[CachacoF80]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Yes. Sales numbers. It’s really all the stats you need. Money is the ultimate stat.

Toyota Yaris and the like also sell very well. I guess from your standpoint that's an educated argument for many to switch bands. Granted, I'd take the Yaris GR front over the G8X.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

Toyota Yaris and the like also sell very well. I guess from your standpoint that's an educated argument for many to switch bands. Granted, I'd take the Yaris GR front over the G8X.

I mean, yes…..for those driving the equivalent of a Yaris or lower and who want(ed) a better quality car. If a car sells well within its targets, that's success……be it Yaris or Bentley.

[beammeupscottie]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The historical background was great. I learned something for sure.

Most reviews seem to focus on the presenter and their ego but that one was decent and focused majorly on the product.

[CachacoF80]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I mean, yes…..for those driving the equivalent of a Yaris or lower and who want(ed) a better quality car. If a car sells well within its targets, that's success……be it Yaris or Bentley.

Well of course, but there is a buyer base that loyalty should be regarded to. Yaris is a broad buyer base given the price point. Bentley went from wealthy "old money" to footballers. BMW M...you tell me.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

Well of course, but there is a buyer base that loyalty should be regarded to. Yaris is a broad buyer base given the price point. Bentley went from wealthy "old money" to footballers. BMW M...you tell me.

Every company evolves. If you had told me 10 years ago that Toyota would produce a performance Yaris, I would've laughed along with everybody else.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I have a question. Why would you ever buy anything you found even partly atrocious? . . . I’m still convinced that most of you long term diehard BMW M car fans are more upset that BMW changed it from the traditional grille rather then the ACTUAL looks of the new grille. . .

Patton250

As per my prior post, every consumer has different needs, interests, etc . . . and make purchase decisions accordingly.

Factors of my own are weighted around spirited daily driving (performance), with design architecture being less important. Not COMPLETELY unimportant, as I already stated the G82 exceeds my threshold when it comes to function over form.

So, yes, the G80C does not appeal to my visual senses, but I am more than satisfied with the vehicle because it excels at what is most important to ME . . . spirited daily driving performance.

For the record, I am not a long-term, ///M diehard . . . I was drawn to the BMW lineup for the first time by the F87C. The reason I despise the revised BMW front grilles is because they are unsightly as sin (to ME); not because they are different than the iconic BMW kidney grille.

You and dialogical seem to be coming from opposite ends of the spectrum. One cannot understand why anyone would focus on design architecture, while the other cannot understand how anyone could ignore it . . . does it matter, so long as the individual making the purchase is getting what they want?

///AVM

[CachacoF80]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Every company evolves. If you had told me 10 years ago that Toyota would produce a performance Yaris, I would've laughed along with everybody else.

I guess, let's just say some companies like Porsche evolve in a more cautious and subtle way and complement their main business lines (sports cars) with whatever sells (SUVs) to support such main lines. Some others, just like BMW M, transform rather than evolve and don't care that much about their buyer profile. It's an in your face approach.

Still, give me one G8X for free and I'll sell it right away and look elsewhere or invest the proceeds!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

I guess, let's just say some companies like Porsche evolve in a more cautious and subtle way and complement their main business lines (sports cars) with whatever sells (SUVs) to support such main lines. Some others, just like BMW M, transform rather than evolve and don't care that much about their buyer profile. It's an in your face approach.

Still, give me one G8X for free and I'll sell it right away and look elsewhere or invest the proceeds!

….maybe because their analysis suggests that's what their buyers wanted: a revolution. Porsche buyers tend to be more conservative.

[CachacoF80]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

….maybe because their analysis suggests that's what their buyers wanted: a revolution. Porsche buyers tend to be more conservative.

That's very true, although a Porsche still stands out from other cars. Even a base Cayman. I'm getting to that point in life where if I have to buy what for ME is considered blingy and tacky, I may have to save a bit and enter Porsche territory.

Today I saw somewhere in here some pics of the M Performance exhaust and other performance parts. OMG...I mean, I cannot be associated with that buyer profile!

[///AVM]

Sedan_Clan

With some 18K+ posts on this forum, I figure you must be able to answer this question . . .

I understand ZCP means 'Competition Package.' What I do not understand is the difference between a model designated 'Competition' and one referred to as ZCP?

I mean, there was the F87 M2 and the M2 Competition. Why not refer to it as the M2 ZCP?

Thank you in advance.

///AVM

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

That's very true, although a Porsche still stands out from other cars. Even a base Cayman. I'm getting to that point in life where if I have to buy what for ME is considered blingy and tacky, I may have to save a bit and enter Porsche territory.

Today I saw somewhere in here some pics of the M Performance exhaust and other performance parts. OMG...I mean, I cannot be associated with that buyer profile!

Come on over. I just made the jump after two decades in M cars and various other BMW's. It was time to finally go Porsche.

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Sedan_Clan

With some 18K+ posts on this forum, I figure you must be able to answer this question . . .

I understand ZCP means 'Competition Package.' What I do not understand is the difference between a model designated 'Competition' and one referred to as ZCP?

I mean, there was the F87 M2 and the M2 Competition. Why not refer to it as the M2 ZCP?

Thank you in advance.

///AVM

No worries. The ZCP was the internal code that began with the E46 M3's competition package back in '05. It has just carried on as part of the lingo despite whether or not that's what BMW still internally uses to identify the new competition models.

[CachacoF80]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Come on over. I just made the jump after two decades in M cars and various other BMW's. It was time to finally go Porsche.

No worries. The ZCP was the internal code that began with the E46 M3's competition package back in '05. It has just carried on as part of the lingo.

I think it I will do in the next 18m! Probably sell the F80 ZCP and keep the E46. And then figure out which of the multiple 911 models will fit best. If I wasn't growing sideways I'd consider the GT4 or the Lotus Emira. To date I have not driven anything that resembles what I felt driving my Elise. Maybe the Emira will be a bit more comfortable.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

I think it I will do in the next 18m! Probably sell the F80 ZCP and keep the E46. And then figure out which of the multiple 911 models will fit best. If I wasn't growing sideways I'd consider the GT4 or the Lotus Emira. To date I have not driven anything that resembles what I felt driving my Elise. Maybe the Emira will be a bit more comfortable.

Hopefully the market will level out by then. It is bananas right now. Honestly, I would recommend getting on an allocation list by December. Chances are it might take a year to get your car. I secured my spot in early May and my car won't get here until December.

[CachacoF80]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Hopefully the market will level out by then. It is bananas right now. Honestly, I would recommend getting on an allocation list by December. Chances are it might take a year to get your car. I secured my spot in early May and my car won't get here until December.

It's insane, new or used. I've a friend with a low miles 993 and he is getting unsolicited offers for $90k.

I wonder what can I get in 12m for my F80 ZCP, 6MT, San Marino Blue, Amaro interior, 13k miles, PPF and some CF bits.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

No worries. The ZCP was the internal code that began with the E46 M3's competition package back in '05. It has just carried on as part of the lingo despite whether or not that's what BMW still internally uses to identify the new competition models.

Muchos gracias!

So, technically, the F87C and M80C could be appropriately referred to as ZCP models?

My question arises specifically because I notice a lot of F80 owners reference their vehicles as "F80 M3 ZCP" instead of F80 M3 Competition.

///AVM

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

It's insane, new or used. I've a friend with a low miles 993 and he is getting unsolicited offers for $90k.

I wonder what can I get in 12m for my F80 ZCP, 6MT, San Marino Blue, Amaro interior, 13k miles, PPF and some CF bits.

Keep the mileage low and mid/high-50's should be realistically attainable.

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Muchos gracias!

So, technically, the F87C and M80C could be appropriately referred to as ZCP models?

My question arises specifically because I notice a lot of F80 owners reference their vehicles as "F80 M3 ZCP" instead of F80 M3 Competition.

///AVM

Indeed!

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I have a question. Why would you ever buy anything you found even partly atrocious? Let me explain. I have absolutely never liked the looks of the Corvette. (I love the new one). however I drove one once and it was a total blast. A true joy. I could have afforded it at the time but I could never get over the looks so I passed. Of course I don’t go on Corvette forums and tell all the enthusiast how ugly their favorite car is but I still don’t know why anyone would buy something they think is ugly. I’m still convinced that most of you long term diehard BMW M car fans are more upset that BMW changed it from the traditional grille rather then the ACTUAL looks of the new grille. I believe this because if you ask anybody that has no idea what car that is whether they think the front looks good or not I have yet to hear a person say they didn’t like it. The only haters seem to be the diehard long term BMW M car enthusiasts. YMMV

A lot of that is true. I'm pretty sure I don't qualify as a diehard BMW M car fan. Yes, I've been driving BMW's for 8 years now, and my SO also has a BMW, but that's mostly circumstance. I've looked at/test driven Audi, Merc, and even Ford before each purchase. I don't tend to like US cars a ton (for various reasons), but I certainly include them in possible purchase lists. I have little or no emotional attachment to the Hoffmeister kink, or any other particular bit. And I'm still not sure I like the way my M3 looks (except the color...IOMG has stolen my soul). I only liked MOST of the my M2C and thought it looked goofy from some angles. If someone gets off their tail and actually makes a car that fits my needs, I'll drop BMW in heartbeat. Right now, no one else makes the right car.

So, yeah, maybe that's why I can't get all worked up over the very silly grill. I don't think it's atrocious...but it's certainly silly. As were the headlights on my Integra GS-R back in the day. Or the stubby front-end of my RSX-S. Also, there's the Civic Type-R. I haven't owned one, but despite the utterly awful overdone Anime looks, I COULD if it was the only fun car I could get with a stick or I needed to go down-market (dealer mark-ups notwithstanding).

There's the other part...I got OVER my dislike of the grill as soon as the internet went nuts about it. And when I saw IOMG in real life.
Buying something that so many trolls lose their sh*t over is part of the fun of this car. But I am a misanthrope at heart.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by bri1042

. . . I only liked MOST of the my M2C and thought it looked goofy from some angles. . .

BINGO!!

I could not stand the rear third of the F87C, much the same as my views on the front of the G80C. . . but not about to throw either of these performance babies out with the bath water.

I'd like to say there is no perfect car, but that new GT3 sure appears close . . . now, if only I had an extra $180K lying around.

///AVM

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

BINGO!!

I could not stand the rear third of the F87C, much the same as my views on the front of the G80C. . . but not about to throw either of these performance babies out with the bath water.

I'd like to say there is no perfect car, but that new GT3 sure appears close . . . now, if only I had an extra $180K lying around.

///AVM

Speaking of the GT3….

…I feel about it the way some feel about the G8X. I hate the wing. I hate the front bumper. I hate the hood. The rear of the car would looking profoundly better with just the duckbill trunk spoiler. I feel like Porsche ruined the car for me. It is not an attractive car to me like the prior GT3 is/was. That said, I would still buy it given the financial opportunity because I can deal with what I don't like to harness the things I do like. I get your argument(s) loud and clear.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Patton250

As per my prior post, every consumer has different needs, interests, etc . . . and make purchase decisions accordingly.

Factors of my own are weighted around spirited daily driving (performance), with design architecture being less important. Not COMPLETELY unimportant, as I already stated the G82 exceeds my threshold when it comes to function over form.

So, yes, the G80C does not appeal to my visual senses, but I am more than satisfied with the vehicle because it excels at what is most important to ME . . . spirited daily driving performance.

For the record, I am not a long-term, ///M diehard . . . I was drawn to the BMW lineup for the first time by the F87C. The reason I despise the revised BMW front grilles is because they are unsightly as sin (to ME); not because they are different than the iconic BMW kidney grille.

You and dialogical seem to be coming from opposite ends of the spectrum. One cannot understand why anyone would focus on design architecture, while the other cannot understand how anyone could ignore it . . . does it matter, so long as the individual making the purchase is getting what they want?

///AVM

Thank you for getting back to me. On the record the part I highlighted I don’t believe. I truly mean no offense by that but I don’t believe it. I also believe you’ll get over it in a very short period of time. I’ve come to this conclusion simply because I have observed myself and many other men for the last 50 years. Thank you for your other comments also.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

Toyota Yaris and the like also sell very well. I guess from your standpoint that's an educated argument for many to switch bands. Granted, I'd take the Yaris GR front over the G8X.

Nope.

I just know marketing and sales is all.

I still don’t get what you’re mad at. I can’t stand the old style Corvette and it sells very well. Never really bothered me. I’m not crazy about the mustang either and it does very well. The truth is, so far at least, this new G80/82 is selling faster and leagues more with more enthusiasm than it’s predecessor. Keep your fingers crossed that could come to an end.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by bri1042

A lot of that is true. I'm pretty sure I don't qualify as a diehard BMW M car fan. Yes, I've been driving BMW's for 8 years now, and my SO also has a BMW, but that's mostly circumstance. I've looked at/test driven Audi, Merc, and even Ford before each purchase. I don't tend to like US cars a ton (for various reasons), but I certainly include them in possible purchase lists. I have little or no emotional attachment to the Hoffmeister kink, or any other particular bit. And I'm still not sure I like the way my M3 looks (except the color...IOMG has stolen my soul). I only liked MOST of the my M2C and thought it looked goofy from some angles. If someone gets off their tail and actually makes a car that fits my needs, I'll drop BMW in heartbeat. Right now, no one else makes the right car.

So, yeah, maybe that's why I can't get all worked up over the very silly grill. I don't think it's atrocious...but it's certainly silly. As were the headlights on my Integra GS-R back in the day. Or the stubby front-end of my RSX-S. Also, there's the Civic Type-R. I haven't owned one, but despite the utterly awful overdone Anime looks, I COULD if it was the only fun car I could get with a stick or I needed to go down-market (dealer mark-ups notwithstanding).

There's the other part...I got OVER my dislike of the grill as soon as the internet went nuts about it. And when I saw IOMG in real life.
Buying something that so many trolls lose their sh*t over is part of the fun of this car. But I am a misanthrope at heart.

I understand what you’re saying. Please understand I’ve come to my conclusions on who and why certain people hate this grille from doing a bunch of research this past many months. It has been an interesting phenomenon to watch. As I said before I just bought my first BMW a year ago and that was a 2020 X3 Xdrive for my wife. I had a 2016 C450 tuned to 500Hp prior to my G80 purchase. I thought about trying out BMW and my dealer showed me this new G80 coming out. So of course I did what any normal person does in this day and age I hit my iPad and started doing tons of research on it. And holy cow! LOL. First off before I did any research my initial thoughts were it was the best looking BMW I’ve ever seen. I thought every angle especially the front looked extremely aggressive and powerful. Then I hit the YouTube video comment sections and forums and I witnessed temper tantrum‘s that rivaled anything I ever saw from my children’s kindergarten days. You would have thought BMW ended the M program all together or at the very least got rid of combustion engines or something serious like that. But one thing I noticed from the vast majority of G80 grille haters was it was almost always coming from previous generation M3 owners especially the F80. Don’t get me wrong there are others that I pretty much figured were people that were just on the videos and could never afford the car anyway and just chimed in on the side of the previous M3 generation owners to fit in. The interesting part is the haters of this grille somehow figure themselves to be in the majority but if you look deep into it that’s not true at all in fact it’s just the opposite. You will notice if you look into it that most people from the outside I think the car looks awesome especially the front end. As I stated in another post if you ask people that gravitate towards other brands of vehicles what they think of it they will all tell you it looks great. Does anyone on this forum really think that BMW would release a car without doing tons of marketing research prior to the launch? These guys are not in the business of losing money. Don’t you think they knew in advance a good chunk of previous generation M3 owners were going to throw a fit? Of course they did. But their research and marketing told them there would be plenty of people like me that would come and buy the car and they would sell more of this generation than they ever did in the previous generations and they would also bring new people into BMW that hadn’t been before. It was genius. So here are my predictions. These F80 owners quietly over the next few years either get over it and buy one or move on to some other bad ass, fast sports car from a different brand. But the sales of this new G80/82 will continue to increase even through the very near future economic crash we are going to have. After all this will probably be the last fully combustion nonhybrid M3.