[///AVM]

Right around the 4K mile mark . . .

Looking at posts prior to my Bimmerpost ‘timeout,’ I brought up the topic of ‘driver’s car’ that spurred different responses. I think I will just let it go, realizing I know what it means to me . . . and acknowledging it is not a universally agreed upon term.

The G80C is my second consecutive ///M car and I have become a full-on BMW fanboy. The G80C truly remains a joy to drive. The one update I wanted to provide pertains to the ZF8 . . .

Over more recently years I have really enjoyed PDK and DCT in manual mode, but never really gave either much attention in automatic mode during spirited daily driving. As per prior posts in this thread, I think ZF8 manual mode is every bit as capable and engaging as DCT manual mode in my F87C.

The above stated, and for whatever reason, I really committed myself to ZF8 automatic mode over the past couple months . . . and it is now my preferred ‘mode’ during spirited and more routine daily driving.

In no way whatsoever a knock against manual mode, rather, I simply cannot get over how well BMW engineers dialed in automatic mode. More simply put, I think the G80C was made for ZF8 automatic mode . . .or is it the other way around?

Whatever the case, I have come to enjoy the hell out of the ZF8 automatic mode and, for those who have not yet done so, I think many will be very pleasantly surprised with automatic mode.

///AVM

[///AVM]

While exploring ZF8 automatic I discovered some interesting features that were not readily apparent to me in manual mode. . .

When I hop into the G80C I immediately hit the traction control button (MDM mode activated) and bump the transmission into D3 mode. I typically drive in this mode for a few miles until the engine is warmed up. . . before I engage M1 (Sport) or M2 (Sport Plus) settings.

With the above start-up settings, I notice there is only a subtle difference - if any at all - in shift points and where RPMs settle out on downshifts compared to SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes. The ENGINE (ASD) acoustics are the most dramatic changes between COMFORT, SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes.

As I have stated before, my embracing turbo engines has come with an appreciation for the acoustics coming more from under the hood than out the tailpipes. Some may agree, while other may not. Regardless, there has been a great deal of discussion throughout this forum regarding ASD.

Namely, ASD has been called ‘fake’ noise. I disagree and consider it AMPLIFIED engine acoustics, not fake acoustics. I absolutely love ASD. Again, however, others do not and have looked for ways to minimize ASD, if not eliminate it all together. Those who want to minimize ASD amplitude – yet enjoy SPORT and SPORT PLUS performance - it is quite simple. Engage MDM and D3 (or S3) transmission settings.

As has been established, the G80/82 exhaust valves – even in SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes – never seem to open fully and, even when open, the opening is transient. . . so, to enjoy the valves being fully and routinely open, the valves need to be manipulated. Thread for reference. This approach fully and constantly opens the exhaust valves; it does not increase maximal exhaust decibels.

At any rate, for those who have developed a dislike for ASD – but do not want to sacrifice performance associated with SPORT and SPORT PLUS - what I have pointed out will minimize ASD without compromising performance.

///AVM

[Multimodal]

Welcome back to Bimmerpost!

[///AVM]

Trying to catch up from some lost time . . . as I explored ZF8 automatic mode and was pleasantly surprised with the results, I began to think I owed it to myself to more thoroughly explore M Traction Control (MTC).

I previously stated MDM was more than adequate for hooligans. More than capable of getting the tires loose and feathering out rear end slide. I also concluded I saw no value for MTC over MDM on the common roadways.

At this point I have been using MTC set at 5 or 6 in SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes for about a month. Not ready to draw any firm conclusion, but will state I think MTC might be my sweet spot in terms of safe and appropriate hooligans on the roadways.

I tried settings 0 through 4 . . . and found them too loose for the roadways.

For anyone who owned an F87C, you quickly realized that full traction control was an absolute drag; nannies extremely intrusive. MDM mode was must.

G80C full traction control is not nearly as intrusive as with the F87C. Still, MDM mode is better. Even though extremely enjoyable in MDM mode, it is not until you drive with MTC that you fully realize what intrusion MDM nannies are providing. Very difficult to explain and falls under the heading of 'its just one of those things you need to experience.'

I want to emphasize again, MDM mode is fantastic. There just SEEMS to be something a little bit better with MTC settings 5 or 6 . . . provided you want to get a little more out the G80/82 and not be a moving road hazard (settings 0-4).

As I concluded in my prior post with ZF8 automatic mode, MTC is something I think many might find worth 'tinkering' with for a period of time. Would not be surprised if most settled on MDM mode. I think I am close to settling on MTC setting 6.

///AVM

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

Welcome back to Bimmerpost!

Thank you sir . . . not sure how long it will be this time, but I will do my best to keep the riots mostly peaceful.

///AVM

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

For anyone who owned an F87C, you quickly realized that full traction control was an absolute drag; nannies extremely intrusive. MDM mode was must.

G80C full traction control is not nearly as intrusive as with the F87C. Still, MDM mode is better. Even though extremely enjoyable in MDM mode, it is not until you drive with MTC that you fully realize what intrusion MDM nannies are providing. Very difficult to explain and falls under the heading of 'its just one of those things you need to experience.'

I want to emphasize again, MDM mode is fantastic. There just SEEMS to be something a little bit better with MTC settings 5 or 6 . . . provided you want to get a little more out the G80/82 and not be a moving road hazard (settings 0-4).

As I concluded in my prior post with ZF8 automatic mode, MTC is something I think many might find worth 'tinkering' with for a period of time. Would not be surprised if most settled on MDM mode. I think I am close to settling on MTC setting 6.

///AVM

I was considering posting a note similar to this, though my car (HEA build) did not come with the 10-stage traction control (oh well). Full nanny-mode on my M2C was deeply annoying except when traction was compromised (rain, etc...).

Six months in with the M3, I turn MDM mode on a lot less than I did with my M2C. I still use it a lot, but the difference isn't as drastic.

But the M2C (and maybe the other S55 cars, I won't speak for them as I never owned one) NEEDED aggressive traction control more than the G80 does. The light-switch on/off low-end power of the S55 combined with the "under-tired" stock setup on the car caused more traction issues than the G80 has with it's much better low-RPM power/tire balance.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by bri1042

. . . the G80 has . . . much better low-RPM power/tire balance.

bri1042

Agreed

My tires are spinning and I spend a lot more time feathering out the rear end in the G80C than I ever did in the F87C.

Yet, as you suggest, these occasions seems far more 'controlled' than with the F87. The G80C is just so well 'balanced.'

As per prior post, it is hard to describe the nuance between MDM mode and MTC setting 5 or 6. MDM mode is fantastic and it took my putting MTC through proper and extended testing to appreciate what it is has to offer over MDM mode.

///AVM

[JCZ5]

@///AVM what do you think about the upcoming M4 Convertible? 😄😉. I'm hoping it will have the same dynamic you described with your M3.

[///AVM]

Based on PMs I have received, seems I need to clarify Post #244 . . . I currently use three basic driving setups.

- COMFORT, MDM, D3
- M1: SPORT, MTC 6, D3
- M2: SPORT PLUS, MTC 6, D3

The key point is that all three offer the same (maximal) PERFORMANCE. It is the traction control and transmission settings that dictate performance.

Of note, does not matter whether you choose MDM or MTC, just so long as full traction control is disabled. Does not matter if you choose D3 or S3, just so long as you choose the most aggressive transmission setting.

The primary difference between the three is engine ACOUSTICS. Specifically, ASD decibels.

If you do NOT like ASD, then choose COMFORT; not sure if ASD is completely off or at a low output setting. If, like me, you find ASD acoustic enhancement enjoyable, then choose SPORT PLUS; it offers the loudest ASD output. SPORT offers intermediate ASD output.

The exhaust acoustics never get any louder, per se. In theory, the exhaust valves are more fully and prolonged in terms of opening as you move from COMFORT to SPORT to SPORT PLUS.

However, as we have shown repeatedly, the valves never fully open and maximal opening is very transient even in SPORT PLUS. The only real exhaust enhancement in moving from COMFORT to SPORT to SPORT PLUS is a modest bumps in burbles.

If you want the exhaust valves fully and continuously open, there are options discussed elsewhere in this sub-forum to achieve that. Again, this will not increase maximal exhaust decibels, rather, assure this maximum is always achieved (valves always fully open).

Of course, you can still play with steering, suspension, and brake settings. None are related to the topic at hand.

Hope that clarifies things.

///AVM

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

@///AVM what do you think about the upcoming M4 Convertible? 😄😉. I'm hoping it will have the same dynamic you described with your M3.

Brother JC

You are setting me up for failure with that question . . . but I will address it anyway.

First, you know I am not a big fan of the G80 design architecture, and even less so of the G82.

You also know, for me, it is all about performance . . . and I believe the G80C is currently the ultimate driving machine.

I have no reason to believe the M4 convertible offers anything other than the same driving experience (performance) as the G80/82.

All the above stated, your question comes across to me as being completed founded on aesthetics, so I will address it directly with the following . . .

I do not much like convertibles and I think the the M4 convertible is ugly as sin. I personally would not own one regardless of its performance . . . yes, I have a line I will not cross when it comes to design architecture, regardless of performance. The G82 approaches that line, but I would get one if the G80 were not available. I cannot say the same about the M4 convertible.

///AVM

[mzcp]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Trying to catch up from some lost time . . . as I explored ZF8 automatic mode and was pleasantly surprised with the results, I began to think I owed it to myself to more thoroughly explore M Traction Control (MTC).

I previously stated MDM was more than adequate for hooligans. More than capable of getting the tires loose and feathering out rear end slide. I also concluded I saw no value for MTC over MDM on the common roadways.

At this point I have been using MTC set at 5 or 6 in SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes for about a month. Not ready to draw any firm conclusion, but will state I think MTC might be my sweet spot in terms of safe and appropriate hooligans on the roadways.

I tried settings 0 through 4 . . . and found them too loose for the roadways.

For anyone who owned an F87C, you quickly realized that full traction control was an absolute drag; nannies extremely intrusive. MDM mode was must.

G80C full traction control is not nearly as intrusive as with the F87C. Still, MDM mode is better. Even though extremely enjoyable in MDM mode, it is not until you drive with MTC that you fully realize what intrusion MDM nannies are providing. Very difficult to explain and falls under the heading of 'its just one of those things you need to experience.'

I want to emphasize again, MDM mode is fantastic. There just SEEMS to be something a little bit better with MTC settings 5 or 6 . . . provided you want to get a little more out the G80/82 and not be a moving road hazard (settings 0-4).

As I concluded in my prior post with ZF8 automatic mode, MTC is something I think many might find worth 'tinkering' with for a period of time. Would not be surprised if most settled on MDM mode. I think I am close to settling on MTC setting 6.

///AVM

I agree with your MDM comment with the F87C. I used MTC setting 3-5 during my AutoX event. I also use MDM for daily driving and would not tinker with my MTC setting.

[blackheartm3]

Originally Posted by evilalien

Thanks ///AVM, that is exactly the variable I was hoping you'd cover. I'm not going to accept the P Zeros if I "lose the tire lottery". A tire that can't keep traction in the wet is life-threatening where I am, especially with this much power regardless of xDrive.

For as much as these cars cost "you get what you get and don't get upset" isn't good enough.

I'm taking delivery this Friday and my fingers are crossed. Have you spoken to your SA? Curious about what you plan on doing if you get P Zeros, will you not take delivery unless they change the wheels?

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by bri1042

I was considering posting a note similar to this, though my car (HEA build) did not come with the 10-stage traction control (oh well). Full nanny-mode on my M2C was deeply annoying except when traction was compromised (rain, etc...).

Six months in with the M3, I turn MDM mode on a lot less than I did with my M2C. I still use it a lot, but the difference isn't as drastic.

But the M2C (and maybe the other S55 cars, I won't speak for them as I never owned one) NEEDED aggressive traction control more than the G80 does. The light-switch on/off low-end power of the S55 combined with the "under-tired" stock setup on the car caused more traction issues than the G80 has with it's much better low-RPM power/tire balance.

Originally Posted by bri1042

I was considering posting a note similar to this, though my car (HEA build) did not come with the 10-stage traction control (oh well). Full nanny-mode on my M2C was deeply annoying except when traction was compromised (rain, etc...).

Six months in with the M3, I turn MDM mode on a lot less than I did with my M2C. I still use it a lot, but the difference isn't as drastic.

But the M2C (and maybe the other S55 cars, I won't speak for them as I never owned one) NEEDED aggressive traction control more than the G80 does. The light-switch on/off low-end power of the S55 combined with the "under-tired" stock setup on the car caused more traction issues than the G80 has with it's much better low-RPM power/tire balance.

You can call it traction issues or car character. In my opinion that's how the car was supposed to behave.

[evilalien]

Originally Posted by kenzillion

I'm taking delivery this Friday and my fingers are crossed. Have you spoken to your SA? Curious about what you plan on doing if you get P Zeros, will you not take delivery unless they change the wheels?

I did, and they said (some time ago) that they'd try to swap for me if that's an option. I don't think that'll actually be an option, though. Mine will apparently be the first MY22 G8* xDrive they deliver.

What I'm actually going to do is not worry about it. They is more evidence that the Pirellis are as good if not better than the Michelins in wet. There are a few people on the forums who loudly disagree, but also people that (less loudly) have anecdotes that agree with the Tirerack test results.

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tests/t...;affiliate=HP5

[blackheartm3]

Originally Posted by evilalien

I did, and they said (some time ago) that they'd try to swap for me if that's an option. I don't think that'll actually be an option, though. Mine will apparently be the first MY22 G8* xDrive they deliver.

What I'm actually going to do is not worry about it. They is more evidence that the Pirellis are as good if not better than the Michelins in wet. There are a few people on the forums who loudly disagree, but also people that (less loudly) have anecdotes that agree with the Tirerack test results.

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tests/t...&affiliate=HP5

Thanks for the info. Makes me feel better about potentially getting PZ4s. Mine's an xDrive as well, I'll let you know on Friday what I end up getting!

[///AVM]

Quick post while fueling up . . .

Saw another G80 for the first time out in the wild today.

I have to say, seeing the car out on the roadway provides a perspective that simply cannot be captured online in photos or video.

Even though I am not a fan of the G80 design architecture, I must admit the package comes together quite nicely while in motion out on the roadway . . . G80 has an amazing ROAD PRESENCE.

///AVM

[///AVM]

Well, I must admit, it has taken some seat time and a little negotiating . . . but I absolutely enjoy the hell out of this G80C.

One thing that has really helped me is a change in roadway environment. . . as I have come to appreciate, these visceral driving machines are only as good as the roadways to which they have access.

I recently relocated back down to a relatively rural, southern climate with easy access to some amazing backroad 'twisties.' This relocation has taken the G80C to entirely new enjoyment level.

In the pick below, go straight up the hill and it is a driver's paradise . . . not to mention, that is also where you find one or two horse farms that have no horses.

I am heading up the hill now . . . buckle up, things are about to get real

///AVM

[evilalien]

Originally Posted by kenzillion

I'm taking delivery this Friday and my fingers are crossed. Have you spoken to your SA? Curious about what you plan on doing if you get P Zeros, will you not take delivery unless they change the wheels?

I've moved on from my poorly-informed position, largely care of objective testing by Tirerack.

I did talk to my SA about this before, and they were going to try to swap for me if that was an option. I don't expect it will be, there isn't exactly a flood of the cars coming in. I'll get what I get and not get upset. In any case, the winters will probably go straight on.

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by evilalien

I've moved on from my poorly-informed position, largely care of objective testing by Tirerack.

I did talk to my SA about this before, and they were going to try to swap for me if that was an option. I don't expect it will be, there isn't exactly a flood of the cars coming in. I'll get what I get and not get upset. In any case, the winters will probably go straight on.

The P Zeros are a decent tire. Got them on mine and no complaints at all. Solid grip and quiet as well.

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Well, I must admit, it has taken some seat time and a little negotiating . . . but I absolutely enjoy the hell out of this G80C.

One thing that has really helped me is a change in roadway environment. . . as I have come to appreciate, these visceral driving machines are only as good as the roadways to which they have access.

I recently relocated back down to a relatively rural, southern climate with easy access to some amazing backroad 'twisties.' This relocation has taken the G80C to entirely new enjoyment level.

In the pick below, go straight up the hill and it is a driver's paradise . . . not to mention, that is also where you find one or two horse farms that have no horses.

I am heading up the hill now . . . buckle up, things are about to get real

///AVM

The roads you have access to make a huge difference. Leaving our house right now there are some decent roads in every direction. Nothing long, but 5 minutes of fun driving. Being able to enjoy the car every time I leave the driveway makes a big difference.

[///AVM]

I have had several PMs about the rural twisties and horse farms with no horses . . . well, let me just say, the two are mutually inclusive.

Sorry, either you know what a horse farm with no horses implies, or you do not . . . if I explained, well, then I would be back in the Bimmerpost penalty box.

Anyway, here are some pics that I think shed some light . . . I can assure you there is nothing and nobody within miles of me when/where taking these photos.

There is no speed limit (enforced) and worth considering that nobody is coming any time soon if you exceed your talent level on the roadway.

The structure in the photo is more secure than Fort Knox. . .

///AVM

[PIF64]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

I have had several PMs about the rural twisties and horse farms with no horses . . . well, let me just say, the two are mutually inclusive.

Sorry, either you know what a horse farm with no horses implies, or you do not . . . if I explained, well, then I would be back in the Bimmerpost penalty box.

Anyway, here are some pics that I think shed some light . . . I can assure you there is nothing and nobody within miles of me when/where taking these photos.

There is no speed limit (enforced) and worth considering that nobody is coming any time soon if you exceed your talent level on the roadway.

The structure in the photo is more secure than Fort Knox. . .

///AVM

lovely surroundings