, McLaren, Porsche, etc) are discontinuing their bigger engines for an Hybrid V6 in some case (296, Artura), are using a v6 waiting for the Bev only versions (Maserati), or are developing an Hybrid one, (Porsche flat 6 hybrid recently spotted on the Nurburgring), or others are making an even great leap towards electrification....the ne 4 pot hybrid C63 AMG.

The main point is that if a lot of countries or states (California for example?) will forbid to sell ICE powered cars in the near future, to some auto makers will not worth the money to produce them.

So the first deadline is 2025, there everything will be clear for all of us... but be sure, that a lot of changes are happening, changes that we will all have to accept unfortunately.

As far as the V8, Lamborghini decided to use the V8 (hybridized) for the next Huracan in order to save the V12 for its last "hurra" for the new Aventador, such as Ferrari for example, the V8 is being discountined if you see for the all new V6, and I know what I'm writing as a Ferrari owner. The V8 for Ferrari will be used for the SF90 in the future, the F8 spider will be last one. The new Hypercar will have the V12 fortunately, The Roma M will have the V6 in different powers, the Portofino replacement...(if there will be one....) will be V6 only. The New Purosangue SUV will be V6 or V12.

The V8 is being discouned transversally by some manufacturers due to the small selling volume they have all around the world. If you think....and you see the global sales, the most sold Porsche in Cina is the poor 2 liter 4pot Macan for instance!

As I'm telling you since months, please if you can, do not wait for the new upgraded version of the Idrive system or stupid things like these......run to buy the car of your dreams asap, because its not certain if you will find it as you know it today in the very near future.

But not all is a bad news. In the other hand, a 6 cylinder hybrid will offer a lot of power compared to what you can find today (ferrari is just an example...) but it's not all about the performance. The driving experience will change faster than you're thinking, that's why I'm writing you all these words. But a certain point is that BMW will save its iconical inline six as much as it can, even hybrid off course.

I know a lot of people that works in the most famous car brands, Ferrari, Pagani, Maserati, BMW, VAG group...and they all tell me what I'm now telling you.

It depends on what you're looking for, but as far as the M5 replacement, I'll be able to give you precise info within months, when the new one will be put under development. But be secure, that the V8 is likely to be deleted, unless a miracle happens in Munchen.

[Jimjamz]

I think a more pressing reason for M's going EV will be the fear of falling behind in the hp and 0-60 wars. You just have to see what Rimac did to all comers to see why electric hypercars have become the cutting edge.

[V-Eight]

My 2 cents.....in the future, it won't be all about a 0-60 time. Words like "driving pleasure", "engagement", "exhotic", "emotion" etc will be the key reason to buy a car. Every car will be able to do amazing 0-60 launch time...but then? If the car will drive themselves to me buying a Skoda instead of buying a BMW will not matter.

What matter is the experience you get from driving and owning a brand rather than another one.

But I know that this is only my personal point of view. I often drive my beloved and ancient e39 diesel....and it is a "gate" as we say here in Italy (something really slow, medieval and unsporty to drive) but it gaves me such a sweet sensation of driving something that made history, with its pros and cons. I'm not against electrification, but my fear is to have an even more uniformity of performance and offer; which is something we can see today already. I drive a BMW for a specific techincal reason, let's see if in the future we will have differentiation.....but I don't think so. The only difference will be the design as the performance will be even more homogeneous.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by V-Eight

a BMW Munchen insider, which is a friend of mine.

Pay attention that here in EU is under evaluation a new law that all ICE and Hybrid cars cannot be sold starting from 2035. Some countries, like Denmark or Sweden for example, want to anticipate this matter to 2030, and other 9 countries are thinking to make the same. This means that starting from 2035 we (European) will not also be able to drive them, since with they will no longer be able to circulate on the road after five years from the approval of the law.

In addition, MB has declared that in 2025, for example, will reduce of 50% the ICE choice from its current model range, and another - 30% of ICE engines will be reduced by 2030. Stellantis, declared that starting 2025 Alfa Romeo, Lancia, DS and other brands will be Electric only.

I don't want to scare you, but following what is happening due to climate changes and the market demand, for us petrolheads "mala tempore currunt" as the ancient romans says in Latin language.

So, as far as I know, the S58 is already EU7 emission standards complaiant, and it will be used instead the V8 for certain markets. I don't know what will happen in the U.S. but remember one thing, is not economically substainable for a company to develop two differents engines for a "special" car like an M5. The focus will be to improve with an electric motor the S58 in different power versions also for the M5, the M8 will not be replaced and will die with the current model in 2024.

The V8 is off course a great displacement, but......if you see at what other sportscar makers are doing (Ferrari, Maserati, McLaren, Porsche, etc) are discontinuing their bigger engines for an Hybrid V6 in some case (296, Artura), are using a v6 waiting for the Bev only versions (Maserati), or are developing an Hybrid one, (Porsche flat 6 hybrid recently spotted on the Nurburgring), or others are making an even great leap towards electrification....the ne 4 pot hybrid C63 AMG.

The main point is that if a lot of countries or states (California for example?) will forbid to sell ICE powered cars in the near future, to some auto makers will not worth the money to produce them.

So the first deadline is 2025, there everything will be clear for all of us... but be sure, that a lot of changes are happening, changes that we will all have to accept unfortunately.

As far as the V8, Lamborghini decided to use the V8 (hybridized) for the next Huracan in order to save the V12 for its last "hurra" for the new Aventador, such as Ferrari for example, the V8 is being discountined if you see for the all new V6, and I know what I'm writing as a Ferrari owner. The V8 for Ferrari will be used for the SF90 in the future, the F8 spider will be last one. The new Hypercar will have the V12 fortunately, The Roma M will have the V6 in different powers, the Portofino replacement...(if there will be one....) will be V6 only. The New Purosangue SUV will be V6 or V12.

The V8 is being discouned transversally by some manufacturers due to the small selling volume they have all around the world. If you think....and you see the global sales, the most sold Porsche in Cina is the poor 2 liter 4pot Macan for instance!

As I'm telling you since months, please if you can, do not wait for the new upgraded version of the Idrive system or stupid things like these......run to buy the car of your dreams asap, because its not certain if you will find it as you know it today in the very near future.

But not all is a bad news. In the other hand, a 6 cylinder hybrid will offer a lot of power compared to what you can find today (ferrari is just an example...) but it's not all about the performance. The driving experience will change faster than you're thinking, that's why I'm writing you all these words. But a certain point is that BMW will save its iconical inline six as much as it can, even hybrid off course.

I know a lot of people that works in the most famous car brands, Ferrari, Pagani, Maserati, BMW, VAG group...and they all tell me what I'm now telling you.

It depends on what you're looking for, but as far as the M5 replacement, I'll be able to give you precise info within months, when the new one will be put under development. But be secure, that the V8 is likely to be deleted, unless a miracle happens in Munchen.

Thanks for the insights. I relate to your passion.

One thing - my impression is for the V8 is to stay and be electrified for the next gen. But there is no clear indication where they want to go with the L6.

I'd be not surprised if the BMW follow MB's approach for the ICE, which is hybrid V8 + hybrid L4 + pure ICE L4 covers full range.

[NightWriter]

I'd much rather see an I6--even if the turbos shrink--to complement an electric battery/motor system, rather than a four-banger. Would be much more, ahem, in-line with BMW heritage.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Nah, there's one more generation of ICE (although it'll be a hybrid).

The current powerplant we have in the M3/4 will be the next installment in the next gen M5. It'll be a hybrid twin turbo I6 with electric motors powering the front wheels. I suspect the generation after that is full EV.

As far as the M3/4 itself, we might get a turbo hybrid 4cyl with electric motors powering the front wheels in the next gen. Then the following gen, full EV.

This is going to happen whether we like it or not. This is going to happen no matter how desperately we look for links giving us hope. Because all we'll be searching for, is false hope. Porsche's idea won't save us. Nothing will. In 10 years time we're going to be seeing a significant amount of electric cars on the road. Not only tesla, but all of the familiar brands you know of today, will be electric on the road.

It's a sad future if you think about it now. However once the years go by, i think there will be new up and coming laws stating WE CAN keep our ICE cars, however we will be heavily taxed on it.

It'll be like a lease.

You want to keep your ICE car? Great. You're limited to only 5000 miles a year and you're going to pay a big yearly tax in doing so.

Once they implement this. Us ICE lovers will probably abide by this but shortly after we'll give up and give in.

EV is the future.

[Jimjamz]

I've said this in another Bimmerpost forum and enjoyed some blowback. That said I remembered being advised that M's won't go turbo …

The biggest constraining factor on ICE cars won't be govt taxes and mileage penalties. Can you imagine any govt in the US surving that election

It will be plummeting demand for high octane gas leading to supply-side withdrawal. When every new premium car out there is EV, what gas station is going to tap into a minuscule market for high end gas?

Enjoy our ICE-y Ms while we can peeps. Don't garage queen them only to wake up in a future with no premium fuel at the corner stop up the road.

[BGM-M3COMP]

^^Agreed.

As someone who has driven tesla's, it's actually not that bad. Yes there's no sound so i do understand why people think it's "soulless". But can you imagine 10 years from now, normal EV cars like a jeep grand cherokee or a dodge charger (which is already happening) out accelerating your ICE car? I know that doesn't mean much to some but from a marketing standpoint, it makes no sense to make cars that will appease only "some" buyers.

Remember there are A LOT of car buyers out there that think and use these cars as appliances. They buy them, use them, discard them. With no emotional attachment in between.

So while some people may buy a dodge charger, or an M550I or whatever car that is performance oriented, i say more often than not those exact buyers do not have a care in the world on what's powering it, as long as the performance comes advertised. If the car is supposed to do 0-60 in 3 seconds and run the 1/4 in 11 flat, that's what that owner wants to see. Doesn't matter if there's a V8, twin turbo I6, hybrid 4 or all EV. That owner wants those performance figures the manufacturer claims it will do.

Us diehard gearheads that love engines and sounds, probably make up not even 5% of total car buyers.