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View Poll Results: AWD?
Yes, AWD M3/M4 like the F90 M5 198 63.26%
No, keep it RWD 76 24.28%
Either way is cool with me 39 12.46%
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      05-19-2017, 12:07 AM   #1
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BMW "M xDrive" Coming to the next generation M3 / M4?

All wheel drive that you can shut off coming to the M5, so I wonder how long until it's an option or mandatory on the M3/4? Especially given Van Meel is the former Audi RS head.
“The core component of M xDrive is a central intelligence unit with M-specific software delivering integrated control of longitudinal and lateral dynamics. The new drivetrain technology – making its debut on the new BMW M5 – therefore combines all of the agility and precision of standard rear-wheel drive with the supreme poise and traction of the all-wheel-drive system,” explains Frank van Meel, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW M GmbH.

The driver can choose from five different configurations based on combinations of the DSC modes (DSC on, MDM, DSC off) and M xDrive modes (4WD, 4WD Sport, 2WD).

“If we continue the power increases in the future – especially regarding torque and also horsepower – then probably the next generation M5 and M6 will have so much torque and power that we need to think about those solutions,” says Van Meel.


More here.
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      05-19-2017, 12:18 AM   #2
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Maybe the next gen M3/4. It would be interesting.
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      05-19-2017, 01:07 AM   #3
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I think it will be here next gen and the M2 will remain the last RWD only M car.
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      05-19-2017, 08:26 AM   #4
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Sounds like a great technology on paper..
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      05-19-2017, 08:30 AM   #5
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I hope it is. Assuming it works as planned and doesn't add more than a couple of hundred pounds, it'll be more beneficial than the weight savings for everyday driving.
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      05-19-2017, 08:55 AM   #6
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Not next gen but the one after it.
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      05-19-2017, 09:04 AM   #7
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There is only so much HP that can be put down on pavement. AWD is inevitable, especially with the movement towards autonomous vehicles and safety.
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      05-19-2017, 09:53 AM   #8
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Although it may not appear as such to the consumer, evolutionary changes like this typically come in no small part as responses to inside information about what competitors are doing. BMW knew years ago that Mercedes would introduce a new AWD system with the W213/S213 E63. As such, they set out to design a car that would compete with what its expected performance and driving dynamics would be. No doubt that they arrived at the conclusion that they had to up the ante and devise a similar system or face a loss in sales to their fiercest competitor.

You could cite Audi and their AWD system too, but Audi has had an AWD-first philosophy from the beginning. They have been able to better compete with BMW M and Mercedes-AMG in recent years, but it has largely been an uphill battle. They have traditionally not been a threat to the two leaders in the same way the two leaders have been a threat to each other.

All of that is to say that the M3/M4 and C63 will both move to AWD when it becomes necessary. Since AMG typically goes for big power (which, in a turbocharged world, brings big torque too), they will probably make the first move. However, don't assume this will happen next generation. We can't be certain that AMG will continue with the M177 V8. The real possibility exists for a move back to six cylinders - not seen in a *proper* AMG model (not today's *43 nonsense) since the C32. The engine would be a specifically developed derivative of the new Mercedes M256 inline 6 cylinder set to debut next year in the new Mercedes-AMG E50 coupe and convertible. Although those two cars will be of the AMG-lite variety and make no more than 450hp, in a neo-C32 (or more perhaps more appropriately, C55) the engine would no doubt crest 500hp. In fact, it's a pretty good bet that it would best today's C63 S output, although even that would not necessarily be the case. Recall that the C32 debuted with less power than its C55 predecessor, so there is precedent to see a drop in output. In any case, a 3L engine (the new I6) making 500hp+ will bring less torque to the table than a 4L engine (the existing V8) with similar power. So the need for AWD may very well be mitigated. Keep in mind the possibility of Mercedes moving to the I6 for the next generation Mercedes-AMG "C55" is entirely my speculation, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

Anyway, at these output levels, the E63 was still available only with RWD. The AWD option (which, BTW, was traditional 4Matic, not the new 2WD/4WD type) wasn't added until later when the switch from the 6.2L M156 to the 5.5L M157 turbo caused a sharp rise in peak torque. So, I think the C63 (or whatever it may be called) will similarly stick with RWD for now. And if that happens, BMW will absolutely not see any need to go AWD. In fact, BMW will have even more incentive to stick with RWD and play the weight game that they have been beating the competion at for generations and would naturally love to continue to do.

That's my take.
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      05-19-2017, 10:04 AM   #9
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Not that i would be totally against the idea, but I do not really think the M3/4 at this stage needs awd HP wise yet. I know it is not an apples to apples comparison but look at the ZL1 and Zo6, as well as GT3. The Porsche is at 500 HP and the Chevys 650 hp and they are still plenty quick and composed. Yes those options are coupes with more tire and aero than the BMW's, but I do not think the next M3/4 will exceed 500 HP so rwd makes sense for now.

That said I have been surprised by BMW before so who knows.
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      05-19-2017, 02:08 PM   #10
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To be fair the xdrive in my msport really does put the power down well even in the wet.
As long as you can turn it off and make it rwd then best of both worlds.

Extra weight thought ugh, better fire up the carbon fiber factory.
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      05-19-2017, 04:16 PM   #11
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How much weight will this add, and will the base M3/4 increase in price?
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      05-19-2017, 04:46 PM   #12
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One huge benefit will the drop in 0-60 time, which will help BMW against the competition in the stats department.
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      05-19-2017, 07:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
In fact, BMW will have even more incentive to stick with RWD and play the weight game that they have been beating the competion at for generations and would naturally love to continue to do.

That's my take.
Seems to me it's a market growth question:

Rather than compete for market share with AMG (which they already do), can they grow total sales through net new offerings (awd) by creating a new customer segment without cannibalizing or losing existing sales?

If M xDrive is well reviewed then I think their equation changes and they pop it into the next gen M4 with the M2 as their track rat car.

If people hate it in the M5, then they stick with rwd and settle for market share growth.

Feels even money to me right now, especially given the M5 rollout.
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      05-19-2017, 08:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
How much weight will this add, and will the base M3/4 increase in price?
Well the m5 dropped weight with it... so I'd expect it not to cause the next gen M3/m4 to increase in weight anyway ( if they add it ).
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      05-19-2017, 08:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guarnibl
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
How much weight will this add, and will the base M3/4 increase in price?
Well the m5 dropped weight with it... so I'd expect it not to cause the next gen M3/m4 to increase in weight anyway ( if they add it ).
+1. But they will also increase the base price too.
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      05-19-2017, 08:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
How much weight will this add, and will the base M3/4 increase in price?
About 140 lbs.
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      05-19-2017, 09:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssuene93
Quote:
Originally Posted by guarnibl
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
How much weight will this add, and will the base M3/4 increase in price?
Well the m5 dropped weight with it... so I'd expect it not to cause the next gen M3/m4 to increase in weight anyway ( if they add it ).
+1. But they will also increase the base price too.
Thats pretty much inevitable though given it won't be here for 3-4 years.
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      05-19-2017, 10:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssuene93 View Post
+1. But they will also increase the base price too.
True. An increase in base price when new tech is added to something, is almost always guaranteed. Have to pay the engineers/designers for coming up with the new tech/ideas.
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      05-19-2017, 10:01 PM   #19
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Look the 140lb penalty could easily be offset with CFRP and other materials. Anyone who has driven a even mildly tuned F8X car understands how uch traction is limited in 1-3rd gears with full throttle even with 295+ rears. If the 4wd would not come with a weight penalty and be 100% variable system that was performance based I would be in favor of this.
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      05-19-2017, 10:39 PM   #20
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AWD + Hybrid (rumor discussed in an older thread) in the next generation M3/4 is a lot of extra weight to try and offset with carbon fiber.
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      05-19-2017, 10:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSups6 View Post
To be fair the xdrive in my msport really does put the power down well even in the wet.
As long as you can turn it off and make it rwd then best of both worlds.

Extra weight thought ugh, better fire up the carbon fiber factory.
>>>
I completely agree. This would be a great add but definitely should have the option to turn on/off.
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      05-21-2017, 11:27 AM   #22
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I think the fate of the next gen M3/M4 is already have been decided, since they probably started working on it not much after they signed off the F8x.

I don't think we would see major changes like we saw from E9x to F8x but I expect most of the tech in the M5 would come over. I personally would welcome optional AWD with ZF8 speed. Don't see many AWD cars in this segment, and B9 RS4 is still some time away from being released for sale.

Would be interesting to see if BMW can match or beat RS4 in its own game that it started many decades ago
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