[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by OGM1

Come on. You can't even form sentences using the correct words. How am I supposed to explain climate change to someone that has the intelligence of an earthworm?

hmmm ok. Tell me how you're going to test your hypothesis of climate change over millions of years without being able to actually observe and test.

hypothesis:

2
: a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences

The Difference Between Hypothesis and Theory

A hypothesis is an assumption, an idea that is proposed for the sake of argument so that it can be tested to see if it might be true.

In the scientific method, the hypothesis is constructed before any applicable research has been done, apart from a basic background review. You ask a question, read up on what has been studied before, and then form a hypothesis.

A hypothesis is usually tentative; it's an assumption or suggestion made strictly for the objective of being tested.

A theory, in contrast, is a principle that has been formed as an attempt to explain things that have already been substantiated by data. It is used in the names of a number of principles accepted in the scientific community, such as the Big Bang Theory. Because of the rigors of experimentation and control, it is understood to be more likely to be true than a hypothesis is.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypothesis

[OC-M3CX]

AmuroRay

Suck my left nut you bird brained bozo

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by ghaffari46

The International Energy Agency expects over 14 million EVs to be sold globally in 2023, which would account for about 18 percent of total car sales. The figure would represent a 35 percent increase year over year, accounting for as much as 18 percent of total car sales in 2023, so unlike popular belief many people globally embrace EVs.
The breakpoint is 20%, which will happen pretty soon, under 80% market share is not profitable for car companies to keep making ICE. Considering significant environmental changes that are happening now, many more people will embrace EVs( my 10 year old told me this morning I should take tesla instead my m5 to work to be more responsible, go figure!).
So as much as traditional car companies wanted to drag their feet to stay away from EVs, but market and governmental policies make them to be less dependent on ICE cars.

Two things:

We are specifically talking about M cars. Not basic models

Explain to me how under 80% market share isn’t profitable for ICE but 20% market share is profitable for EV.

[OGM1]

Originally Posted by OC-M3CX

AmuroRay

Suck my left nut you bird brained bozo

I suspect he's trolling or caught in an echo chamber that keeps feeding him the same ideas. Much like 2020 election deniers, any facts that dispute their ideas are disregarded as propaganda.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Bogus? My guy, that's from Shell Energy directly.

New link, because it changed - https://www.shellenergy.co.uk/blog/p...ture-of-energy

So a smart meter is supposed to lead to rationing electricity?

You do know a meter can't actually shut off the supply of electricity, correct? You need to do that the same way if you have a dumb meter.

In any event, this argument is about whether M Car should be BEV, PHEV or ICE. Not conspiracy theories.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by ghaffari46

100 years ago people would have thought the same for ice cars, and gas stations poped up on any corner in a matter of years, electrical charges stations are much easier to build these days, and in reality, the last time I used supercharger was 3 months ago on my way to DC. And I’m using only regular 110 charging in my garage (too lazy to install 220!) and it’s more than enough for my 40 miles daily commute.
Yeah infrastructure needs to be improved, but we captured the moon, didn’t we?

100 years ago the alternative was a horse. Not apples to apples on product change comparison.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by OGM1

I suspect he's trolling or caught in an echo chamber that keeps feeding him the same ideas. Much like 2020 election deniers, any facts that dispute their ideas are disregarded as propaganda.

Why is your entire profile full of cringey political rhetoric? This is a BMW forum bud.

[yousefnjr]

Anything on the front page remotely related to EV’s ends up with the same dudes bickering over climate change

[ghaffari46]

Originally Posted by NGT2

100 years ago the alternative was a horse. Not apples to apples on product change comparison.

And these days you have tesla s and bmw ix and taycan as alternatives.
Don’t get me wrong, I have had m3 s and m5 and m6 and i daily an i8 and im getting my m2 next month, I just got home from a trip from Europe and i saw how much more EV cars they have on the road compared to last year. ( lots of Hyundai, Kia, id4, skoda, Peugeot, Mercedes electric and of course teslas are everywhere)
I don’t see a reason why an electric M car can not be fun to drive. Before we take it as an insult all of us should try a model s or tycan.

[falconey]

Originally Posted by SoCali E36

This will be the death of M if it goes all electric. I sell these cars and it’s pretty obvious what people prefer. All we have is electric models sitting around while the gas models continue to fly off the lot. And now bmw is tossing huge incentives at the electrics because they’re not moving.

Hell, there are over 300 XM’s out there not assigning to dealers sitting around in priorty 5 status. The XM should be the example bmw learns from. People with money don’t want electric or plug-in hybrids as performance cars.

You're crazy. An electric M3 at similar price point would fly off the lots. The XM is a huge vehicle that sells for damn near 200k. Oh yeah and it's more of a combustion car than it is electric. Not even the same category as an M3 or M3 equivalent.

[OGM1]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Why is your entire profile full of cringey political rhetoric? This is a BMW forum bud.

Yes, I'm aware of this being a BMW forum. As to my profile, it's none of your business. Free speech playa. Does my profile violate forum rules? Are there off topic subs?

[TractionControlDelete]

Seems like hydrid makes the most sense, no? They’ve already gone that direction with the XM and the next M5 so I’d be shocked if it was purely ICE or purely EV.

[falconey]

Originally Posted by ano0oj

Hybrid is clearly the next evolution for M. The XM and new M5 are hybrids, those things trickle down eventually.

All electric would be a disaster, and BMW knows they'll lose their loyal M fans if that happens too soon.

I remember folks saying the same thing regarding the g80 grill, lol.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by ghaffari46

And these days you have tesla s and bmw ix and taycan as alternatives.
Don’t get me wrong, I have had m3 s and m5 and m6 and i daily an i8 and im getting my m2 next month, I just got home from a trip from Europe and i saw how much more EV cars they have on the road compared to last year. ( lots of Hyundai, Kia, id4, skoda, Peugeot, Mercedes electric and of course teslas are everywhere)
I don’t see a reason why an electric M car can not be fun to drive. Before we take it as an insult all of us should try a model s or tycan.

I have tried both.

Model S is a Tesla. World class powertrain, very hard to match EPA rated range, excellent software, low parts quality, maniac at the helm. I enjoy driving the S, and would like to see how a facelifted S drives. A friend of mine who is a serial car owner and has owned 7 Teslas, currently owns a Taycan plus a 911 Turbo S and has a GT3 RS on order has driven and said that other than brakes, it's a fantastic driving car. I personally don't fit in the Model S that well, not enough headroom for me as the seats are too tall.

Taycan - I want to love this. I'm a Porsche owner and an EV fan BUT I've never gelled with it after owning a Model 3 Performance. To get to Model 3 Performance acceleration levels you have to step up to GTS trim, which means you're at $150k. And it feels....heavy. The Model 3 and even the Model S do not. Note...feeling heavy and actually BEING heavy are not the same thing. Heavy car can feel light and a light car can feel heavy. I just don't jibe with the tuning choices that the Porsche engineers made. The packaging of the car is poor...it's a huge car with a very tight cabin. Between those two things it turns me off.

Now, it is a first generation EV product. It's a hell of a start. I have ZERO doubt that the EV Macan will be fantastic to drive. The 718? I have doubts but also faith, in that if they can keep the weight reasonable, and have a powerful enough motor, it will be great. Porsche still makes a great driver's car. Hell, 9/10 people who drive a Taycan would get out with their jaws on the floor. But after driving a Model 3, I can't do it. Not for the money they charge.

The emotion, too, is tough. IMO, Huyndai with the Ioniq 5 N with the fake engine noise and the simulated shifts (seriously, you pull the paddle and it interrupts torque and makes a "bump") is how performance EV's will be in the future. Is that heresy? To a certain extent. But I don't consider an M car to be a pure performance car, so I'm not as fussed. In a sports car it'll be a harder sell for me. The problem is even in a psycho-fast EV, when you are driving it slow, it feels the same as a slow EV. A Taycan Turbo S at 30 feels very similar to a Taycan RWD. Whereas a GT3 feels WAY different than a base Carrera.

[M3WC]

Until these legacy automakers can increase their EV margins, they can't and won't go all electric.

The numbers simply aren't there. BMW and many other brands are subsidizing EV production with ICE sales.

Battery production scaling is not living up to expectations.

[OGM1]

Originally Posted by falconey

I remember folks saying the same thing regarding the g80 grill, lol.

Guilty as charged. It grew on me over time and now I like them better than the smaller kidney grills.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

Seems like hydrid makes the most sense, no? They’ve already gone that direction with the XM and the next M5 so I’d be shocked if it was purely ICE or purely EV.

Hybrid can be good but tricky to get right. If you go in the direction the XM has gone and try to make it a PHEV with significant EV range...no, no good. You've got too much battery and you end up with too heavy of a car lacking performance. The thing can't even out-perform an X5M. That car should have been an X8 //M60. It would have been FINE. But because they called it, not only an //M but an actual letter //M it set expectations it couldn't possibly hit.

OTOH, somehow Mercedes managed to make the C63 weigh more than if they made it out of tungsten, even with a very small battery with, what, less than 10 miles of range and a 4 banger. Probably because it has 80 gazillion motors and AWD. As a result it has all the HP's but none of the feelz.

I'm really intrigued to try the E-Ray. On paper, I think they have gotten it right. And from early ride-alongs, it seems like reality is matching the paper. We will see.

But the BIGGIE is going to be the 992.2. Hybrid is coming to the 911. The 992 is already pretty super-sized for a 911. How will it feel and drive? Stay tuned...

(P.S. I own a Cayenne PHEV now so I live with the pros and cons and I'm not talking out my a$$).

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by OGM1

Yes, I'm aware of this being a BMW forum. As to my profile, it's none of your business. Free speech playa. Does my profile violate forum rules? Are there off topic subs?

Where did I tell you to take it down? I just like you enough to let you know how lame it is. Its what friends do.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

But the BIGGIE is going to be the 992.2. Hybrid is coming to the 911. The 992 is already pretty super-sized for a 911. How will it feel and drive? Stay tuned...

992 won't be a plug-in, so the battery is going to be quite small. The E-ray only has a 1.9kwh battery. In grand scheme of things it won't add much weight. Driving dynamics will be spared. XM is carrying around a 25.7kwh battery pack, which probably weighs in the neighborhood of 400+ lbs.

[LemonOne]

"If not, we will stay with [the] combustion engine. It's pretty easy. But, of course, we're trying to make that happen as pure electric. Don't expect an electric version to be sold alongside an ICE-powered variant or a plug-in hybrid model. "Well, I don't think all three. That will be too far, said van Meel.

"Actually, we would like to offer just one. But you never know," he added.

Sounds like it will be ICE for the next generation
I hate elctric cars, they are like cell phones, you don't keep your phone after 10-20 years, do you?

[mirob]

Sign me up for a BEV M3 when they cram a zero-point energy device into it.

Until then, I'll keep terrorizing the town nerds in my ratchet G80.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by i4M50Guy

Full BEV. 4 motor, 1000+ BHP. Do it!

with a petrol generator to replenish small battery pack and this