[nemex12]

loved it (the video). I am a BMW owner and would consider buying a M3 but this big tooth face won´t make it for me. It is just aestetically plain ugly

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The ZCP was the internal code that began with the E46 M3's competition package back in '05. It has just carried on as part of the lingo despite whether or not that's what BMW still internally uses to identify the new competition models.

BMW option codes often start with a Z. Hence the Competition Package option was coded ZCP.

Starting with the 2019 M2, I believe, BMW started to offer distinct Competition models - more than just options ticked on a given model - 2019+ M2 Competition, 2021+ M3 Competition, M8 Competition. I haven’t heard anyone but enthusiasts refer to these models as the “M2 ZCP” or “M3 ZCP” when “M2C” or “M3C” will do but you all could be starting a new trend.

In short, if we want to be specific about the nomenclature, using “Mx ZCP” or “MxC” depends on whether BMW positioned it as an option or a model for that particular model and chassis/generation/year. It’s a 2018 M3 ZCP but it’s a 2021 M3C.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

BMW option codes often start with a Z. Hence the Competition Package option was coded ZCP.

Starting with the 2019 M2, I believe, BMW started to offer distinct Competition models - more than just options ticked on a given model - 2019+ M2 Competition, 2021+ M3 Competition, M8 Competition. I haven’t heard anyone but enthusiasts refer to these models as the “M2 ZCP” or “M3 ZCP” when “M2C” or “M3C” will do but you all could be starting a new trend.

In short, if we want to be specific about the nomenclature, using “Mx ZCP” or “MxC” depends on whether BMW positioned it as an option or a model for that particular model and chassis/generation/year. It’s a 2018 M3 ZCP but it’s a 2021 M3C.

Mr. M

Thank you for the information.

I suspected prior models were optioned with Competition Packages (ZCP) and more recently equipped standard and designated Competition models. . . which is what I believe you stated.

///AVM

[MKParris]

The thing I hate about auto when driving fast or on the track, is trying to remember which gear I am in. With stick, I dont have to look at anything, and can go from the gear I am in, to the gear I want to be in with a flick of the wrist.

[NinjaBum]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Speaking of the GT3….

…I feel about it the way some feel about the G8X. I hate the wing. I hate the front bumper. I hate the hood. The rear of the car would looking profoundly better with just the duckbill trunk spoiler. I feel like Porsche ruined the car for me. It is not an attractive car to me like the prior GT3 is/was. That said, I would still buy it given the financial opportunity because I can deal with what I don't like to harness the things I do like. I get your argument(s) loud and clear.

I'm the opposite, I think the 992 makes the 991 look old when the two are sitting next to each other and I really dig everything you listed as hate item haha. We will see how the lists play out. Prolly take a few years to get through the VIPs and folks ahead of me but Ima savin' for it. I'm probably going to have to put 60 or 70k down for my wife to stomach the payments though methinks.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by NinjaBum

I'm the opposite, I think the 992 makes the 991 look old when the two are sitting next to each other and I really dig everything you listed as hate item haha. We will see how the lists play out. Prolly take a few years to get through the VIPs and folks ahead of me but Ima savin' for it. I'm probably going to have to put 60 or 70k down for my wife to stomach the payments though methinks.

Lol! I agree with the way the 992 makes the 991 look outdated (..especially when it comes to the non-GT models). I'm just mad at that GT wing/hood/bumper. Lol! Lucky duck though to be in any kind of position to purchase a GT3. I'll get there eventually. Acquiring this C2S was difficult enough.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by 2manycars

Hi, guys, Jason here.

Also, I really preferred the auto. Which is something I hate to admit - but that manual?

Look, if you want a manual, you want a manual. So, at least it's there. But, much like the E60 M5, it feels like BMW AG phoned it in just to please BMW NA. :/

Great video Jason!

I do think with months or years of ownership the manual will always win, even a flawed manual. In a short amount of time an auto can seem like the better choice....Until it gets boring and all novelty wears off. The manual can be modified pretty easily to driver specs which adds to the enjoyment and ‘over time’ learning the flaws of the manual can add a little character to the car. JMVHO.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

Great video Jason!

I do think with months or years of ownership the manual will always win, even a flawed manual. In a short amount of time an auto can seem like the better choice....Until it gets boring and all novelty wears off. The manual can be modified pretty easily to driver specs which adds to the enjoyment and 'over time' learning the flaws of the manual can add a little character to the car. JMVHO.

…add to that, the sensory/tactile engagement and the skillset necessary to drive a manual well.


The perfect analogy is….

…an auto/DCT is to an enthusiast what a vibrator is to a woman. A vibrator will get a woman off 100% of the time with supreme efficiency, but nothing is like a man and his penis, even if she doesn't get off every time. More work and skill is required to be efficient with a penis. The vibrator, however efficient, just becomes numb and boring. Auto/DCT's are vibrators.

[adc]

Very entertaining video, and lesson into the M3 history if you weren’t familiar with it. Loved it.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I understand what you’re saying. Please understand I’ve come to my conclusions on who and why certain people hate this grille from doing a bunch of research this past many months. It has been an interesting phenomenon to watch. As I said before I just bought my first BMW a year ago and that was a 2020 X3 Xdrive for my wife. I had a 2016 C450 tuned to 500Hp prior to my G80 purchase. I thought about trying out BMW and my dealer showed me this new G80 coming out. So of course I did what any normal person does in this day and age I hit my iPad and started doing tons of research on it. And holy cow! LOL. First off before I did any research my initial thoughts were it was the best looking BMW I’ve ever seen. I thought every angle especially the front looked extremely aggressive and powerful. Then I hit the YouTube video comment sections and forums and I witnessed temper tantrum‘s that rivaled anything I ever saw from my children’s kindergarten days. You would have thought BMW ended the M program all together or at the very least got rid of combustion engines or something serious like that. But one thing I noticed from the vast majority of G80 grille haters was it was almost always coming from previous generation M3 owners especially the F80. Don’t get me wrong there are others that I pretty much figured were people that were just on the videos and could never afford the car anyway and just chimed in on the side of the previous M3 generation owners to fit in. The interesting part is the haters of this grille somehow figure themselves to be in the majority but if you look deep into it that’s not true at all in fact it’s just the opposite. You will notice if you look into it that most people from the outside I think the car looks awesome especially the front end. As I stated in another post if you ask people that gravitate towards other brands of vehicles what they think of it they will all tell you it looks great. Does anyone on this forum really think that BMW would release a car without doing tons of marketing research prior to the launch? These guys are not in the business of losing money. Don’t you think they knew in advance a good chunk of previous generation M3 owners were going to throw a fit? Of course they did. But their research and marketing told them there would be plenty of people like me that would come and buy the car and they would sell more of this generation than they ever did in the previous generations and they would also bring new people into BMW that hadn’t been before. It was genius. So here are my predictions. These F80 owners quietly over the next few years either get over it and buy one or move on to some other bad ass, fast sports car from a different brand. But the sales of this new G80/82 will continue to increase even through the very near future economic crash we are going to have. After all this will probably be the last fully combustion nonhybrid M3.

Or, this being the internet, you could be completely wrong. Hope that crossed your mind too.

Think about it this way. What would have BMW lost, if they made the car still aggressive but without any controversial styling elements? They would have gotten the old clientele, as well as the new one. Have the cake and eat it too.

They managed to do that in the past you know…

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by adc

Or, this being the internet, you could be completely wrong. Hope that crossed your mind too.

Think about it this way. What would have BMW lost, if they made the car still aggressive but without any controversial styling elements? They would have gotten the old clientele, as well as the new one. Have the cake and eat it too.

They managed to do that in the past you know…

Ehhhh it's hard to qualify that statement. That's just as much an assumption based on a bias as anything else.

[heavyD^2]

I'm not sure another M3/M4 that looked similar to the F8x or current M5 was going to bring a lot of new buyers into dealerships. I like the M5 but it's pretty low key in the styling department and I think the F8x is only beautiful to BMW fans as it doesn't really stand out in a crowd.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I'm not sure another M3/M4 that looked similar to the F8x or current M5 was going to bring a lot of new buyers into dealerships. I like the M5 but it's pretty low key in the styling department and I think the F8x is only beautiful to BMW fans as it doesn't really stand out in a crowd.

Agreed! More of the same isn't necessarily what BMW needed.

[golovko]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I'm not sure another M3/M4 that looked similar to the F8x or current M5 was going to bring a lot of new buyers into dealerships. I like the M5 but it's pretty low key in the styling department and I think the F8x is only beautiful to BMW fans as it doesn't really stand out in a crowd.

This is one reason why I've never liked the Audi S/RS models because I felt like they do not stand out enough in the visuals. Very easy to miss that its an S or RS without seeing the badge or the quad exhaust tips.

M3/4, to me anyway, stands out a lot more from the base non-M series with the F8X which is what first attracted me to get one. With the G80, its not just standing out from the base model but also stands out as a "special" car which I love that about it.

[0Camus0]

Originally Posted by PeterY

How did the F80 not succeed at anything? haha, it was easily the best car in its class!

That's why I don't take any car show seriously, they're just for entertainment purpose.

The presenters always make blanket statements like that. They don't own the cars, they haven't lived with them for a few years. They're providing their opinion based on a 4hr test drive!

In general this Camisa guy just want heat in the comment section and likes. I don't trust his judgement, he said that the BMW/Toyota Supra is not a sports car... I can understand that you don't like the car or something, but IT IS a sports car by definition. Anyway, the production and quality is amazing, it's a shame.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 0Camus0

In general this Camisa guy just want heat in the comment section and likes. I don't trust his judgement, he said that the BMW/Toyota Supra is not a sports car... I can understand that you don't like the car or something, but IT IS a sports car by definition. Anyway, the production and quality is amazing, it's a shame.

Maybe it's his opinion. I've seen varying opinions about what constitutes a sports car and what doesn't. That's not enough to discount the merits of the video nor his opinion of the G8X. Not everybody considers a Z4 a sports car, so I can see why/how that could apply to the Zupra as well. I think both are sporty cars, but I don't know that I would rank them as sports cars in my book either.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I'm not sure another M3/M4 that looked similar to the F8x or current M5 was going to bring a lot of new buyers into dealerships. I like the M5 but it's pretty low key in the styling department and I think the F8x is only beautiful to BMW fans as it doesn't really stand out in a crowd.

heavyD^2

I caught up with a F82 today on the road and we 'played' a little bit for the few miles we shared on the roadway. . . all I can say is that the F82 remains a fucking beautiful car with amazing road presence.

WAYYYYYY better than my G80C . . . and the G82 is just a head-scratcher to me. Cannot believe BMW went from the F82 to the G82. Really a shame.

Anyway, the F82 is just an amazing creature on the roadways. Do I feel that way because I am an enthusiast? I guess that is possible.

///AVM

[mmckenzie]

Originally Posted by golovko

This is one reason why I've never liked the Audi S/RS models because I felt like they do not stand out enough in the visuals. Very easy to miss that its an S or RS without seeing the badge or the quad exhaust tips.

M3/4, to me anyway, stands out a lot more from the base non-M series with the F8X which is what first attracted me to get one. With the G80, its not just standing out from the base model but also stands out as a "special" car which I love that about it.

The same reason I bought mine over the RS5 which I was also considering.

Really interested in seeing the sales figure on G8X thus far. Would be very surprised if it's lower than F8X when it first came out.

I think BMW knew very well the new grills were polarizing and would create publicity, and that's exactly what they wanted. “There’s no such thing as bad publicity.”

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

heavyD^2

I caught up with a F82 today on the road and we 'played' a little bit for the few miles we shared on the roadway. . . all I can say is that the F82 remains a fucking beautiful car with amazing road presence.

WAYYYYYY better than my G80C . . . and the G82 is just a head-scratcher to me. Cannot believe BMW went from the F82 to the G82. Really a shame.

Anyway, the F82 is just an amazing creature on the roadways. Do I feel that way because I am an enthusiast? I guess that is possible.

///AVM

For me it depends on color, wheels, etc…..but it's like that with every BMW to me. Sometimes I see an F8X, for example, that does nothing for me and other times I'm cranking my neck as one passes.

[0Camus0]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Maybe it's his opinion. I've seen varying opinions about what constitutes a sports car and what doesn't. That's not enough to discount the merits of the video nor his opinion of the G8X. Not everybody considers a Z4 a sports car, so I can see why/how that could apply to the Zupra as well. I think both are sporty cars, but I don't know that I would rank them as sports cars in my book either.

That's a good conversation and I agree that it could be subjective too, but within range. For me, to be a "real" sports car needs to:

• Be a dedicated platform.
• Have 2 seats or 2+2 in some cases.
• Light and nimble.
• RWD.
• Short wheel base.
• Focused on driving (not luxury).

Maybe I won't get many friends here, but I consider that the Mazda MX5 is truly a sports car, whereas my G82 M4 is just Sporty or GT, but not a true sports car. Both, the M3 and M4 are not dedicated platforms, they are built on top of the 3 and 4 series, they are not exactly light, and lean towards luxury more than pure driving.

I don't know, for instance, the Z4M Coupe/Roadster, for me, was the real and best M sports car ever, S54, manual, 2 seats and a very rigid chassis. The Supra is the new iteration of that car.

The M2C on the other side, it is a sports car, shorter wheel base, focused in the driving, etc. Just my opinion, the production of the video is just amazing, to the level of Top Gear, very informative as well, I don't take the merit away from the video in any way.

[mirob]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

For me it depends on color, wheels, etc…..but it's like that with every BMW to me. Sometimes I see an F8X, for example, that does nothing for me and other times I'm cranking my neck as one passes.

This.

Wheels make these cars, IMHO. F80/2 on the stock 18" wheels looks horrendous to me. Same with the G80/2 and the winter wheel/tire setup.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Ehhhh it's hard to qualify that statement. That's just as much an assumption based on a bias as anything else.

Not really brother. It’s just what I have observed. Since I’ve been hanging out here the past couple of weeks it also seems to ring true here as well.