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View Poll Results: My choice for a G8X M3/M4 alternative will be a:
Mercedes 53 11.02%
Porsche 217 45.11%
Audi 40 8.32%
TESLA 36 7.48%
Chevrolet Corvette C8 45 9.36%
Other 84 17.46%
A different BMW 6 1.25%
Voters: 481. You may not vote on this poll

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      10-26-2020, 01:26 AM   #441
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Waiting for G87 M2. Besides the ugly front, the new M3/M4 is far too heavy and too big. If the G87 doesn't hit the mark, will be switching brands.
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      10-26-2020, 11:59 AM   #442
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Originally Posted by DecemberStorm View Post
I'm not coming from a M car but curious to hear what F8X folks are gonna switch to. In the same price bracket not many competitive choices unfortunately. In my shopping process seriously considered the G82, W205 C63S,and a few Porsche models ( 718 GTS and Macan GTS)

911s are a lot more expensive. A reasonably specced 992 C2S in Canada is easily top of line M5 money.

I'm personally bit sad missing out on the last year of W205 C63S Coupe. Mechanically the car is still awesome with the V8, the MCT gearbox and the trick traction control system that BMW def copied to the G8X 😁 .. but rest of car is rather long in the tooth and it's somehow even more expensive than G82 and AMGs lease horribly in Canada.

I quickly crossed off the current RS5 from the list, would argue the facelift Macan GTS or Turbo is the better application of the EA839 2.9TT V6 in this price range from VAG. The GTS Macan is a decent "deal " relative to the Turbo but I can't stomach >90k cad for the performance disparities vs G82.

That leaves the Giulia QF, the fossil specimen known as RCF and whatever comes out of Cadillac CT5 Blackwing.... Really need fresh competition!
I'm more surprised AMG is killing off the V8 in the c63 in favor of a hybridised version of their 4 pot in the A45. That will sway a lot of their clientele towards BMW M imo
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      10-26-2020, 12:35 PM   #443
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I put a deposit on a 992 turbo. I am not too keen on the styling of the G8X, but I could have lived with it if they would have made a 3,500~3,600lb DCT M4 priced in the F8X range (with normal inflation).
$200k out of the door, more than I want to pay for a street car and WAY more $$$ than I want to track. Fantastic car though Iím sure, I havenít driven the turbo. You know itís AWD, right? You spend quite a lot of time hating on AWD here so itís surprising to hear.
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      10-26-2020, 12:42 PM   #444
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I'm more surprised AMG is killing off the V8 in the c63 in favor of a hybridised version of their 4 pot in the A45. That will sway a lot of their clientele towards BMW M imo
just a bunch of silly biz planning decision from MB recently... I think the rationale behind the "C63e" is their EV stuff is delayed and AMG sales way up so their emissions penalty is looking very heavy.

Band-aid solution is to greenify the best selling AMG model, very sad to see. If they call it the C45 I think there'd be more acceptance...

Next Audi RS4/5 will be a PHEV too, but logically I'd guess it would be the 2.9TT hybrid powertrain pushing 550hp from the facelift Panamera.

So funny enough despite the outcry, BMW will laugh to the bank with the enthusiast dollars this gen
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      10-26-2020, 01:27 PM   #445
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$200k out of the door, more than I want to pay for a street car and WAY more $$$ than I want to track. Fantastic car though I’m sure, I haven’t driven the turbo. You know it’s AWD, right? You spend quite a lot of time hating on AWD here so it’s surprising to hear.
It is indeed a fair bit of additional of pocket change, the 911turbo is in quite a different market segment than the M3/4 for sure. Even if I could afford a 911, I've stuck with the M3/4 over the years because they really appealed to me, they suited my needs very well and I could really associate with them. That's no longer the case with the G8X. The 992turbo now suits what I am looking for in a car better for a single 4-season dual use car. Previous gen 911turbo were more focused as GT cars and not necessarily optimal for the track. Porsche seem to have changed that quite significantly with the 992turbo, where track performance has been much enhanced. I would really love a GT3, but they are too compromised as daily drivers. Several of my friends own GT3/GT3RS and are unanimous in saying they would not consider daily driving them. Plus I need the rear seats to schlepp the kiddies around on occasion. I originally considered 992 C2S, but when I started looking into the 992, the turbo caught my attention. Yes, AWD is not my preferred option, but all the reviews I've read/watched praised how well the AWD has been implemented on the 992turbo, and at 3,500~3,600lb it remains decently light. It is the video below by Tim Schrick that swayed me into the turbo, they way he describes how the car handles on track really speaks to me.

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      10-26-2020, 01:40 PM   #446
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It is indeed a fair bit additional of pocket change, the 911turbo is in quite a different market segment than the M3/4 for sure. Even if I could afford a 911, I've stuck with the M3/4 over the years because the really appealed to me, they suited my needs very well and I could really associate with them. That's no longer the case with the G8X. The 992turbo now suits what I am looking for in a car better for a single 4-season dual use car. Previous gen 911turbo were more focused as GT cars and not necessarily optimal for the track. Porsche seem to have changed that quite significantly with the 992turbo, where track performance has been much enhanced. I would really love a GT3, but they are too compromised as daily drivers. Several of my friends own GT3/GT3RS and all all are unanimous in saying they would not consider daily driving them. Plus I need the rear seats to schlepp the kiddies around on occasion. I originally considered 992S, but when starting looking into the 992 the turbo caught my attention. Yes, AWD is not my preferred option, but all the reviews I've read/watched praised how well the AWD has been implemented on the 992turbo, and at ~3,600lb loaded it remains decently light. It is the video below by Tim Schrick that swayed me into the turbo, they way he describes how the car handles on track really speaks to me.

I always appreciate your perspective and your automotive knowledge, even if we don't agree on much lately (the Kith collab being one).

I love P cars. I've been able to afford nearly all P cars on the date I signed my last 2 F80 leases, and still went with the F80 on both ocassions. Idk why. I just love the M3. I do track my cars (not to the extent you do). I do love a Porsche manual transmission. The styling on the lower 911's doesn't appeal to me and the GT and Turbo cars seem like horrible daily drivers for someone with a toddler.

I also put 20k+ miles on my cars each year and that is way too much for such a special and rare care as a GT3, Turbo S, etc.
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      10-26-2020, 04:10 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
I always appreciate your perspective and your automotive knowledge, even if we don't agree on much lately (the Kith collab being one).


Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
...and the GT and Turbo cars seem like horrible daily drivers for someone with a toddler.
Agreed on the GT3. However the 911turbo is no less practical as a daily driver than the other 911... I have two kids, 9 and 6 and they fit relatively comfortably in the rear of a 992. That being said, a 911 remains much less practical than an M3/4. For me, my biggest gripe with a 911 is no longer being able to carry track wheels inside the car .

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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
I also put 20k+ miles on my cars each year and that is way too much for such a special and rare care as a GT3, Turbo S, etc.
With 10k miles/year, I do less than you, albeit a fair bit of it is on track . These cars are meant to be driven
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      10-26-2020, 04:14 PM   #448
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I do less than that, albeit a fair bit of it is on track . These cars are meant to be driven
I hear ya...but have you ever seen anyone try and sell a GT3 with 60k miles on it after 3 years? You can find them typically in the 6k mile/year of ownership range in the NYC area and they hold their value well (making a new one a relative bargain to a 3 year old model that's sold for not much less than the MSRP because it was babied).

I also abhor car ownership. I lease. I will never own a car until they outlaw the production of ICE and I have to buy one to stay in the game.

People disagree with me, but that's my preference.
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      10-26-2020, 04:45 PM   #449
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Too heavy (300lb over the F8X), too big (wheelbase longer than an 8-series), demise of the DCT and too pricey (huge price hike in Canada) will have me change brands when it's time to replace my M4cs.
The exact same reasons I'm replacing my F80 with a F87CS
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      10-26-2020, 05:00 PM   #450
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It is indeed a fair bit of additional of pocket change, the 911turbo is in quite a different market segment than the M3/4 for sure. Even if I could afford a 911, I've stuck with the M3/4 over the years because they really appealed to me, they suited my needs very well and I could really associate with them. That's no longer the case with the G8X. The 992turbo now suits what I am looking for in a car better for a single 4-season dual use car. Previous gen 911turbo were more focused as GT cars and not necessarily optimal for the track. Porsche seem to have changed that quite significantly with the 992turbo, where track performance has been much enhanced. I would really love a GT3, but they are too compromised as daily drivers. Several of my friends own GT3/GT3RS and are unanimous in saying they would not consider daily driving them. Plus I need the rear seats to schlepp the kiddies around on occasion. I originally considered 992 C2S, but when I started looking into the 992, the turbo caught my attention. Yes, AWD is not my preferred option, but all the reviews I've read/watched praised how well the AWD has been implemented on the 992turbo, and at ~3,600lb loaded it remains decently light. It is the video below by Tim Schrick that swayed me into the turbo, they way he describes how the car handles on track really speaks to me.

You’re an all in kind of guy, I’ll be interested in hearing the yearly maintenance and administration costs of tracking one of these vs. the M3 after you take delivery.

My own experience with P-cars is that everything is twice the cost vs a comparable BMW. The 992 Turbo is twice the car of any BMW, so my guess, 4x the cost...
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      10-26-2020, 05:01 PM   #451
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You’re an all in kind of guy, I’ll be interested in hearing the yearly maintenance and administration costs of tracking one of these vs. the M3 after you take delivery.
I do know it's gonna be much more expensive

But I also know that tracking an G8X will also be more expensive than an F8X, that extra power and weight will be shredding tires and brakes.
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      10-26-2020, 11:59 PM   #452
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The irony for me is G80 CSL buyers will pay a bomb to get a car that will be lucky to get close to the F80's weight.
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      10-27-2020, 03:20 PM   #453
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The irony for me is G80 CSL buyers will pay a bomb to get a car that will be lucky to get close to the F80's weight.
I feel like the more hardcore F80 owners are eyeing the G87 instead to get the S58 in a package that will weigh similar to the F80.
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      10-27-2020, 03:32 PM   #454
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I feel like the more hardcore F80 owners are eyeing the G87 instead to get the S58 in a package that will weigh similar to the F80.
The G8X is soft transition into the new reality when performance cars will be much heavier. Hybrids and BEVs will reset the notion of what a dual purpose car should be and weigh. Sub 3k lbs performance cars was long the standard but it has been gone for a while, cars like the E30 M3, 993 and F40 balanced on 3k. We have accepted 3500 lbs for a while but with Hybrids and BEVs we will move into 4k+.

It will be interesting to see how many will accept it and learn to enjoy the added TQ, traction and resulting speed and how many will continue run old cars from here on.
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      10-27-2020, 06:56 PM   #455
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I feel like the more hardcore F80 owners are eyeing the G87 instead to get the S58 in a package that will weigh similar to the F80.
This is the only hope for bmw and m to stay relevant. The G80 is bigger than the E39 M5 is nearly every way, and in AWD configs surely will weigh more. Which is fine if you want an M 5er size car. But it wasnt necessary but a choice made by bmw for reasons still hard to understand. But lets hope the next M2 bridges back to the old M3s when they made the M what it is today.
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      10-27-2020, 08:19 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
$200k out of the door, more than I want to pay for a street car and WAY more $$$ than I want to track. Fantastic car though I'm sure, I haven't driven the turbo. You know it's AWD, right? You spend quite a lot of time hating on AWD here so it's surprising to hear.
It is indeed a fair bit of additional of pocket change, the 911[SIZE="1"]turbo[/SIZE] is in quite a different market segment than the M3/4 for sure. Even if I could afford a 911, I've stuck with the M3/4 over the years because they really appealed to me, they suited my needs very well and I could really associate with them. That's no longer the case with the G8X. The 992[SIZE="1"]turbo[/SIZE] now suits what I am looking for in a car better for a single 4-season dual use car. Previous gen 911[SIZE="1"]turbo[/SIZE] were more focused as GT cars and not necessarily optimal for the track. Porsche seem to have changed that quite significantly with the 992[SIZE="1"]turbo[/SIZE], where track performance has been much enhanced. I would really love a GT3, but they are too compromised as daily drivers. Several of my friends own GT3/GT3RS and are unanimous in saying they would not consider daily driving them. Plus I need the rear seats to schlepp the kiddies around on occasion. I originally considered 992 C2S, but when I started looking into the 992, the turbo caught my attention. Yes, AWD is not my preferred option, but all the reviews I've read/watched praised how well the AWD has been implemented on the 992[SIZE="1"]turbo[/SIZE], and at 3,500~3,600lb it remains decently light. It is the video below by Tim Schrick that swayed me into the turbo, they way he describes how the car handles on track really speaks to me.

The problem with the 911tts is that:

1) it stays new for like 2-3 years tops. .2 or new gen comes every 3 years and that's not counting you wait 3-5 month for delivery even though order it at car launch.

2) huge depreciation. In my market, for a 3 year period of ownership, the TCO easily approaches Ferrari 488/F8 territory, given value retention.

911 is great but as much as I hate it, all of those always lead to value topic. I myself is in a huge debate on G8X or 992, things just don't make sense as you keep looking and speccing up.
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      10-27-2020, 09:16 PM   #457
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The problem with the 911tts is that:

1) it stays new for like 2-3 years tops. .2 or new gen comes every 3 years and that's not counting you wait 3-5 month for delivery even though order it at car launch.

2) huge depreciation. In my market, for a 3 year period of ownership, the TCO easily approaches Ferrari 488/F8 territory, given value retention.

911 is great but as much as I hate it, all of those always lead to value topic. I myself is in a huge debate on G8X or 992, things just don't make sense as you keep looking and speccing up.
This is true for all 911, not only the turbo. All variants get a meaningful update every ~3 years. If you want the latest an greatest, you'll be in a constant chase. At some point you need to settle and enjoy the one you buy and avoid the envy. Further, this is not a rational purchase, it is an emotional one. I've always loved the 911 but found the M3/4 offered a better overall compromise. Now I dislike the G8X enough to finally make the jump. It's going to cost whatever it's going to cost. After 3-4 years I'll decide if it was worth it or not; continue with a 911 or go to something else, but at least I will have experienced having an "everyday supercar" .
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      10-27-2020, 11:57 PM   #458
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When I purchased my 2018 M3 comp I leased it with the idea of a buyout. I kept the car pristine, low miles, PPF etc. At that point, I had already seen some of the leaks of the G8x, and I was not too interested in BMW's design language. Right now, I have a deposit and order down for an M2 CS which for my driving is going to be the preferable car. Rarer than the M3, shorter wheel base, and slightly less weight.

On the other hand, you have the G8x which has controversial looks, weighs a significant amount more (like BMW stopped trying amount), appears to have less tuning opportunities if the new ECUs are actually used anywhere in the generation (I hear off launch). To me, the G8x is more of a grand touring car at this point. Great highway driver, awesome 0-60 and 1/4 miles for those drag racers out there.

I'm looking for a purer driver experience and I'm willing to give up some "cool/flex" points for that with an M2 CS. For me, it's going through with that or keeping my car after the lease ends next summer.

That said, I'm not one to judge other individuals purchases, so for those who are interested in the G8x, I hope you enjoy it in good health.
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      10-28-2020, 02:13 AM   #459
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I feel like the more hardcore F80 owners are eyeing the G87 instead to get the S58 in a package that will weigh similar to the F80.
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This is the only hope for bmw and m to stay relevant. The G80 is bigger than the E39 M5 is nearly every way, and in AWD configs surely will weigh more. Which is fine if you want an M 5er size car. But it wasnt necessary but a choice made by bmw for reasons still hard to understand. But lets hope the next M2 bridges back to the old M3s when they made the M what it is today.
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      10-28-2020, 02:15 AM   #460
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I'm looking for a purer driver experience and I'm willing to give up some "cool/flex" points for that with an M2 CS. For me, it's going through with that or keeping my car after the lease ends next summer.
Get the M2CS, that will be a keeper.
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      10-28-2020, 08:42 AM   #461
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This is true for all 911, not only the turbo. All variants get a meaningful update every ~3 years. If you want the latest an greatest, you'll be in a constant chase. At some point you need to settle and enjoy the one you buy and avoid the envy. Further, this is not a rational purchase, it is an emotional one. I've always loved the 911 but found the M3/4 offered a better overall compromise. Now I dislike the G8X enough to finally make the jump. It's going to cost whatever it's going to cost. After 3-4 years I'll decide if it was worth it or not; continue with a 911 or go to something else, but at least I will have experienced having an "everyday supercar" .
Good luck man. If I had the funds for a 992 Turbo I would be all over it. Just can't justify it at this point. The car is awesome!
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      10-28-2020, 10:47 AM   #462
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