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      04-24-2021, 07:26 PM   #67
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At 5:55 I see the clear result. I'm positive now we're being trolled by a world-class internet hero now.
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      04-24-2021, 07:34 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
You mean as the F8X had to brake before the end of the runway? Notwithstanding, care to explain what happened before and after that particular race? Or are you going to just gloss over that...

Now I'm convinced you're completely in denial. The "troll" card won't help you here either I'm afraid. Grow up.
Thanks.
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      04-25-2021, 04:19 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
Now you can see it too!
There is plausible indication that the F80 was likely stage 1 (not to mention it is not actually a CP as claimed by carwow), some info over at: https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=16 and also https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=34

I'd absolutely expect a F80 stage 1 take a G80.

It would be very embarrassing for BMW if the predecessor would be quicker over a quarter mile compared to its successor, so based on that point alone for me it is a no brainer that the drag race conducted in the video you reference is not actually stock v stock (as claimed in the video) and therefore not a reliable means compare how well (or not) the new G8X performs.

EDIT: As for the first rolling start test, Matt mentions he is in Comfort mode in the M440i (so I imagine it would be same for the M4's, ergo transmission in D). Yeah no surprise the DCT is going to be quicker with the kickdown and getting that power down.

Disclaimer: I have a G80 on order.
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      04-25-2021, 08:11 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
The G8X is 0.1s faster in the quarter, so I guess you can say, it is faster. Though, the F8X is has a notoriously poor launch control system. So make of that what you will.
No, the F82 is definitely faster!
Every test done so far is clearly showing that the F8X is faster than the G8X.

And as you say, F8X does have a notoriously poor launch control system, and if that green F82 M4 had better launch it would probably be faster than G82 M4. My guess, around 11,8 sec for the F82.

It is interesting that all F8X's CarWoW have tested so far were going between 12,4 and 12,7 sec 1/4 mile, and the best time so far was 12,2 sec for the M3CS on a dry surface with sticky tires.
But this green M4 wasn't so lucky, it did only 12 sec flat on a damp surface!

Quote:
We work closely with Carwow and I happen to know the F8X M4 personally, and can confirm that it only has the PCW exhaust mod, and no power mods. Having said that, when we've dyno'd the stock S55s they are almost never at the quoted power level (anything between 12-15% above stock isn't unusual). So using that scale, I wouldn't be surprised if this car is running closer to 500bhp, in stock guise.
Since you know that particular F82 M4, can you tell us, is that car the base M4, or the M4 Competition?
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      04-25-2021, 09:02 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
I am happy to have a civilised debate, but if you're going to be both ignorant and sarcastic then I will not entertain man-babies who cannot control their impulses.
Oh, the irony...

Quote:
But then again, this is all irrelevant as you will most certainly have the last laugh if you happen to bump in to a F8X whilst driving your brand new G8X M3/4, as the driver of the F8X will have to endure barfing in their own mouth when your front grille consumes their rear view mirror as they pull away and disappear in to the horizon.
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      04-25-2021, 09:04 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
I am happy to have a civilised debate, but if you're going to be both ignorant and sarcastic then I will not entertain man-babies who cannot control their impulses.
Sorry, but I'm just reflecting your way of posting, because claiming that the F82 M4 is faster is ridiculous in the light of many other instrumented testing thus far, and just look at the back to back test driving Evolve guys did with Becky Evans, and tell me how F8X driver is going to laugh looking at the G8X driver in its rear view mirror and disappearing in to the horizon?!
But jokes aside, can you tell us is that green M4 base car or M4 Competition?

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      04-25-2021, 11:19 AM   #73
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Not sure why you’d respond to someone who posted something like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
If out and out performance is your theme, the G8X is not for you. However, if you want a relaxing GT car, then the G8X will be right up your alley, but if that's what you want, a manual gearbox option is a really baffling offering. It's almost as though BMW wasn't sure whether this is a sports car (like the F8X) or a GT car...
After putting 1xx,xxx miles on S55 cars and over 3,000 on my G82 6MT, I can confidently say that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on these forums. Back in the day, there was magazine racing; now, we’ve got people YouTube racing and cherry picking invalid examples to explain away what is dead obvious once you get behind the wheel.

The look of the car may be controversial, but the drive isn’t. The G8x drives and performs better than the F8x in practically every way. It steers better, handles better, has more grip, inspires more confidence at the limit, and is faster in a straight line by a meaningful margin.

Got someone talking about sports cars, then makes a big deal about which car has the faster “kickdown”. That’s something one might care about in your parents’ old Lexus SC430. These cars have paddles, use them.
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      04-25-2021, 02:20 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave12285 View Post
Since this thread has a lot of back and forth on the transmissions, I'll ask Evolve and the others here. My CS is the only DCT car I've owned, although I've driven a couple of other dual clutch examples, Porsche and Audi. Before that, all manual transmissions. I drive the CS exclusively in manual mode, regardless of what I'm doing or where I'm going. I feel like many of the comments relating to the DCT vs the ZF are presuming they're both in auto mode. Being that I enjoy driving exclusively in manual mode, would I be disappointed enough in the ZF to just get the manual instead? I never thought I'd like a DCT over a manual, and I'm still not sure I do, but man do I really enjoy the implementation in CS. So sharp and crisp.
You will be massively disappointed.
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      04-25-2021, 09:06 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulkychipmonk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
I am happy to have a civilised debate, but if you're going to be both ignorant and sarcastic then I will not entertain man-babies who cannot control their impulses.
Oh, the irony...

Quote:
But then again, this is all irrelevant as you will most certainly have the last laugh if you happen to bump in to a F8X whilst driving your brand new G8X M3/4, as the driver of the F8X will have to endure barfing in their own mouth when your front grille consumes their rear view mirror as they pull away and disappear in to the horizon.
I don't see the irony. Please educate us.
Pretty sure the irony is that you're claiming a moral high ground based on a lack of childish behavior and he quoted an example of your childish behavior?

Car and Driver's instrumented testing demonstrates a clear performance delta between the two cars. In fact, pick any source of instrumented testing and it will show you what you already know: the G80 is faster. If you're going to claim the F80 is better you should stick to stuff that can't be measured since that's the only way you won't embarrass yourself.

Also - since you know that green F80 so well: is it a competition model or a base?
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      04-25-2021, 10:13 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dialogical View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulkychipmonk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
I am happy to have a civilised debate, but if you're going to be both ignorant and sarcastic then I will not entertain man-babies who cannot control their impulses.
Oh, the irony...

Quote:
But then again, this is all irrelevant as you will most certainly have the last laugh if you happen to bump in to a F8X whilst driving your brand new G8X M3/4, as the driver of the F8X will have to endure barfing in their own mouth when your front grille consumes their rear view mirror as they pull away and disappear in to the horizon.
I don't see the irony. Please educate us.
Pretty sure the irony is that you're claiming a moral high ground based on a lack of childish behavior and he quoted an example of your childish behavior?

Car and Driver's instrumented testing demonstrates a clear performance delta between the two cars.

Also - since you know that green F80 so well: is it a competition model or a base?
There is literally no irony as alleged or at all. An untimely joke based on fact perhaps, but no more and certainly nothing personal. Especially considering the fact that the G8X cannot be mapped, yet.

As for your claim of the presence of empirical evidence, care to share actual links, instead of hashing a farrago of carefully selected trigger words together to sit and serve your narrative?

The featured M4 was originally a standard M4 which has been converted to a 'competition' (including DME software). Your point?

I also note and aver that your recent G8X order has naturally influenced your opinion. I do not own (nor desire to own) either, so I am far better placed to judge impartially, without the influence of your rose tinted glasses. With that said, congratulations and I hope you enjoy your new car.

Good day sir.
Oh please.

Good sir thou must close your thesaurus and endeavor to temper your tendencies towards sesquipedalian loquaciousness lest one misconstrue your fondness for the multisyllabic with true intelligence.

What's my point about the F82 being tuned? My point is we've gone from "it's a stock car" to "ok yeah it's tuned but it's not, like, a major tune." We're now admitting the test is based on a lie, we're just arguing degrees. At this point the entire test needs to be thrown out - which is a perfect segue to the next point.

You want references to objective tests? Ok. These are the instrumented testing results for the manual F82 M4, as compared to the instrumented test results for the manual G80 M3. Keep in mind - this is in additional to the numerous pieces of anecodal evidence that suggests the G80 is a quicker, more engaging car to drive.

What do we see? The G80:
1. Is faster to 60
2. Is quicker through the 1/4 mile
3. Traps higher in the quarter mile
4. Holds more G's on the skidpad
5. Stops faster

Not only is the G80 faster, but it stops quicker and turns better as well!

Oh but you say those are only straight line measurements. How about on the track? Well Autobild did their supertest recently - the G80 went around the Sachsenring .4 seconds faster than the F82 GTS. You can find the discussion here: https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1815648

Very interested to hear how you try and discount this, seeing as you're the proud owner of an S55 engine (and a very powerful set of rose colored glasses).
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      04-26-2021, 04:26 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
I'll just leave this here to finish the debate...

LOL I was looking for this video overhere but you already posted it.

Anyway guys, I'll stay on the sideline watching.

Both great cars etcetera!

And I need even more coffee.

P.S. I'd like to see your super powerful M2Comp in the M2C section if possible!


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      04-26-2021, 07:06 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
Tell me about it.

For clarity, you posted links to subjective tests carried out by a team of paid/sponsored individuals. Clearly distinguishable from the requested empirical evidence.

How about your take on the power to weight point? Or are you just going to dismiss gravity and physics?
Ok well wait a second.

You need to define an objective/instrumented test for me, because I'm beginning to suspect that there isn't a test on the planet that meets your criteria.

Edit: regarding power to weight. Motortrend has the F80 weighing 100lbs less than the G80. I put the link at the bottom of this message.

So you're right - by some metrics the F80 does have better power to weight. For sake of argument, let's assume that it's so. That leads us into a different territory though, because if that differential made the G80 significantly worse, then it wouldn't be the objectively faster car in a line and around the circuit. So while yes, the F80 does have better power to weight, it doesn't appear to have an impact on the empirical results.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...ve-review/amp/
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      04-26-2021, 08:52 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
The, what feels like a, 5 minute lag when you hit the accelerator to when the car actually starts moving, is very uninspiring, and very un-sports car like. If I want lag, I'll jump into my 1800hp Supra or my 800hp M2C. I don't find lag particularly pleasing, especially when the result is so anticlimactic. Perhaps you can explain that away by claiming it's the new gearbox, or perhaps you'll claim it's the drop in compression (versus the S55), but the fact of the matter remains constant, IMO, I do not rate them very highly, no matter the excuse you want to use.
Points out that he can't stand lag, then proceeds to tell us that his cars have lag (in a very weak flex, mind you). Then tells us that if he wanted lag, he'd drive his own cars; however, now we know he doesn't want lag so does that mean he walks everywhere? Takes the bus?

This is an obvious attempt at trolling. My guess is, burner account from one of the banned members.
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      04-26-2021, 09:47 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
What a farrago of selective self serving dross.

I apologise if you had to refer to the dictionary due to your own deficiencies.

It would appear that you would prefer to continue embarrassing yourself because you would rather die defending/justifying your new purchase than to simply accept/acknowledge certain facts.

Where are the primary source "empirical evidence" references I asked for? I refuse to debate ignoramuses who discount credible data simply because it doesn't suit their agenda. Case and point, in the Carwow video, the G8X did not "stop faster" than the F8X now did it? But of course you will retort and claim that the F8X was "modified", though clearly running standard brakes.

Go on, entertain us all by explaining physics away...

F8X M4C power to weight ratio: 283.02 bhp/tonne
G8X M4C power to weight ratio: 278.67 bhp/tonne

*Weight references here: https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/09/23/b...82-vs-g80-g82/

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery, but please attempt to understand the meaning behind the words you choose to hash together in future.
Sorry to say, but if you believe that the F8X has better power-to-weight than the G8X, you are completely kidding yourself.
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      04-26-2021, 11:42 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
Do the maths.
I did. And to do them properly, you need to understand how official weight measuring standards have evolved in recent years.
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      04-26-2021, 12:10 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
...you need to understand how official weight measuring standards have evolved in recent years.
I do.
Based on your math and conclusions, you obviously don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
But please do elaborate for the rest of us. ����
Take real world weight figures from reliable sources, and it will become very clear.

As one example, 6MT M4 as tested by C&D:

F82: 425hp/3,556lb = 0.1195
G82: 473hp/3,709lb = 0.1275

In this example, the G82 has 6.7% better power-to-weight than the F82. Look up other real world comparisons and I doubt you'll find many that show the F8X having better power to weight.
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      04-26-2021, 12:14 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Reviews View Post
Do the maths.
For example, here are the tests done by the same respectable German magazine:

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...1&d=1617988664

https://www.autobild.de/artikel/bmw-...-10562489.html

They use the same standard for measuring the weight and performance, and regarding the weight, the old M4 was 1632 kg heavy, and the new one was 1695 kg!

So, they have come to conclusion that the old M4 is having 3,6 kg/ps and the new M4 is having 3,3 kg/ps!

And that is reflecting more than obvious on the acceleration numbers:

F82 M4 0-100 km/h in 4 sec / 0-200 km/h in 12,9 sec / 100-200 km/h in 8,9 sec

G82 M4 0-100 km/h in 3,6 sec / 0-200 km/h in 11,4 sec / 100-200 km/h in 7,8 sec

The difference is huge!
The track times are also showing significant superiority of the new model!

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/sachsenring

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/castle-combe

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/vairano-handling-course

The only question now is what are you going to come up with next, as an excuse?
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      04-26-2021, 12:48 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe View Post
Not sure why you’d respond to someone who posted something like this.
The first part was just for fun, because it is obvious that the guy is delusional, but the second part of my post is very interesting because he sad that he work closely with Carwow and that he happens to know the F8X M4 personally, and can confirm that it only has the PCW exhaust mod, and no power mods!

When asked if the green M4 was base or Competition model, he was refusing few times to give the answer, and I have ask the question because I know what ever he says it is going to be contradictory!

Finally, when other forum members insisted on the same question he said this:

"The featured M4 was originally a standard M4 which has been converted to a 'competition' (including DME software). Your point?"

So all his credibility went down the drain, along with the owner of the car and CarWoW team, depending on who was, and who wasn't aware that the car was tuned!

And the whole thing started because the performance of the green M4 was "little unusual"?!
Like I said, all F8X's CarWoW have tested so far were going between 12,4 and 12,7 sec 1/4 mile, and the best time so far was 12,2 sec for the M3CS on a dry surface with sticky tires.
The green M4 did 12 sec on a damp surface and was almost as quick as the G82 in the roll race!

Quote:
After putting 1xx,xxx miles on S55 cars and over 3,000 on my G82 6MT, I can confidently say that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on these forums. Back in the day, there was magazine racing; now, we’ve got people YouTube racing and cherry picking invalid examples to explain away what is dead obvious once you get behind the wheel.

The look of the car may be controversial, but the drive isn’t. The G8x drives and performs better than the F8x in practically every way. It steers better, handles better, has more grip, inspires more confidence at the limit, and is faster in a straight line by a meaningful margin.

Got someone talking about sports cars, then makes a big deal about which car has the faster “kickdown”. That’s something one might care about in your parents’ old Lexus SC430. These cars have paddles, use them.
I absolutely agree!
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      04-26-2021, 12:55 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dialogical View Post
What's my point about the F82 being tuned? My point is we've gone from "it's a stock car" to "ok yeah it's tuned but it's not, like, a major tune." We're now admitting the test is based on a lie, we're just arguing degrees. At this point the entire test needs to be thrown out - which is a perfect segue to the next point.
Exactly!
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      04-26-2021, 01:38 PM   #86
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And the winner is...the M440i xdrive !
Because it's the first to reach the next red light... ��
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      04-26-2021, 01:40 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Dzo View Post
And the winner is...the M440i xdrive !
Because it's the first to reach the next red light... ��
Yup. If you're just doing city driving (0-30-0) again and again and again, the 440 is fine.
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      04-26-2021, 01:50 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeregrineFalcon View Post
The first part was just for fun, because it is obvious that the guy is delusional, but the second part of my post is very interesting because he sad that he work closely with Carwow and that he happens to know the F8X M4 personally, and can confirm that it only has the PCW exhaust mod, and no power mods!

When asked if the green M4 was base or Competition model, he was refusing few times to give the answer, and I have ask the question because I know what ever he says it is going to be contradictory!

Finally, when other forum members insisted on the same question he said this:

"The featured M4 was originally a standard M4 which has been converted to a 'competition' (including DME software). Your point?"

So all his credibility went down the drain, along with the owner of the car and CarWoW team, depending on who was, and who wasn't aware that the car was tuned!

And the whole thing started because the performance of the green M4 was "little unusual"?!
Like I said, all F8X's CarWoW have tested so far were going between 12,4 and 12,7 sec 1/4 mile, and the best time so far was 12,2 sec for the M3CS on a dry surface with sticky tires.
The green M4 did 12 sec on a damp surface and was almost as quick as the G82 in the roll race!



I absolutely agree!
Seriously. We have video of the same base F82 car doing 12.5 sec on dry pavement with no exhaust "fireworks" 7 months ago and now doing 12.0 sec on wet pavement and exhaust "fireworks". Seems obvious that this latest test is compromised.
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