[evilalien]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

my G80C seems 'under-tired' with P Zeros on both dry and, particularly wet road conditions. If I keep the G80C long enough to wear out the P Zero treads, I would definitely switch to PS4S.

///AVM

Thanks ///AVM, that is exactly the variable I was hoping you'd cover. I'm not going to accept the P Zeros if I "lose the tire lottery". A tire that can't keep traction in the wet is life-threatening where I am, especially with this much power regardless of xDrive.

For as much as these cars cost "you get what you get and don't get upset" isn't good enough.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by evilalien

Thanks ///AVM, that is exactly the variable I was hoping you'd cover. I'm not going to accept the P Zeros if I "lose the tire lottery". A tire that can't keep traction in the wet is life-threatening where I am, especially with this much power regardless of xDrive.

For as much as these cars cost "you get what you get and don't get upset" isn't good enough.

evilalien

Well, the weather is warm and the tires have nearly 2K miles on them, so they are more than broken in . . . I think stating the P Zeros offer inferior traction is a reasonable conclusion.

///AVM

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

I realize it is impossible to accurately compare various tires brands/makes across different chassis. That stated, I do have the following perspective of Pirelli P Zero tires on the G80C . . .

My 718 CGTS had PS4S tires and F87C had PS tires . . . the GTS is a sport car and one of the best handling vehicles on the road today. How much of the traction/handling was related to the PS4S is hard to state, but I suspect the tires played an important role.

I only ever drove the F87C with stock PS tires and always thought the F87C was 'under-tired.' In other words, had I kept the F87C I would have either gone 245/265 PS4S or something like 255/275 PS4S. At any rate, would have liked a little more traction, on dry and particularly wet road conditions.

The G80C with P Zero tires seems to ride fine and road noise is not a problem. I may or may not appreciate improved ride and reduced road noise with the PS/PS4S tires?

When warm (above 100 degrees) on dry roads the P Zero grip is decent on most occasions. However, if I am aggressive with throttle, even the heated up P Zeros will 'spin' when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gears. I do not mind a little slip when going from 1st to 2nd gears, but not a fan when north of 60 mph and the rear end gets loose going from 2nd to 3rd gears.

Although not much by way of being a valid comparison across different chassis, think the P Zero traction is inferior to both the PS and PS4S tires. Like the F87C, my G80C seems 'under-tired' with P Zeros on both dry and, particularly wet road conditions. If I keep the G80C long enough to wear out the P Zero treads, I would definitely switch to PS4S.

///AVM

The F87C absolutely was 'under-tired'. I went to larger PS4S's (265/30 Front, 295/30 Rear) on mine and it was a significant transformation. The car was so much more usable and stable than on the stock rubber. As someone who is not a professional driver, I felt that BMW made a serious mistake with the stock tire size on that car. Chris Harris may have had tons of fun drifting it around a course, but the 'under-tired' issue probably caused a few accidents and likely scared many non-Chris Harris's away from the car.

It was never a crowd-killing older gen Mustang, but it wasn't what it should have been.

[///AVM]

I think many will suggest that brake pad/rotor bedding-in will occur naturally over the first few hundred miles. Others might feel an active bedding-in procedure should be performed with any new vehicle or set of new brake pads. It has been hit-or-miss in my experience.

With over 2K miles on my G80C I would not complain about the brakes, however, they just never felt ‘right.’ Periods of extreme grip; others where a sense of ‘fade’ prevailed. Sometimes a smooth braking; other times feeling course and/or stuttering. Days of high squealing; others with none. Simply put, just an inconsistent braking action and feel.

So, I resorted to an active bedding-in procedure. 4-5 times of brisk braking from 35-45 to 10-15 mph to ‘warm up’ the brakes, followed by 8-10 times of brisk braking from 60-70 to 10-15 mph to really ‘heat up’ the brakes. I then jump onto freeway and just cruise for 15-20 minutes - minimal to no braking - to allow brakes to cool down.

Braking now seems ‘right.’ Very smooth and consistent in ‘bite.’ Almost ‘buttery soft,’ yet with a linear and consistent gripping action that corresponds nicely and predictably to brake pedal intensity. The squealing that was present has disappeared . . . I would not be surprised if the squealing resurfaces, but the squealing was not a primary basis of my pursuing an active bedding-in procedure.

Overall, not sure if the described braking experience is unique to my G80C, or that an active bedding-in would benefit the model across owners? I guess that is for everyone to decipher on their own.

///AVM

[buckybadger]

How's the Batman brake dust? Something I really dislike on all BMWs, M2C being terrible in this regard.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

How's the Batman brake dust? Something I really dislike on all BMWs, M2C being terrible in this regard.

Bucky

I have little regard for the brake dust . . . on the rare occasion I wash my vehicle, the wheels simply get rinsed which, as you know, does next to nothing.

I have learned to really embrace the matted brake dust finish, thinking the finish reeks of usage and looks kinda menacing.

Would I love it if my car and wheels were always 'showroom clean?' Of course, but I just do not have any interest in trying to keep up with the elements.

Relating your comments to the topic at hand, the bedding-in process is a brake dust frenzy

///AVM

[///AVM]

buckybadger

Couple quick followup points . . .

1. You can see up close and personal the status of my wheels. In part from bedding-in procedure, but largely from routine usage. From a few feet away they just look 'matted,' and I have learned to like the 'look' . . . out of my own necessity At any rate, the pic should answer your brake dust question pertaining to the G80C.

2. For those who perform an active bedding-in procedure, you can expect more than just brake 'dust.' If you look closely, you can see brake pad 'granules' have collected in the inner wheel dwelling (yellow arrows). This granular collection is an expected finding as part of the bedding-in process.

3. Crazy, but somehow a bug managed a 'side-on' collision with my wheel (red arrow head). The little fella did not fair any better than it would during a head-on collision with my windshield.

///AVM

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

buckybadger

Couple quick followup points . . .

1. You can see up close and personal the status of my wheels. In part from bedding-in procedure, but largely from routine usage. From a few feet away they just look 'matted,' and I have learned to like the 'look' . . . out of my own necessity At any rate, the pic should answer your brake dust question pertaining to the G80C.

2. For those who perform an active bedding-in procedure, you can expect more than just brake 'dust.' If you look closely, you can see brake pad 'granules' have collected in the inner wheel dwelling (yellow arrows). This granular collection is an expected finding as part of the bedding-in process.

3. Crazy, but somehow a bug managed a 'side-on' collision with my wheel (red arrow head). The little fella did not fair any better than it would during a head-on collision with my windshield.

///AVM

Thanks for sharing.

You can use Sonax wheel cleaner and it should bring your wheels back to showroom finish.

I haven't seen anything close to Sonax, this stuff is made in Germany. High quality, a little expensive and totally worth it.

https://www.sonaxusa.com/sonax-wheel-cleaner.html

I use it on my M2C every 4-5 months, and manage cleaning wheels with optimum no rinse (ONR) in the middle.

For my X5, ONR does the job. But I use power clean:

https://www.autogeek.net/128oz-optim...clean-apc.html

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

Thanks for sharing.

You can use Sonax wheel cleaner and it should bring your wheels back to showroom finish.

I haven't seen anything close to Sonax, this stuff is made in Germany. High quality, a little expensive and totally worth it.

https://www.sonaxusa.com/sonax-wheel-cleaner.html

I use it on my M2C every 4-5 months, and manage cleaning wheels with optimum no rinse (ONR) in the middle.

For my X5, ONR does the job. But I use power clean:

https://www.autogeek.net/128oz-optim...clean-apc.html

Thank you Bucky

Please know I am very appreciative for your taking the time to share your cleaning product experience.

I simply do not have much in the way of interest in the aesthetic maintenance process when it comes to automobiles.

I realize I am speaking to an enthusiast audience who tends to place a great deal of pride and care in aesthetic details and maintenance. I also respect whatever it is that gives others ownership enjoyment, even if I do not share a similar degree of enthusiasm toward this particular aspect of ownership.

///AVM

[MKParris]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

buckybadger

Couple quick followup points . . .

1. You can see up close and personal the status of my wheels. In part from bedding-in procedure, but largely from routine usage. From a few feet away they just look 'matted,' and I have learned to like the 'look' . . . out of my own necessity At any rate, the pic should answer your brake dust question pertaining to the G80C.

2. For those who perform an active bedding-in procedure, you can expect more than just brake 'dust.' If you look closely, you can see brake pad 'granules' have collected in the inner wheel dwelling (yellow arrows). This granular collection is an expected finding as part of the bedding-in process.

3. Crazy, but somehow a bug managed a 'side-on' collision with my wheel (red arrow head). The little fella did not fair any better than it would during a head-on collision with my windshield.

///AVM

Sonax wheel cleaner and some wheel wollies will change your life.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by MKParris

Sonax wheel cleaner and some wheel wollies will change your life.

Thank you MK

As I shared with buckybadger, I have no problem in executing the clean-up . . . just not interested in trying to keep up with the elements.

I could clean my wheels right now and by the time I reached the end of my block they would be covered in brake dust.

The same is true of the car, in general . . . just not that interested in routine aesthetic maintenance as many other car enthusiasts.

Once again, I completely respect those that enjoy the maintenance aspect of car ownership.

///AVM

[///AVM]

A little Portimao Blue as the sun begins to set . . .

buckybadger, MKParris and vetteflier I wanted to show each of you that, albeit rare, my cars do have the occasion to get washed.

I intentionally did not take a side-on pic, as the wheels are not part of the occasion and I did not want anyone getting uncomfortable.

Gosh I really hate those front grilles . . . but the hood cleans up nice and I have become quite a fan of the Portimao Blue.

With the long holiday weekend all but upon us, I really hope to get out for some seriously spirited driving.

///AVM

Edit: not visible from this pic or normal viewing distances, but the beast has begun to accrue some serious road battle scars.

Aesthetically speaking, these do not bother me, particularly when localized to largely plastic components of the front end or windshield.

What I do pay proper attention is when large chips occur down to the metal surfaces. . . these can rather quickly rust and expand. I have an impressive chip on the right front fender that is clear through the paint, down to metal.

I ordered some Dr. Color Chip that should arrive in the next few days. I will take a some before and after pics for anyone who has not yet tried Dr. Color Chip to give a sense of results obtained.

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

A little Portimao Blue as the sun begins to set . . .

buckybadger, MKParris and vetteflier I wanted to show each of you that, albeit rare, my cars do have the occasion to get washed.

I intentionally did not take a side-on pic, as the wheels are not part of the occasion and I did not want anyone getting uncomfortable.

Gosh I really hate those front grilles . . . but the hood cleans up nice and I have become quite a fan of the Portimao Blue.

With the long holiday weekend all but upon us, I really hope to get out for some seriously spirited driving.

///AVM

Edit: not visible from this pic or normal viewing distances, but the beast has begun to accrue some serious road battle scars.

Aesthetically speaking, these do not bother me, particularly when localized to largely plastic components of the front end or windshield.

What I do pay proper attention is when large chips occur down to the metal surfaces. . . these can rather quickly rust and expand. I have an impressive chip on the right front fender that is clear through the paint, down to metal.

I ordered some Dr. Color Chip that should arrive in the next few days. I will take a some before and after pics for anyone who has not yet tried Dr. Color Chip to give a sense of results obtained.

Thanks, that will be great. I'm also looking to try Dr. Colorchip out on my X5 and I have a chip down to the metal on my hood.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

Thanks, that will be great. I'm also looking to try Dr. Colorchip out on my X5 and I have a chip down to the metal on my hood.

Bucky

I have used Dr. Color Chip for chips down to metal over the past few years . . . very easy to use and effective. Will post some pics once available.

///AVM

[evilalien]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

I have an impressive chip on the right front fender that is clear through the paint, down to metal.

I ordered some Dr. Color Chip that should arrive in the next few days. I will take a some before and after pics for anyone who has not yet tried Dr. Color Chip to give a sense of results obtained.

Inevitable but sad nonetheless. I'm curious, but rather than try to find the answer in previous posts I will just ask: did you PPF and/or ceramic coat? Opinions?

I expect some debris-related damage, and I'm most worried about rocks getting at radiators etc through the grille and other intakes. I lost an A/C compressor once in a previous car do to a small rock through the grille, so while low probability I know for a fact it is still a real risk. I collected chips (including a small windshield chip) the very first drive home after taking delivery of my current car. I intend to have PPF and ceramic done to my on-order M3C xDrive before it leaves the lot, if possible.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by evilalien

. . . I'm curious, but rather than try to find the answer in previous posts I will just ask: did you PPF and/or ceramic coat? Opinions? . . .

evilalien

I know others are . . . but I am just not into the ceramic and PPF protection.

Dr. Color Chip is like $50, the kit will last longer than the car itself, and takes about 10 minutes to fix a major chip down to metal.

///AVM

[vetteflier]

Dr. Color Chips does work great and easy to use. Agree with you on no ppf or ceramic coating. I do have ppf on the CR-V as it came with it, and it did scuff deeply with a stone chip, but obviously protected the paint, so I can see why many like it. Had a chip in the same place on my '16, non-ppf'd, CR-V. Car looks great! That blue would have been my second choice, after black. I'm anal about keeping the car clean, so use Meguiars Detailer on the grill to get rid of the inevitable bugs splats. It does seem to offer good protection for the numerous radiators against stone potential damage, which is good.

[///AVM]

I have really struggled trying to put my finger on this 'RAW versus REFINED' topic when it comes to the G80C . . . I think I have finally come to terms with the topic.

To be clear, when I speak of refined, I am not referring to comfort features or technology. The G80C cabin is great, and I use very little of the technology available. The F87C cabin was pretty simple, yet it too had everything and much more than I needed or ever used.

When I speak of refinement, I am talking about PERFORMANCE. On the one hand, the G80C is unquestionably next level engineering. S58 is an absolute beast. ZF8 is every bit as capable and enjoyable with the S58 as DCT was in the F87C; suspension and handling superb . . . the G80C is a performer!!!

So, what it this overriding sense of 'refinement' I have garnered when it comes to the G80C?

It became apparent to me yesterday during some highly spirited backroad driving. During the excursion I was able to really push the G80C. Not talking 9/10th's stuff some might achieve on the track . . . but much more than the typical spirited daily driving.

What I concluded is the G80C is such a capable vehicle that, even during my typical spirited daily driving, I rarely approach the limits of its capabilities. I have been constantly aware of its capabilities yet, at the same time, frustrated by my inability to access them . . . when I did have access - as was the case yesterday - it was like letting a cheetah out its cage. Both the driver and the car were in their glory.

Until yesterday, not really knowing the source of my frustration, I resorted to using the term 'refined' to express my frustration. I now feel the term 'CONFINED' is more appropriate than 'refined' in describing the G80C.

Honestly, I almost feel like a weight, of sorts, has been lifted off my shoulders in identifying what it was that has been bothering me . . . in a weird way, I am more satisfied with my overall driving experience in knowing. I just need to find more opportunities to let this cheetah out of its cage.

///AVM

[akkando]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Just uploaded first BMW software update to the G80C.

Not sure if this was a feature in my F87C? If it was, it never came to my attention.

At any rate, took about 20 minutes during which I could drive the care. No idea what the update accomplished, although I believe there was some description in the notification . . . which I did not take time read.

What I do know is that the update fucked with just about every setting I had in the vehicle. M1 and M2 setting were changed; Auto Stop/Start turned off; favorite buttons all wiped clear; . . . and probably a few other settings I have yet to realize.

Wonder if anyone else experienced this with the software update?

///AVM

Can you decide to opt out from an update?

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by akkando

Can you decide to opt out from an update?

Yes. In fact, you kind of need to 'opt in' to get the download.

I received message on the MY BMW app to inform me the update was available and could be downloaded when I next get into vehicle.

I forget now, but I think the update notification appeared when turned car on, but it might have been when I turned it off? Or both?

At any rate, as far as I can tell it will just sit there until you actively download it.

///AVM

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

I have really struggled trying to put my finger on this 'RAW versus REFINED' topic when it comes to the G80C . . . I think I have finally come to terms with the topic.

To be clear, when I speak of refined, I am not referring to comfort features or technology. The G80C cabin is great, and I use very little of the technology available. The F87C cabin was pretty simple, yet it too had everything and much more than I needed or ever used.

When I speak of refinement, I am talking about PERFORMANCE. On the one hand, the G80C is unquestionably next level engineering. S58 is an absolute beast. ZF8 is every bit as capable and enjoyable with the S58 as DCT was in the F87C; suspension and handling superb . . . the G80C is a performer!!!

So, what it this overriding sense of 'refinement' I have garnered when it comes to the G80C?

It became apparent to me yesterday during some highly spirited backroad driving. During the excursion I was able to really push the G80C. Not talking 9/10th's stuff some might achieve on the track . . . but much more than the typical spirited daily driving.

What I concluded is the G80C is such a capable vehicle that, even during my typical spirited daily driving, I rarely approach the limits of its capabilities. I have been constantly aware of its capabilities yet, at the same time, frustrated by my inability to access them . . . when I did have access - as was the case yesterday - it was like letting a cheetah out its cage. Both the driver and the car were in their glory.

Until yesterday, not really knowing the source of my frustration, I resorted to using the term 'refined' to express my frustration. I now feel the term 'CONFINED' is more appropriate than 'refined' in describing the G80C.

Honestly, I almost feel like a weight, of sorts, has been lifted off my shoulders in identifying what it was that has been bothering me . . . in a weird way, I am more satisfied with my overall driving experience in knowing. I just need to find more opportunities to let this cheetah out of its cage.

///AVM

Raw refers to old school BMW feel.

Tight, hard and pain in the a** to drive on bad roads.
The car should feel hard but not uncomfortable, nimble, fun and addicting. DCT notches up the raw level a bit more to the next level. Raw means character not performance or speed.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

. . . Raw means character not performance or speed.

Bucky

If you push the G80C performance, I believe its character comes out . . . that 'rawness' comes out of confinement.

It is always in there, but needs to be exposed.

///AVM