[hellcat2m4]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Update: I drove the model S and sat in the new model 3 LR. Didn’t like either of them. The performance seats must be better. Rethinking this. The S seats are just ok. The removal of stalks is a problem.

Drove the iXM60 and the i4M50. Both are outstanding. Not sure how fast they are but probably fast enough. Can feel the weight difference, although that contributes to the feeling of luxury. The i4 seems a bit smaller inside than the model 3.

Bought the iXM60 and canceled the model 3 perf order.

My man

[Needsdecaf]

And there you have it....

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68935522

This. THIS. ALL OF THIS. THIS is why I sold my tesla and exited, as I say, the "Elonverse". For no matter what good redeeming qualities I find in their product (and I do find many, don't get me wrong) I no longer wish to be tied to a company with THIS much just "FAFO" leadership. I mean, who on earth does this?

His lemmings will say "he's a genius, look what he's done for the automotive world". I repeat a quote that a guy I used to work with would always say: "ya gotta take the bitter with the sweet". Yeah, well a long time ago, owning a Tesla became a lot more bitter and a lot less sweet. I can point to a moment in time where the Y launched and really took off.

To say nothing of his insane Twitter rants, questionable business practices, etc. That's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

So yeah, sorry Tesla. Cannot buy. Even at $85k or whatever a Plaid S costs these days...cannot support a company where one day the CEO will go on a massive drug fueled bender and decide to cut support for the product you own. Not going to have to deal with those ramifications on a $100k purchase. Already seen this show, know how it ends (Model S/X MCU).

[Buckeyes]

Elon is not a druggie. He took a hit of weed on the JRE years ago and many think he’s a chronic user. He is not.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Buckeyes

Elon is not a druggie. He took a hit of weed on the JRE years ago and many think he’s a chronic user. He is not.

Just smoked weed on JRE? lol

https://www.wsj.com/business/elon-mu..._copyURL_share

[Diesel power]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

And there you have it....

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68935522

This. THIS. ALL OF THIS. THIS is why I sold my tesla and exited, as I say, the "Elonverse". For no matter what good redeeming qualities I find in their product (and I do find many, don't get me wrong) I no longer wish to be tied to a company with THIS much just "FAFO" leadership. I mean, who on earth does this?

His lemmings will say "he's a genius, look what he's done for the automotive world". I repeat a quote that a guy I used to work with would always say: "ya gotta take the bitter with the sweet". Yeah, well a long time ago, owning a Tesla became a lot more bitter and a lot less sweet. I can point to a moment in time where the Y launched and really took off.

To say nothing of his insane Twitter rants, questionable business practices, etc. That's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

So yeah, sorry Tesla. Cannot buy. Even at $85k or whatever a Plaid S costs these days...cannot support a company where one day the CEO will go on a massive drug fueled bender and decide to cut support for the product you own. Not going to have to deal with those ramifications on a $100k purchase. Already seen this show, know how it ends (Model S/X MCU).

100% agree, what's even stranger is Tesla just got the entire auto industry to synchronize with the Tesla charging plug so that they will essentially own the charging business and now he's shutting it down? For what, so he can focus on Robotaxi vaporware? Last weeks call where he tried to gaslight everyone that Tesla was actually an AI company and should be valued as such was a blatant attempt to try to keep the share price up (which worked too well unfortunately). Unfortunately for him, if it's an AI company it's not a very good one as despite his continuing promises that FSD is coming it's actually fallen behind some of their automotive industry peers.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Just smoked weed on JRE? lol

https://www.wsj.com/business/elon-mu..._copyURL_share

I just had this complete paradigm shift about Tesla in the last 24 hours.

The laying off of the entire SC team bothered me quite a bit, seeing as how they did a phenomenal job.

Then I visited their latest service center in my area - drove the model S checked out the new model 3 and perused the model X again. The changes they made to the steering wheel, removing the stalks - what a boneheaded idea, on par with the yoke steering wheel rollout. Not only that, but the lack of engagement from the personnel there, the lackluster model S experience - terrible seats, feels like a Toyota Camry honestly - made things even worse.

I've had the iX for all of 12 hours, but after owning 2 teslas (model 3 perf gen 1, model Y LR) for a combined 3 years and 30k miles, there really is a phenomenal difference between the BMW and the Tesla. I had driven the Audi e-tron (SUV) and was underwhelmed. But I drove the i4M50 and the iXM60 and they are both exceptional vehicles.

I'm sure the range and performance isn't quite matched to Tesla. Although it looks like I drove 60 miles since charge and have 220 miles remaining so that would be as much or more than my model Y LR.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Diesel power

100% agree, what's even stranger is Tesla just got the entire auto industry to synchronize with the Tesla charging plug so that they will essentially own the charging business and now he's shutting it down? For what, so he can focus on Robotaxi vaporware? Last weeks call where he tried to gaslight everyone that Tesla was actually an AI company and should be valued as such was a blatant attempt to try to keep the share price up (which worked too well unfortunately). Unfortunately for him, if it's an AI company it's not a very good one as despite his continuing promises that FSD is coming it's actually fallen behind some of their automotive industry peers.

Agreed. I don't think they are 'shutting it down' but they have said they want to slow growth. Excuse me? This is the biggest missing link in the whole EV sector and you are the leader and you're shutting it down? Uh, ok. Guess that's why you're worth eleventy billion dollars but I want no part of that crazy decision making tree.

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

I just had this complete paradigm shift about Tesla in the last 24 hours.

The laying off of the entire SC team bothered me quite a bit, seeing as how they did a phenomenal job.

Then I visited their latest service center in my area - drove the model S checked out the new model 3 and perused the model X again. The changes they made to the steering wheel, removing the stalks - what a boneheaded idea, on par with the yoke steering wheel rollout. Not only that, but the lack of engagement from the personnel there, the lackluster model S experience - terrible seats, feels like a Toyota Camry honestly - made things even worse.

I've had the iX for all of 12 hours, but after owning 2 teslas (model 3 perf gen 1, model Y LR) for a combined 3 years and 30k miles, there really is a phenomenal difference between the BMW and the Tesla. I had driven the Audi e-tron (SUV) and was underwhelmed. But I drove the i4M50 and the iXM60 and they are both exceptional vehicles.

I'm sure the range and performance isn't quite matched to Tesla. Although it looks like I drove 60 miles since charge and have 220 miles remaining so that would be as much or more than my model Y LR.

Yeah, I can't get over the no stalks thing.

Agreed with you. There is no more cool factor, no more enthusiasm on part of the company employees. When I bought my first model 3, everyone I interacted with in person (online and on the phone was a WHOLE different matter) was super cool. Like you were becoming part of a club. People wanted to welcome you to the family and help. People still got out of the car at superchargers and talked with one another.

By the time I traded my second Model 3....none of that was there. From Christmas 2020 until December 2022, I recieved fewer OTA features than I did in probably the 6 months preceeding that. Never mind the 18 months before THAT! Customer service at the service center was at fast food joint levels. We had gone from Tesla loaners to crappy Tesla loaners to uber credits. Mobile service was impossible to get. People internally conflicted with each other with what they told me.

Moreover, things were clearly designed without user input in mind. Software updates started making things worse rather than better. Features were being removed. My car had radar for cruise and it was turned off via an OTA update. The UI on the screen sucked after the Christmas 2020 update and they kept making it worse (tiny power / regen bar anyone)? Everything was geared to try to make FSD work but it continues to suck. Meanwhile my wipers wouldn't work on auto hardly at all.

So yeah, this is just another reminder that no matter how cool the shiny new object is, I prefer not to be a part of a startup automaker headed by a lunatic. I do root for them and think that they have literally changed the entire industry (or at least forced an inevitable change decades sooner both in terms of EV adoption and software driven vehicles) but I'm too tired to ride this roller coaster.

Congrats on your iX!

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Yeah, I can't get over the no stalks thing.

Agreed with you. There is no more cool factor, no more enthusiasm on part of the company employees. When I bought my first model 3, everyone I interacted with in person (online and on the phone was a WHOLE different matter) was super cool. Like you were becoming part of a club. People wanted to welcome you to the family and help. People still got out of the car at superchargers and talked with one another.

By the time I traded my second Model 3....none of that was there. From Christmas 2020 until December 2022, I recieved fewer OTA features than I did in probably the 6 months preceeding that. Never mind the 18 months before THAT! Customer service at the service center was at fast food joint levels. We had gone from Tesla loaners to crappy Tesla loaners to uber credits. Mobile service was impossible to get. People internally conflicted with each other with what they told me.

Moreover, things were clearly designed without user input in mind. Software updates started making things worse rather than better. Features were being removed. My car had radar for cruise and it was turned off via an OTA update. The UI on the screen sucked after the Christmas 2020 update and they kept making it worse (tiny power / regen bar anyone)? Everything was geared to try to make FSD work but it continues to suck. Meanwhile my wipers wouldn't work on auto hardly at all.

So yeah, this is just another reminder that no matter how cool the shiny new object is, I prefer not to be a part of a startup [...]

Thank you. You could be a journalist! I think the price drops took the wind out of Tesla’s sails, killing morale and their financials. The big picture idea that Tesla was driving innovation and fostering the adoption of BEV holistically was shot in the foot by killing off competitor’s investments. Almost like Elon woke up one day and decided this is the Art of War and went his egotist route instead. This is part and parcel of all the other issues within Tesla. There are some bright spots within the engineering team, as seen in the new model 3 performance, but the manic FSD focus and desperation pricing makes it seem like Tesla is doomed to mediocrity without winning the robotaxi strategy. The Achilles heel is that FSD doesn’t work. Phantom braking alone makes it a non-starter for me. I couldn’t agree more with your observations, experience, and assessments.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Thank you. You could be a journalist! I think the price drops took the wind out of Tesla’s sails, killing morale and their financials. The big picture idea that Tesla was driving innovation and fostering the adoption of BEV holistically was shot in the foot by killing off competitor’s investments. Almost like Elon woke up one day and decided this is the Art of War and went his egotist route instead. This is part and parcel of all the other issues within Tesla. There are some bright spots within the engineering team, as seen in the new model 3 performance, but the manic FSD focus and desperation pricing makes it seem like Tesla is doomed to mediocrity without winning the robotaxi strategy. The Achilles heel is that FSD doesn’t work. Phantom braking alone makes it a non-starter for me. I couldn’t agree more with your observations, experience, and assessments.

Oh geez I forgot about phantom braking, lol. Yeah, I had that a BUNCH. there was one toll plaza on BW 8 on the West side of Houston where if I had TACC activated, it would slam on the brakes going through the toll plaza. Thank you for reminding me of that garbage.

Thanks for the compliment on being a reporter, lol. I went into owning a Tesla in 2018 with eyes wide open. Friend of mine lives in Silly-Con valley (as he calls it) and while not a Tesla employee, knows many that came to his company. There is MUCH to admire to the way Telsa has approached things. Software, wholistic approach to fighting losses, vertical integration on parts, etc. He's got some inside stories and as a decently high up guy at a very well known company there, he's got the basis to understand the good and the bad. He also has owned Teslas since a Model S in 2012, and has also owned a Bolt, a Volt and a Taycan.

He warned me up front about dealing with "Elon's company" so I went in eyes wide open. And I got about what I expected. My car(s) got better. Initial support was great. But then, as I noted above, things got worse.

Yeah phantom braking sucked. My first car had EAP which included auto lane change, summon, advanced summon, etc. and when that car got totaled and I replaced it, the new one came with basic autopilot included or FSD. Given FSD is a complete scam I passed and then they offered EAP for like $4k. So...$4k and really the only benefit was that you didn't have to constantly re-engate lane keeping after every change. Because EAP changed lanes like an idiot.

My G80 is very smooth by comparison.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

My G80 is very smooth by comparison.

Same - I have one too and said the same thing. Isn’t that wild? An M3 is more comfortable than a model Y. It’s the sophistication of the springs and rebound and dampers. Yet it drives on rails.

[Buckeyes]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Just smoked weed on JRE? lol

https://www.wsj.com/business/elon-mu..._copyURL_share

Hit piece. You can’t be that gullible

[Diesel power]

What is your basis for him not doing drugs? It's pretty out there to call someone gullible when they're citing a well sourced article

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Buckeyes

Hit piece. You can’t be that gullible

You can't be that naïve.

Originally Posted by Diesel power

What is your basis for him not doing drugs? It's pretty out there to call someone gullible when they're citing a well sourced article

Exactly. You can't just dismiss an article by a major newspaper, citing multiple sources, by claiming it's a hit piece. The burden of proof is on you to refute, not me. Because we know Elon isn't afraid to drop the lawsuit hammer...why hasn't he sued the WSJ for Libel or Defamation yet?

Besides, as I noted above, I have a good friend in the Valley who is big into EV's and works with and knows multiple Tesla and former Tesla employees. And based on those relationships, I wouldn't be worried if I was the WSJ....

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Buckeyes

Hit piece. You can’t be that gullible

“People close to Musk” - they have sources.

I recall a number of business leaders telling Musk to pump the brakes when he was in “production hell” on the ramp up of the model 3, and I remember Elon vocalizing his sleep problems and use of Ambien, which some the board members of Tesla were concerned about - the lack of taking care of himself, not necessarily the legal, prescribed Ambien.

The illegal drugs do pose a problem and have run Elon into trouble with the US government for his contracts with SpaceX.

The mudslinging seems politically motivated to an extent. However, we don’t need to judge Elon by his drug use but by the actions of Tesla - the increasingly impulsive, ridiculous product decisions and staffing cuts, etc.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

“People close to Musk” - they have sources.

I recall a number of business leaders telling Musk to pump the brakes when he was in “production hell” on the ramp up of the model 3, and I remember Elon vocalizing his sleep problems and use of Ambien, which some the board members of Tesla were concerned about - the lack of taking care of himself, not necessarily the legal, prescribed Ambien.

The illegal drugs do pose a problem and have run Elon into trouble with the US government for his contracts with SpaceX.

The mudslinging seems politically motivated to an extent. However, we don’t need to judge Elon by his drug use but by the actions of Tesla - the increasingly impulsive, ridiculous product decisions and staffing cuts, etc.

Exactly. Whether he uses drugs or not, he exhibits the self control of a poorly-behaved toddler and the company swings massively as a result. So whether that's the reason, he's crazy, or is the biggest genius in history I really DGAF. Don't want to have anything to do with a company that operates in that manner. BTDT, got the t-shirt.

[BMWsully]

Lots of copium in here lol. Whether you like Tesla or not, the new Model 3 Performance is going to absolutely BURY a ton of performance cars that cost twice as much.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Exactly. Whether he uses drugs or not, he exhibits the self control of a poorly-behaved toddler and the company swings massively as a result. So whether that's the reason, he's crazy, or is the biggest genius in history I really DGAF. Don't want to have anything to do with a company that operates in that manner. BTDT, got the t-shirt.

Some (most?) of his posts on twitter, er, X, are unbelievably childish. It’s like X is his self-fulfillment of ego, maybe bigger than his ill-devised colonization of Mars or filling our troposphere with space junk in the name of internet for everyone

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by BMWsully

Lots of copium in here lol. Like Tesla or not, the new Model 3 Performance is going to absolutely BURY a ton of performance cars that cost twice as much.

True, but with no turn signal stalks things are gonna get dicey out there

I enjoy going slower in my manual M3 than beating a McLaren off the line at a stoplight. But that’s just me.

I was really intrigued by the new suspension and seats, and for those who buy this car - more power to you. Or actually that’s probably enough power, but I’m happy for you. Really. I ordered one myself and backed out.

[hellcat2m4]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

True, but with no turn signal stalks things are gonna get dicey out there

I enjoy going slower in my manual M3 than beating a McLaren off the line at a stoplight. But that’s just me.

I was really intrigued by the new suspension and seats, and for those who buy this car - more power to you. Or actually that’s probably enough power, but I’m happy for you. Really. I ordered one myself and backed out.

You can do both if you tune that G80 😉

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by BMWsully

Lots of copium in here lol. Whether you like Tesla or not, the new Model 3 Performance is going to absolutely BURY a ton of performance cars that cost twice as much.

Only 0 to 60

[z335is]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

Only 0 to 60

I wouldn’t be so sure of that. Current gen already holds its own. New gen is almost entirely focused on track improvements.