[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

So what happens if there is an also nicely balanced AWD platform that is faster than the RWD counter part ?

Would the AWD enthusiast be less enthusiast cause it's not as purist as the RWD one, even though it's faster?

It's very similar to the point you can make with Manual vs Automatic... People usually tend to attach to what they know and resist change.... I guess it's human nature

There are different types of enthusiast.

On AWD, there are such vehicles. Lamborghini Huracan for example. Faster as an AWD, but the 'enthusiast' models are the RWD versions. Same for Porsche Turbo vs GT2 for example. The GT2 would undoubtedly be faster as an AWD, but Porsche know what the hard core driving enthusiast wants.

AWD is a worse compromise in a FR platform in terms of driver involvement, the two examples I've mentioned above are rear weight biased platforms that don't significantly suffer from addition weight moved forward. G80 as well as other FR models becomes a nose heavy platform with the tame driving characteristics that come from that.
How can an enthusiast rejoice a platform that for other than 0-40mph traction performance is worse in every other single aspect?

Sure we are not in a racing category and people adapt to what they are steering, so it's fine that people choose the AWD version for their own needs. But a pure RWD enthusiast does know the difference.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

There are different types of enthusiast.

On AWD, there are such vehicles. Lamborghini Huracan for example. Faster as an AWD, but the 'enthusiast' models are the RWD versions. Same for Porsche Turbo vs GT2 for example. The GT2 would undoubtedly be faster as an AWD, but Porsche know what the hard core driving enthusiast wants.

AWD is a worse compromise in a FR platform in terms of driver involvement, the two examples I've mentioned above are rear weight biased platforms that don't significantly suffer from addition weight moved forward. G80 as well as other FR models becomes a nose heavy platform with the tame driving characteristics that come from that.
How can an enthusiast rejoice a platform that for other than 0-40mph traction performance is worse in every other single aspect?

Sure we are not in a racing category and people adapt to what they are steering, so it's fine that people choose the AWD version for their own needs. But a pure RWD enthusiast does know the difference.

Um….. the added weight (from what I was told by BMW) on the AWD is like 90lbs. And if you hate it you can turn it off and make the car RWD only. So there’s that.

I’ll be honest. This argument is pretty confusing to me. Id bet my firstborn that the first M3 didn’t have heads up display, Apple CarPlay or heated seats. In a serious question how does that fit into the purists view?

[M3AWD]

Oh these arguments about Auto vs. Manual and RWD vs. AWD... All I read is people talking about their preferences and trying to push their opinions onto others

Funny that some even make claims about the AWD being worse in everything except launch whereas no magazine or yourtubers have even published a single review to understand how it feels on the road and on the track, how it handles corners, whether the extra 100 lbs is noticeable, whether it has more understeer, etc...

Some like to label the Manual and/or RWD versions as the enthusiast versions or the purist versions just to make themselves feel special. Even the manual RWD version has a ton of tech and sensors and traction control and stability control features, etc... They're all high tech high performance cars and while one may be more engaging to someone, it is a slower car to someone else.

I was a die hard manual guy but at some point I decided to switch to auto. I was always a RWD guy but I decided to try AWD. Does that make me less enthusiast or purist? To some maybe, but what if someone like me has a couple of other manual cars in their garage, or even a dedicated, stripped-out, manual, RWD track car?

It doesn't matter, just enjoy the version you prefer and let others enjoy what they prefer.

[NISFAN]

[QUOTE=M3AWD;27930062]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Um….. the added weight (from what I was told by BMW) on the AWD is like 90lbs. And if you hate it you can turn it off and make the car RWD only. So there's that.

50kg's or 110lbs apparently.

Switching it off is not exactly the same as not having it in the first place. You don't get to switch off 110lbs mostly on the front axle, drivetrain losses, corrupt steering, etc. But sure it gives that edgy RWD drug that rear drivers crave an option…..occasionally.

Originally Posted by M3AWD

Oh these arguments about Auto vs. Manual and RWD vs. AWD... All I read is people talking about their preferences and trying to push their opinions onto others

Funny that some even make claims about the AWD being worse in everything except launch whereas no magazine or yourtubers have even published a single review to understand how it feels on the road and on the track, how it handles corners, whether the extra 100 lbs is noticeable, whether it has more understeer, etc...

Some like to label the Manual and/or RWD versions as the enthusiast versions or the purist versions just to make themselves feel special. Even the manual RWD version has a ton of tech and sensors and traction control and stability control features, etc... They're all high tech high performance cars and while one may be more engaging to someone, it is a slower car to someone else.

I was a die hard manual guy but at some point I decided to switch to auto. I was always a RWD guy but I decided to try AWD. Does that make me less enthusiast or purist? To some maybe, but what if someone like me has a couple of other manual cars in their garage, or even a dedicated, stripped-out, manual, RWD track car?

It doesn't matter, just enjoy the version you prefer and let others enjoy what they prefer.

They don't have to, it's pure physics. Drivetrain losses, extra weight will have an immediate impact on performance.

You can choose and drive what you want. There were some posts to say RWD is somehow redundant because of xDrive. I'm just saying that isn't true.

[M3AWD]

Originally Posted by nisfan

They don't have to, it's pure physics. Drivetrain losses, extra weight will have an immediate impact on performance.

You can choose and drive what you want. There were some posts to say rwd is somehow redundant because of xdrive. I'm just saying that isn't true.

Pure physics also says there's additional traction from the front wheels that's going to help the AWD version come out of a corner faster. On some tracks AWD may even do faster lap times. I don't think we can assume and jump into conclusions yet. Also think of the enthusiasts and purists that want to tune their cars and push more whp - the AWD version will definitely be more popular in that market as it'll put the power down much better

I'm not saying AWD is better than RWD, again it's all about preference and I'm happy we get both options. Same with Manual & Auto

On another note I agree with you that the RWD version is not redundant even if the AWD version has a RWD mode. The M3 has always been a RWD car and there will always be demand for the RWD version even after AWD becomes more available.

[6speed_M2]

AWD >>>> but thankfully they still make a manual

[CadHater]

Originally Posted by M3AWD

Oh these arguments about Auto vs. Manual and RWD vs. AWD... All I read is people talking about their preferences and trying to push their opinions onto others

Funny that some even make claims about the AWD being worse in everything except launch whereas no magazine or yourtubers have even published a single review to understand how it feels on the road and on the track, how it handles corners, whether the extra 100 lbs is noticeable, whether it has more understeer, etc...

Some like to label the Manual and/or RWD versions as the enthusiast versions or the purist versions just to make themselves feel special. Even the manual RWD version has a ton of tech and sensors and traction control and stability control features, etc... They're all high tech high performance cars and while one may be more engaging to someone, it is a slower car to someone else.

I was a die hard manual guy but at some point I decided to switch to auto. I was always a RWD guy but I decided to try AWD. Does that make me less enthusiast or purist? To some maybe, but what if someone like me has a couple of other manual cars in their garage, or even a dedicated, stripped-out, manual, RWD track car?

It doesn't matter, just enjoy the version you prefer and let others enjoy what they prefer.

So what happens if the AWD is actually faster all around?
Launches better AND has better lap times? What will be the argument then? An AWD with carbon seats and CC Brakes isn't going to be that much heavier than a rwd with normal seats and normal brakes.
I can't wait to see some heads up action with rwd vs AWD on the track. It will be interesting.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by CadHater

So what happens if the AWD is actually faster all around? Launches better AND has better lap times?

My guess is that it will vary. On a shorter, more technical track--especially in anything other than warm, dry pavement--the AWD will likely prevail. But on longer tracks, the difference may be negligible or even favor the RWD.

Originally Posted by CadHater

What will be the argument then?

The "argument" would be the same as it is for the 6MT, namely that it's more traditional and has a more pure feel...even if it's not the fastest.

Originally Posted by CadHater

It will be interesting.

It will.

[M3AWD]

Originally Posted by CadHater

So what happens if the AWD is actually faster all around?
Launches better AND has better lap times? What will be the argument then? An AWD with carbon seats and CC Brakes isn't going to be that much heavier than a rwd with normal seats and normal brakes.
I can't wait to see some heads up action with rwd vs AWD on the track. It will be interesting.

It doesn't change anything to what I'm saying. People will always have preferences and budgets.

[ChargerHellcat]

1/4 mile time yet???

[BMWRacer523]

I don't want to get into 6MT/Auto/RWD/AWD argument. i've daily driven and raced all those combinations and have ordered Xdrive comp this time. I came here to point out that turning AWD to RWD is not as simple as that because RWD mode requires DSC to be turned off completely and unless you specc'd M Professional option you cannot configure M Traction Control either.

[andrewsd]

The biggest pro of the RWD is I've gotten to drive it for the past couple months. If I wanted AWD I'd probably have to wait until the fall. If not longer. Inventory is tight!

Plus- everything will be AWD soon enough with electric around the corner. This will probably be my last RWD car… and I love it. Its balanced and playful… not at all short on grip.

With that said I'm hoping the AWD doesn't compromise anything, it'll likely be my next car.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by BMWRacer523

I don't want to get into 6MT/Auto/RWD/AWD argument. i've daily driven and raced all those combinations and have ordered Xdrive comp this time. I came here to point out that turning AWD to RWD is not as simple as that because RWD mode requires DSC to be turned off completely and unless you specc'd M Professional option you cannot configure M Traction Control either.

Yeah... don't quite get why they force DSC off for RWD... DSC could definitely be a separate option..

[CadHater]

Originally Posted by BMWRacer523

I don't want to get into 6MT/Auto/RWD/AWD argument. i've daily driven and raced all those combinations and have ordered Xdrive comp this time. I came here to point out that turning AWD to RWD is not as simple as that because RWD mode requires DSC to be turned off completely and unless you specc'd M Professional option you cannot configure M Traction Control either.

Which is why the M Drive Professional is a must have option on the AWD.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by M3AWD

Oh these arguments about Auto vs. Manual and RWD vs. AWD... All I read is people talking about their preferences and trying to push their opinions onto others

Funny that some even make claims about the AWD being worse in everything except launch whereas no magazine or yourtubers have even published a single review to understand how it feels on the road and on the track, how it handles corners, whether the extra 100 lbs is noticeable, whether it has more understeer, etc...

Some like to label the Manual and/or RWD versions as the enthusiast versions or the purist versions just to make themselves feel special. Even the manual RWD version has a ton of tech and sensors and traction control and stability control features, etc... They're all high tech high performance cars and while one may be more engaging to someone, it is a slower car to someone else.

I was a die hard manual guy but at some point I decided to switch to auto. I was always a RWD guy but I decided to try AWD. Does that make me less enthusiast or purist? To some maybe, but what if someone like me has a couple of other manual cars in their garage, or even a dedicated, stripped-out, manual, RWD track car?

It doesn't matter, just enjoy the version you prefer and let others enjoy what they prefer.

There are no purists here. Just enthusiasts and snobs. People that post in absolutes that a specific transmission or drivetrain setup is superior are snobs.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

There are no purists here. Just enthusiasts and snobs. People that post in absolutes that a specific transmission or drivetrain setup is superior are snobs.

Well put

[Dr. Ice]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

There are different types of enthusiast.

On AWD, there are such vehicles. Lamborghini Huracan for example. Faster as an AWD, but the 'enthusiast' models are the RWD versions. Same for Porsche Turbo vs GT2 for example. The GT2 would undoubtedly be faster as an AWD, but Porsche know what the hard core driving enthusiast wants.

AWD is a worse compromise in a FR platform in terms of driver involvement, the two examples I've mentioned above are rear weight biased platforms that don't significantly suffer from addition weight moved forward. G80 as well as other FR models becomes a nose heavy platform with the tame driving characteristics that come from that.
How can an enthusiast rejoice a platform that for other than 0-40mph traction performance is worse in every other single aspect?

Sure we are not in a racing category and people adapt to what they are steering, so it's fine that people choose the AWD version for their own needs. But a pure RWD enthusiast does know the difference.

Then they know why they finish second😏

[BMWRacer523]

Originally Posted by CadHater

Which is why the M Drive Professional is a must have option on the AWD.

Agree but it appears to be not clearly pointed out by either BMWs website or Sales Advisors.

[BMWRacer523]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Yeah... don't quite get why they force DSC off for RWD... DSC could definitely be a separate option..

yup, which is how I thought it would work until i read the details. Not sure why it is setup this way.

[Steve Gill]

Originally Posted by ChargerHellcat

1/4 mile time yet???

Unfortunately not. Weather was bad, my pads none existent after 2 trackdays and now the car is in Germany. Next update will be a lap of the Nurburgring

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Yeah... don't quite get why they force DSC off for RWD... DSC could definitely be a separate option..

The whole point of putting the AWD M3/4 in RWD mode is to drift, which DSC will prevent.

[Oejsup]

Originally Posted by dimmy

My 2021 RWD was totaled and I’m getting a 2022 AWD. That was the only thing I had any doubt about when I ordered my 2022 and this is like the universes way of correcting it maybe?

For what it’s worth I was MORE than contempt with the speed and power of the RWD, and when I had it I didn’t have any desire or thoughts of AWD because I was way too busy enjoying it. I wouldn’t regret or think on it too hard for anyone who already has (or even plans to get RWD) in the future as it’s plenty capable. I’m definitely excited to try out the AWD though! Should hopefully come in October (build week 36).


Was really hoping for some reviews by now though

How’d you total your car?