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      08-06-2019, 01:42 PM   #23
solstice
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“Not sure if I follow the distinction you are drawing between blipping the throttle and rev-matching.”

To me Rev matching is what every manual driver do when they use the throttle to in a synchronized manner use the throttle to match the engine speed with the new gear while letting out the clutch. It’s done for up and downshifts with two pedals, the throttle and the clutch. No brake pedal or throttle blip involved.

Heel toe action involves all three pedals and a throttle blip. It’s only used at downshifts. With a blip there is no synchronized move of the throttle and clutch to rev. match at the exact time of closing the clutch, instead you blip to overshoot the gears speed so you can for an instant instant let go of the throttle and get back on the brake while in the same time closing the clutch.

The auto rev. Match of the M3 blip the throttle on downshifts and rev. Matches on upshifts. It is a nice feature that IMO does not take away much if anything from the joy of MT driving.

Last edited by solstice; 08-06-2019 at 02:33 PM..
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      08-06-2019, 02:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
I agree with some statement but, you never want to shift mid corner.
That can hurt you on the track, specially if you drop the clutch to fast
Absolutely and that’s why I said into corners not through corners. You want to be firmly in gear when it’s time to get on the throttle. At the same time you don’t want to complete downshifting too early either especially if you are coming to a sharp corner requiring a very low gear to exit since the engine braking will be too aggressive ( or risk a money shift ). As someone mentioned it’s good habit to downshift in the braking zone but the braking zone is not often/always a straight line with no lateral forces so a jolt free downshift at corner entry is a important tool if you are chasing lap times.

Last edited by solstice; 08-06-2019 at 02:40 PM..
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      08-06-2019, 07:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
I wish for NO rev matching : because it takes all the fun and engagement out of driving.

AWD 6MT most likely will not happen in mine opinion.
But couldn't complain for folks that are in colder climates.

Pedal placement is easy fix for me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
I wish for NO rev matching : because it takes all the fun and engagement out of driving.

AWD 6MT most likely will not happen in mine opinion.
But couldn't complain for folks that are in colder climates.

Pedal placement is easy fix for me
I know hot to drive MT but not really experience in heal/toe at all. I tried.... and I suck in this. Haha

I will be taking classes from MIKO M he will be training me next year on track. THANK YOU!!

Did some reading and it can be a issue with pedal height.

How do you fix pedal placement if is to high or low?

Miko M
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      08-06-2019, 09:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M 4EVER View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
I wish for NO rev matching : because it takes all the fun and engagement out of driving.

AWD 6MT most likely will not happen in mine opinion.
But couldn't complain for folks that are in colder climates.

Pedal placement is easy fix for me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
I wish for NO rev matching : because it takes all the fun and engagement out of driving.

AWD 6MT most likely will not happen in mine opinion.
But couldn't complain for folks that are in colder climates.

Pedal placement is easy fix for me
I know hot to drive MT but not really experience in heal/toe at all. I tried.... and I suck in this. Haha

I will be taking classes from MIKO M he will be training me next year on track. THANK YOU!!

Did some reading and it can be a issue with pedal height.

How do you fix pedal placement if is to high or low?

Miko M
You don't have to post who is gone train you!

The pedal height you can change with push rod in a clockwise direction to increase the height of the brake pedal. Or counterclockwise to lower the hight.

Also when you track the car, the brake will fade so the travel will change.
Better brakes are more consistent and, brake fluid is BIG factor too!!!

This loss of pedal feel or pedal consistency is a function of brake fluids with decreased chemical and high-temperature

Racing brake fluid resulting in reduced or almost nonexistent compressibility and an absolute and consistent pedal feel.
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      08-08-2019, 10:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M 4EVER View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
I wish for NO rev matching : because it takes all the fun and engagement out of driving.

AWD 6MT most likely will not happen in mine opinion.
But couldn't complain for folks that are in colder climates.

Pedal placement is easy fix for me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
I wish for NO rev matching : because it takes all the fun and engagement out of driving.

AWD 6MT most likely will not happen in mine opinion.
But couldn't complain for folks that are in colder climates.

Pedal placement is easy fix for me
I know hot to drive MT but not really experience in heal/toe at all. I tried.... and I suck in this. Haha

I will be taking classes from MIKO M he will be training me next year on track. THANK YOU!!

Did some reading and it can be a issue with pedal height.

How do you fix pedal placement if is to high or low?

Miko M
You don't have to post who is gone train you!

The pedal height you can change with push rod in a clockwise direction to increase the height of the brake pedal. Or counterclockwise to lower the hight.

Also when you track the car, the brake will fade so the travel will change.
Better brakes are more consistent and, brake fluid is BIG factor too!!!

This loss of pedal feel or pedal consistency is a function of brake fluids with decreased chemical and high-temperature

Racing brake fluid resulting in reduced or almost nonexistent compressibility and an absolute and consistent pedal feel.
Adjusting pedal height is native to the M3/M4?
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      08-08-2019, 10:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
"Not sure if I follow the distinction you are drawing between blipping the throttle and rev-matching."

To me Rev matching is what every manual driver do when they use the throttle to in a synchronized manner use the throttle to match the engine speed with the new gear while letting out the clutch. It's done for up and downshifts with two pedals, the throttle and the clutch. No brake pedal or throttle blip involved.

Heel toe action involves all three pedals and a throttle blip. It's only used at downshifts. With a blip there is no synchronized move of the throttle and clutch to rev. match at the exact time of closing the clutch, instead you blip to overshoot the gears speed so you can for an instant instant let go of the throttle and get back on the brake while in the same time closing the clutch.

The auto rev. Match of the M3 blip the throttle on downshifts and rev. Matches on upshifts. It is a nice feature that IMO does not take away much if anything from the joy of MT driving.
I agree with everything stated here, especially your final point.
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      08-19-2019, 07:17 PM   #29
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I'm fine with less power. To make up for that, I would like hydraulic steering. Or electric steering, I don't really care, as long as it feels like my old e90. BMW won't sell that may MT models anyway, so how much of a dent would hydraulic steering make to their overall gas mileage requirements. Or if they go electric, why not tune it for the people who buy manuals transmissions. I'm fairly sure that someone who buys an M3/M4 with a manual transmission is not looking for numb steering.
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      08-22-2019, 05:32 PM   #30
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      08-31-2019, 11:31 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
If i may ask: Knowing to rev-match what's the point to have one?
It's a habit where you don't even think, you just do it. It's programmed in your subconscious mind. Which means you are doing it without knowing it!
I've been driving automatics since I got married. Tried to teach the Wife to drive and she could never get the heal-toe thing, she hated the jerking from downshifting. I have been itching for 10 years to get back into a stick. Recently, I drove a 340i ZHP Manual, I really liked the rev match and it was much smoother when downshifting, sealed my decision to get a manual M as next car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
I am ok with Rev Matching as long as it can be disabled in Sport+. The later models (F80 before it went out of production and F82s made in recent months) have Rev Matching in all 3 throttle maps.

I had 50k miles on my 16 F80 when I jumped into an M3 CS. The Rev Matching was VERY inconsistent the entire time, would work for a day and then not work for a week...it was insane.
It would seem that the "Rev Match" should be an on/off option, just open the iDrive and select yes or no and have the memory set to keep as last setting so when you don't have to reset to your preferred position each time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pic18 View Post
After getting used to it I actually really like the rev-match feature and think it can actually add a bit of fun to street driving. That said I do not know why it can't just be a separate button that you turn on and off at will. When it is useful to you turn it on, when it is not turn it off.
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      09-03-2019, 09:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
I'm fine with less power. To make up for that, I would like hydraulic steering. Or electric steering, I don't really care, as long as it feels like my old e90. BMW won't sell that may MT models anyway, so how much of a dent would hydraulic steering make to their overall gas mileage requirements. Or if they go electric, why not tune it for the people who buy manuals transmissions. I'm fairly sure that someone who buys an M3/M4 with a manual transmission is not looking for numb steering.
This! I would love a model with hydraulic steering. It has so much more feel than ĎThe very best EPS systemí

I wonder how much it would hurt emissions and regulation compliance? Some Japanese cars still offer it new, but I imagine cost for a single model would make this proposal impossible?

Not everyone loves hydraulic the way I do, but for my tastes, the feel is vastly superior. I am hopeful that the G80 EPS will be improved since the engineers have had many years to develop the system.
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      09-03-2019, 11:07 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M 4EVER View Post
I know hot to drive MT but not really experience in heal/toe at all. I tried.... and I suck in this. Haha

I will be taking classes from MIKO M he will be training me next year on track. THANK YOU!!

Did some reading and it can be a issue with pedal height.

How do you fix pedal placement if is to high or low?

Miko M

If the pedals are not ideal you can change how you move your foot.

*Eliminate the word heel* and just focus on inputs from your foot. In some cars I have heel action, but some cars only work with little to no heel action (at least with my feet).

I owned a Focus RS that I could only heel/toe with no heel motion....inner-foot/outer-foot was how I heel/toed. You could call it big-toe/pinky-toe.....
On my 1M, I can do heel/toe with heel motion.

This would be my sequence: Inside of foot (Break), hold break, roll foot to get rpms’s up (outside of foot on gas) *shift* then roll foot off of break onto the gas pedal. Works easier for me in lighter shoes and is a blast to practice.

As always, YMMV.....

Here is an example in a Focus RS. I am guessing he had the same issue as myself in this car, thus eliminated heel motion.

Last edited by seis-speed; 09-05-2019 at 01:55 AM..
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      09-05-2019, 09:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M 4EVER View Post
I know hot to drive MT but not really experience in heal/toe at all. I tried.... and I suck in this. Haha

I will be taking classes from MIKO M he will be training me next year on track. THANK YOU!!

Did some reading and it can be a issue with pedal height.

How do you fix pedal placement if is to high or low?

Miko M

If the pedals are not ideal you can change how you move your foot.

*Eliminate the word heel* and just focus on inputs from your foot. In some cars I have heel action, but some cars only work with little to no heel action (at least with my feet).

I owned a Focus RS that I could only heel/toe with no heel motion....inner-foot/outer-foot was how I heel/toed. You could call it big-toe/pinky-toe.....
On my 1M, I can do heel/toe with heel motion.

This would be my sequence: Inside of foot (Break), hold break, roll foot to get rpms's up (outside of foot on gas) *shift* then roll foot off of break onto the gas pedal. Works easier for me in lighter shoes and is a blast to practice.

As always, YMMV.....

Here is an example in a Focus RS. I am guessing he had the same issue as myself in this car, thus eliminated heel motion.
Some cars have really high break pedal hight. So worst case there is also MECHANICAL adjustment for hight.

There was times that I needed to adjust mine self to make it easier.
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      09-09-2019, 08:35 AM   #35
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Who the hell wants to rev match themselves... i see there are so many professional race car drivers on this forum... I can only imagine how many burned clutches they had... if anything auto rev matching is an addition to the pleasure of driving a manual not the other way around! I do however agree, there should be an option to simply turn it on or off in any mode! Personally I would always keep it on as there is no way I can always perfectly rev match as good as the computer, specially on the racetrack!
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      09-09-2019, 11:59 AM   #36
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Back on topic:
I want a RWD or AWD 6 speed with all of the power. I'm not spending a ton of money (which i'm sure this thing will be), for a car with power levels depending on which transmission you pick.
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      09-09-2019, 12:23 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av.7447 View Post
Who the hell wants to rev match themselves... i see there are so many professional race car drivers on this forum... I can only imagine how many burned clutches they had... if anything auto rev matching is an addition to the pleasure of driving a manual not the other way around! I do however agree, there should be an option to simply turn it on or off in any mode! Personally I would always keep it on as there is no way I can always perfectly rev match as good as the computer, specially on the racetrack!
What?!? Why wouldn't you want to rev match yourself?!? It's not that hard to do with a little practice.
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      09-10-2019, 07:33 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
Back on topic:
I want a RWD or AWD 6 speed with all of the power. I'm not spending a ton of money (which i'm sure this thing will be), for a car with power levels depending on which transmission you pick.
It seems like that is what is coming though -- a detuned version with the 6MT? BMW is likely assuming that the "build it and they will come" mantra will play out in enough demand to make it worth the expense.


I've always planned to order a 6MT example, but at this point I think I'm out completely on the G80. I spent a good bit of time looking over a G20 last week, and the car is simply too big. It's as big or bigger (sure feels bigger) than my E39 M5 I sold last year, and I'm just not interested in such a massive M3. Next to my E90 M3, the G20 looks humongous.

One has to wonder just how long this "turn a 3-series into a 5-series" thing will continue. Even though the G20 is now at the size of an E23 7-series (actually it has a longer wheelbase and is wider and taller than the E23), it somehow manages to appear and feel even larger.
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      09-10-2019, 10:03 AM   #39
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Only true manual enthusiasts will live with that future grille to have a manual
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      09-10-2019, 12:03 PM   #40
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The grill looks fine to me... what did you expect, an old grill? I donít understand whatís this big fuss about a big grill...
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      09-10-2019, 01:43 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av.7447 View Post
Who the hell wants to rev match themselves... i see there are so many professional race car drivers on this forum... I can only imagine how many burned clutches they had... if anything auto rev matching is an addition to the pleasure of driving a manual not the other way around! I do however agree, there should be an option to simply turn it on or off in any mode! Personally I would always keep it on as there is no way I can always perfectly rev match as good as the computer, specially on the racetrack!
They also sell cars that eliminate the "pain in the ass" of shifting....
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      09-10-2019, 02:57 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by NUTScapes View Post
Only true manual enthusiasts will live with that future grille to have a manual
Yes indeed.

They had me at "manual transmission on offer".....

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      09-10-2019, 03:40 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
It seems like that is what is coming though -- a detuned version with the 6MT? BMW is likely assuming that the "build it and they will come" mantra will play out in enough demand to make it worth the expense.


I've always planned to order a 6MT example, but at this point I think I'm out completely on the G80. I spent a good bit of time looking over a G20 last week, and the car is simply too big. It's as big or bigger (sure feels bigger) than my E39 M5 I sold last year, and I'm just not interested in such a massive M3. Next to my E90 M3, the G20 looks humongous.

One has to wonder just how long this "turn a 3-series into a 5-series" thing will continue. Even though the G20 is now at the size of an E23 7-series (actually it has a longer wheelbase and is wider and taller than the E23), it somehow manages to appear and feel even larger.
I agree with this. Along with the questionable grill, next M3 and M4 are just too big length wise and I'm sure weight wise. Plus AWD and no DCT. Hard to spend $80k on something with all these negatives. I prefer cars the size of an M2 or 911.
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      09-11-2019, 01:42 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
I agree with this. Along with the questionable grill, next M3 and M4 are just too big length wise and I'm sure weight wise. Plus AWD and no DCT. Hard to spend $80k on something with all these negatives. I prefer cars the size of an M2 or 911.
Sounds good to me... the 5 series is getting too big as well so I guess It will make perfect sense to move down to a 3 series... 😂 Hopefully this time they will have cooled seats and soft close doors available on an M3 with a manual! 😅
Ok fine, maybe not soft close doors but cooled seats!!! Hello BMW!!! A C class comes with cooled seats!!! 😡
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