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View Poll Results: AWD?
Yes, AWD M3/M4 like the F90 M5 198 63.26%
No, keep it RWD 76 24.28%
Either way is cool with me 39 12.46%
Voters: 313. You may not vote on this poll

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      09-08-2017, 04:20 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Yep I think they will go AWD and end the DCT. Will get the ZF just like the new M5. Phase out manual.
I'm with you, but I'm an MT-phase-out denier. I think the business case would have to be overwhelming to phase it out as it's their tie to self-styled "purists" ... and media-types who don't own one, but are influencers.

that is, "yeah we got the ZF and the AWD, but we still have MT so we're still super badass!"

ADHD buyers are still a large revenue block.
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      09-08-2017, 05:02 PM   #112
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My question is: do you really want to add 300 lbs of weight and ZF slushbox to possibly the nimblest car in the segment to aid people who can't drive?

The following shows clearly his make-it-like-audi philosophy Frank had to say regarding the upcoming M5. This is the same director who ditched DCT on the current RS5 for ZF8 in the development stage because "the torque is too much." If you think about why you would need more torque, it is because the car is heavier. xDrive and ZF will always go together(+cost cutting) for this reason:


‘I remember talking to journalists at the Detroit motor show, and saying to them “600Nm and 600bhp only on the rear wheels – that’s not fun.” I had a lot of comments on the internet – “how could you say that!” But we knew, because we had a prototype [in testing], you can [still] always drive like a rear-wheel-drive car – but you have the advantage of the [driven] front axle when the rear is [over-] rotating.’


I personally hate manufacturers building cars that people can take the performance for granted but I understand such is needed for most cars. Not in an M.
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      09-08-2017, 05:13 PM   #113
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Same power, less weight, focus on aero would be amazing.
That has been the Ferrari approach. I like the idea.
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      09-08-2017, 08:05 PM   #114
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That has been the Ferrari approach. I like the idea.
I'm pretty sure it won't happen. M3 is always about being dual purpose (commuter + sport) and being able to mash the gas and unload 600hp on someone at a stoplight without any fuss is too valued by daily drivers for
Bmw to ignore

That use case is valid for probably 100% of m3 drivers but the weight/aero focus would only matter for limit driving at the track, which is a small % of m3 drivers

Bmw probably figured out that small % of track users will buy an old/race prepped m3, or a z06 or a gt3 regardless of what Bmw does so why bother catering to them
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      09-08-2017, 08:22 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
That has been the Ferrari approach. I like the idea.
I'm pretty sure it won't happen. M3 is always about being dual purpose (commuter + sport) and being able to mash the gas and unload 600hp on someone at a stoplight without any fuss is too valued by daily drivers for
Bmw to ignore

That use case is valid for probably 100% of m3 drivers but the weight/aero focus would only matter for limit driving at the track, which is a small % of m3 drivers

Bmw probably figured out that small % of track users will buy an old/race prepped m3, or a z06 or a gt3 regardless of what Bmw does so why bother catering to them
I tend to agree with this. May be why they are investing in the M2 CS and M4 CS in order to fill that enthusiast void while making the normal M more dual purpose.
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      09-08-2017, 09:22 PM   #116
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I tend to agree with this. May be why they are investing in the M2 CS and M4 CS in order to fill that enthusiast void while making the normal M more dual purpose.
I'm becoming a retro grouch but I see those "cs" cars and I wonder how much better is lap time vs e46 m3 with 275 wide nt01 all around and full coilovers (especially the m2 cs..)
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      09-08-2017, 09:24 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I tend to agree with this. May be why they are investing in the M2 CS and M4 CS in order to fill that enthusiast void while making the normal M more dual purpose.
I'm becoming a retro grouch but I see those "cs" cars and I wonder how much better is lap time vs e46 m3 with 275 wide nt01 all around and full coilovers (especially the m2 cs..)

I know when I ran up against that setup of car in my stock F80 with pss tires, I couldn't overcome the higher mid corner speed with the big s55 power advantage (which I couldn't 100% put to ground anyway due to pss tires...)
You we not alone my friend... I feel you
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      09-09-2017, 03:54 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
I'm pretty sure it won't happen. M3 is always about being dual purpose (commuter + sport) and being able to mash the gas and unload 600hp on someone at a stoplight without any fuss is too valued by daily drivers for
Bmw to ignore

That use case is valid for probably 100% of m3 drivers but the weight/aero focus would only matter for limit driving at the track, which is a small % of m3 drivers

Bmw probably figured out that small % of track users will buy an old/race prepped m3, or a z06 or a gt3 regardless of what Bmw does so why bother catering to them
I wouldn't mind xdrive as long as they make the separate model category like they do with C4S at Porsche. I'm afraid though they aren't gonna bother after some time using the same "torque is too much" logic.

What makes a good racing car is a lightweight chassis and drivetrain which M has been tradionally strong in the segment. Looks like they are trying to throw that away for boy racers who races on street to the next stoplight, which is sad.
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      09-09-2017, 04:07 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
I wouldn't mind xdrive as long as they make the separate model category like they do with C4S at Porsche. I'm afraid though they aren't gonna bother after some time using the same "torque is too much" logic.

What makes a good racing car is a lightweight chassis and drivetrain which M has been tradionally strong in the segment. Looks like they are trying to throw that away for boy racers who races on street to the next stoplight, which is sad.
M2
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      09-09-2017, 07:04 AM   #120
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M2
So they are going to make it light and give it a good engine? I thought that was just happening for the special edition CS.
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      09-09-2017, 07:40 AM   #121
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I'm going to go out on a limb and predict something a bit different. The x-drive mullet. Electric in the front, party in the back...
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      09-09-2017, 11:31 AM   #122
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I'm going to go out on a limb and predict something a bit different. The x-drive mullet. Electric in the front, party in the back...
I'm an 80s fan

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      09-09-2017, 11:38 AM   #123
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M2
If there was a more meaningful weight savings (e.g. 3000lbcar) and s55 that would be interesting as a toy

But if the choice is between current m2 (n55, 3500lb) and a 3900lb awd m3, I'll shed a tear for the loss of the "old" Bmw m and then get an x3m
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      09-09-2017, 01:29 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
M2
What is possibly the most engaging car in BMW is held back by heavier weight than M4 and a not-real-M engine plus other material carbon fiber parts like roof, driveshaft (soon to be taken out by eco friendly hippies sadly). M2 CS probably is in M4 price range, which most people would just say "I'm gonna go buy M4" due to said factors.

Well you also have to consider that BMW's reason for brining Frank van Meel who worked previously at Audi Quattro probably is to implement xDrive eventually on all M cars. I'm feeling M is becoming more GTR-like in that sense (FR based AWD).
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      09-09-2017, 04:52 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
So they are going to make it light and give it a good engine? I thought that was just happening for the special edition CS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
If there was a more meaningful weight savings (e.g. 3000lbcar) and s55 that would be interesting as a toy
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
M2 CS probably is in M4 price range, which most people would just say "I'm gonna go buy M4" due to said factors.
My thought is the M2 CS will be the light and looney track special, the M2 will be the more track oriented dual-duty, and the M3/4 will be the GT with AWD, ZF transmission, etc, with the M5 being the autobahn rocket.

In short, we should all get used to the M3/4 being a GT car and stop with "m has lost their way" stuff while watching M ship record numbers of cars and release new models. M's "way" is what the bulk of dual-duty buyers want, not what the trackrat niche wants.

Quote:
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I'm an 80s fan

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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 09-09-2017 at 11:59 PM..
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      09-09-2017, 06:18 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post

In short, we should all get used to the M3/4 being a GT car and stop with "m has lost their way" stuff while watching M ship record numbers of cars and release new models. M's "way" is what the bulk of duel-duty buyers want, not what the trackrat niche wants.
And BMW is now trying to nullify the very reason that made M3/M4 ship record number of cars. Who wants a 4000 lbs M4?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
My thought is the M2 CS will be the light and looney track special, the M2 will be the more track oriented duel-duty, and the M3/4 will be the GT with AWD, ZF transmission, etc, with the M5 being the autobahn rocket
Idea of the M car is wolf in sheep's clothing, not the other way around. Drop the special edition bs, give us a good chassis, tranny and engine and we the track guys will do the rest.
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      09-09-2017, 07:43 PM   #127
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I have 2 cars right now. A M2 for fun and also a 335i xDrive. I can't get rid of the xDrive car due to the winter driving requirement. I would love to consolidate to one M3 with M xDrive. This would be a dream for enthusiasts who want to drive their M cars year round in a northern climate. As long as the front wheel drive can be disabled as it can in the new M5, I think this would be a dream come true in the next gen M3/M4.
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      09-09-2017, 07:54 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsidianX View Post
I have 2 cars right now. A M2 for fun and also a 335i xDrive. I can't get rid of the xDrive car due to the winter driving requirement. I would love to consolidate to one M3 with M xDrive. This would be a dream for enthusiasts who want to drive their M cars year round in a northern climate. As long as the front wheel drive can be disabled as it can in the new M5, I think this would be a dream come true in the next gen M3/M4.
Plenty of people drive their RWD M cars in northern climates with Winter tires. I'm about to do just that this winter.
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      09-09-2017, 07:59 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsidianX View Post
I have 2 cars right now. A M2 for fun and also a 335i xDrive. I can't get rid of the xDrive car due to the winter driving requirement. I would love to consolidate to one M3 with M xDrive. This would be a dream for enthusiasts who want to drive their M cars year round in a northern climate. As long as the front wheel drive can be disabled as it can in the new M5, I think this would be a dream come true in the next gen M3/M4.
Plenty of people drive their RWD M cars in northern climates with Winter tires. I'm about to do just that this winter.
The xDrive car drives like a snowmobile through anything icy or snow covered. I'm personally not willing to pass on that traction and stability and drive the M2 alone even with snow tires. Maybe I am alone, but I don't think so.
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      09-09-2017, 08:04 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsidianX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsidianX View Post
I have 2 cars right now. A M2 for fun and also a 335i xDrive. I can't get rid of the xDrive car due to the winter driving requirement. I would love to consolidate to one M3 with M xDrive. This would be a dream for enthusiasts who want to drive their M cars year round in a northern climate. As long as the front wheel drive can be disabled as it can in the new M5, I think this would be a dream come true in the next gen M3/M4.
Plenty of people drive their RWD M cars in northern climates with Winter tires. I'm about to do just that this winter.
The xDrive car drives like a snowmobile through anything icy or snow covered. I'm personally not willing to pass on that traction and stability and drive the M2 alone even with snow tires. Maybe I am alone, but I don't think so.
Different strokes as they say. Tires are more important then anything including AWD.
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      09-09-2017, 08:23 PM   #131
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The xDrive car drives like a snowmobile through anything icy or snow covered. I'm personally not willing to pass on that traction and stability and drive the M2 alone even with snow tires. Maybe I am alone, but I don't think so.
I know the feeling: I used to have a tuned B6 S4 with nokian hakkas; that thing was a snow monster. Once they shut down minneapolis for a horrible storm and my wife was stuck downtown (she admitted it was dumb to stay) - i drove through unplowed roads for a 40 mile round trip in 1-2 feet of snow. Snow plows would drive across the roads I was on and I would punch it and blast through both berms rrrrRRRRROOOOORRRRR BOOM-BOOM!. Did that for 2-1/2 hours and burned 1/2 tank of gas and a full tank of windshield wiper fluid ... with the V8 roaring the whole time. It was un-fucking-real.

And, on the return trip, it was the one time my wife never said a word about my insane driving. She just read a book and let out an occasional scream.

fuck you snow.
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      09-09-2017, 08:58 PM   #132
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsidianX View Post
The xDrive car drives like a snowmobile through anything icy or snow covered. I'm personally not willing to pass on that traction and stability and drive the M2 alone even with snow tires. Maybe I am alone, but I don't think so.
I know the feeling: I used to have a tuned B6 S4 with nokian hakkas; that thing was a snow monster. Once they shut down minneapolis for a horrible storm and my wife was stuck downtown (she admitted it was dumb to stay) - i drove through unplowed roads for a 40 mile round trip in 1-2 feet of snow. Snow plows would drive across the roads I was on and I would punch it and blast through both berms rrrrRRRRROOOOORRRRR BOOM-BOOM!. Did that for 2-1/2 hours and burned 1/2 tank of gas and a full tank of windshield wiper fluid ... with the V8 roaring the whole time. It was un-fucking-real.

And, on the return trip, it was the one time my wife never said a word about my insane driving. She just read a book and let out an occasional scream.

fuck you snow.
Fuck you snow brother.
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