[Patton250]

Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89

The automotive industry tends to be a bit adverse to major change especially in the styling department. Remember, everyone HATED the E65 bangle butt but it still sold. Everyone hated Audi's large grill back in the 00's but now you can't even imagine Audi now without their big a** grills. People will get over it and I'm sure the G8X will still sell well. Looks are subjective and to an extent, automotive journalist's opinions are subjective. Just buy what you want and call it day. Who cares what Johnny Lieberman has to say...

Extremely well put.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by snareman

Except for now I can't unsee it, that mongo windshield wiper.

Everyone will only be seeing the back of these things!!! I can't imagine what that thing will feel like on Launch control!! LOL It will be at 60 MPH before you let off your clutch

[unfoundnemo]

Someone did a write-up a couple months back explaining why it looks better in person, basically just that cameras - especially cell phone cameras, have focal lengths different than the human eye which are going to distort the image. Hell, my 8 series doesn't look all that great in many pictures of it. There are so many times that I walk up on it from behind and try everything to capture what I'm seeing, but unless it's sitting between some giant SUVs to show more relative proportions, it just doesn't work.

Most cars look at least slightly different on camera vs in person, here we're just taking a polarizing feature and the camera lens, depth of field, angle, etc. is all just unintentionally distorting that feature in a way that magnifies it in most front shots.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by unfoundnemo

Someone did a write-up a couple months back explaining why it looks better in person, basically just that cameras - especially cell phone cameras, have focal lengths different than the human eye which are going to distort the image. Hell, my 8 series doesn't look all that great in many pictures of it. There are so many times that I walk up on it from behind and try everything to capture what I'm seeing, but unless it's sitting between some giant SUVs to show more relative proportions, it just doesn't work.

Most cars look at least slightly different on camera vs in person, here we're just taking a polarizing feature and the camera lens, depth of field, angle, etc. is all just unintentionally distorting that feature in a way that magnifies it in most front shots.

I remember that post. People post these wide angle shots which really distort the proportions of everything.

[vetteflier]

If the Ms were the first with a huge grill, it would have been a shock. But Lexus, Audi and even Toyota--among others, paved the way. I liked it in pictures, and love it in person. My car is black, so gives the Darth Vader look head-on. Light colors wouldn't look as good, although red would be fine. I think the previous Ms looked fine, but too generic for my taste. This car looks far better to me. Add in the outstanding drivetrain, luxurious interior, great info system and it rings all the bells to me. Probably, that's why I traded in a Corvette that I loved for it. I wouldn't have for the earlier versions. Not knocking them, just not to my taste.

[TrentMeister]

This just goes to show TONS(11.5k) of people like it.

But you still have try hard's in the comments attempting to shame BMW.

[e90post_user]

Originally Posted by Patton250

My panties aren’t in a wad bro. I’m highly amused. You should’ve made your prediction before they went on sale. Perhaps you did. But if you did it certainly didn’t age well.

Bro, I got it. It’s the most sold ugliest BMW so far - I’m sure motortrend has a trophy for that.

[Tyga11]

99.9% of the people who comment the car is ugly on SM can't afford it anyways. The jealousy is real!

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I think there's absolutely a case of internet bandwagoning going on with automotive journalists. It's a controversial design to say the least, and pretty much every review will point to that in an attempt to appeal to the masses. You're subconsciously more likely to like a review if you tend to agree with the reviewer in general... call it confirmation bias.

In regards to using sales figures to confirm whether or not the G8x is a success or not compared to previous generations - well that might be a bit of a skewed perspective when considering this will be one of the more accessible M3/M4's in history. You've got a torque converter automatic and AWD, so if anything the G8x will appeal to the masses more than previous generations have. So you're almost guaranteed more sales. That says nothing of whether the G8x is more popular among the enthusiast community or not.

All this being said, I personally couldn't give a rats ass. I'll most likely be ordering an M3 next year once my m340i lease is up because 1) I actually like the look of it, I think it oozes road presence and just looks so aggressive and mean, and 2) It drives absolutely wonderfully.

An $78,000 average sale car (not adding any Individual option) is not a "mass appeal car".

I do hope that the G8x sells a lot, but the "mini-M5/M8" pricing will hurt it in resale and ultimately in sales in a few years.

[kamichael]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

There's a reason a lot of people have to take breaks from social media as the internet is an extremely negative place. Auto forums are notorious for hating on new designs. Just look at the hate for the latest X3/X3M LCI which is a very subtle change from the original to the point where hating on the LCI is basically hating on the OG design. I remember when Audi implemented the large grilles that the majority didn't like (I did from the start but I've never been one to look to the past) and today their grilles are twice or 3x the size and people think they are tasteful. You have to give BMW credit for sticking with the design despite the internet backlash as the cars truly do look much, much better in person.

I was looking to pick up a used F8x but the more months that pass by and I see more videos of the G8x the more the F8x is starting to look really dated to me. It's only going to look more dated as the years pass and people get more exposure to the G8x. I expect a lot of people that hate it now will continue to hate it because people are stubborn and there's only a very small handful of vehicles with universally loved styling. I always felt the E9x looked like a chubby car and the least aesthetically pleasing of the generations but plenty love it because it's only my subjective opinion that shouldn't have any influence on how others feel about their cars or what they like. The problem is that a lot of people on the internet feel their opinion matters and they keep trying to force it on others by trolling and repeating their dislike over and over. They need to get over that and grow up.

I have thought of this very point with regard to Audi. I for one always liked Audi's front grille design after it grew a decade or so back. Today it is even larger on all their models - most of which I still like. I also look to the new Lexus IS (350 anf 500) - the front grille and side skirt designs resemble the G80. Why have so many reviewers gone after BMW for this and not the others? There is probably no one answer to this quandary.

See some similarities? Strangely, I also started to feel the same way about the F80 recently - and I have previously owned two of them.

[heavyD^2]

In the coming years threads like this will disappear as the focus shifts to rumors of next generation M3/M4 that likely include electrification which will bring forth it's own discussions of how how heavy it will be, how BMW has lost it's way, how much better the G8x and past generations are than this new electric model, etc. This is the cycle of automobile fandom.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by e90post_user

Bro, I got it. It’s the most sold ugliest BMW so far - I’m sure motortrend has a trophy for that.

You got it. BMW and all of us that bought it are stupid and you are smart. Have you considered flying over to Munich, introducing yourself to the BMW engineers and letting them know what idiots they are and that you could show them how to design cars better than them? You never know they might go for it.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Encanto

An $85,000 average sale car (not adding any Individual option) is not a "mass appeal car".

I do hope that the G8x sells a lot, but the "mini-M5/M8" pricing will hurt it in resale and ultimately in sales in a few years.

I thought it would be implied that I was speaking in relative terms

No M car is a "mass appeal car". But relative from M car to M car, the point of the comparison was G8x to F8x. The G8x represents a more accessible car in terms of daily drivability due to the reasons mentioned, and as a result will likely sell more because you'll see a larger take rate among the non enthusiast community (you know, the "masses").

I also don't understand the pricing complaints. Adjusted for inflation it's very much in line with M3's of the past.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Encanto

An $78,000 average sale car (not adding any Individual option) is not a "mass appeal car".

I do hope that the G8x sells a lot, but the "mini-M5/M8" pricing will hurt it in resale and ultimately in sales in a few years.

Is this a prediction? Give me the month a year and I’ll market in my calendar to come back to this point in the thread. If you are right I’ll capitulate and call you a genius in front of everyone. Of course the upcoming economy crash might make you right but not for the reasons you stated. By the way I love the M5 and the M8. I passed on both to purchase the M3. Actually I even passed on the E63. It really came down to that or the M8. It was the looks of this new M3 that caused me to ditch the other ones and purchase it instead.

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Is this a prediction? Give me the month a year and I’ll market in my calendar to come back to this point in the thread. If you are right I’ll capitulate and call you a genius in front of everyone. Of course the upcoming economy crash might make you right but not for the reasons you stated.

My reasoning is that the closer in pricing the M3/4 gets to the M5/M8, the closer it will get to the depreciation curve that the M5/M8 has.

[PVC]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Well the only way to truly poll these things is sales. Peoples opinion don’t mean crap until money is spent. So if we use money/sales as the poll this car blows away its predecessor quite significantly actually. It’s true. Look it up. Call your local dealership and ask them. So be honest with me. As a hater does this hurt your feelings? Knowing you are in the minority I mean?

I disagree. I will most likely buy the car for what it is and will try to ignore the front, but that doesn't mean I love the design. In other words, your argument about the sales numbers is quite frankly invalid and false. And just because you say "it's true", it doesn't mean it is.

M3/M4's are always in demand. Add chip shortage, car shortage, increased demand as the pandemic is in the rear view mirror, and you end up with supply shortage that drives up the prices. My F80 is currently valued $5-10k more than what I could buy it from BMW Financial. Maybe that's because people hate the G80 and would rather have the F80!!?

At any rate, I think this conversation will never settle until we do an official Poll.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Encanto

My reasoning is that the closer in pricing the M3/4 gets to the M5/M8, the closer it will get to the depreciation curve that the M5/M8 has.

The M3 hasn't gotten any closer in pricing to the M5.

Do a quick comparison:

2010 M3 MSRP: $57,500 (adjusted for inflation in today's $ that's $70,985)
2021 M3 MSRP: $69,900

2010 M5 MSRP: $85,700 (adjusted for inflation in today's $ that's $105,798)
2021 M5 MSRP: $103,500

M5 is more expensive than the M3 by:
2010: $28,200
2021: $33,600

If anything the gap has INCREASED (which makes sense since inflation is a percentage and not a specific numerical value).

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I thought it would be implied that I was speaking in relative terms

No M car is a "mass appeal car". But relative from M car to M car, the point of the comparison was G8x to F8x. The G8x represents a more accessible car in terms of daily drivability due to the reasons mentioned, and as a result will likely sell more because you'll see a larger take rate among the non enthusiast community (you know, the "masses").

I also don't understand the pricing complaints. Adjusted for inflation it's very much in line with M3's of the past.

IMO, the M340i xDrive is made for this non-enthusiast community that you are talking about, in price and in performance. I get your point however, there was no F3x as close in performance and in pricing to the F8x as of now with the G2x and the G8x. Which is pushing the G8x prices higher proportionally to the F8x in its time.

Coming from 20+ years owning M3, this is different this time to me.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Encanto

IMO, the M340i xDrive is made for this non-enthusiast community that you are talking about, in price and in performance. I get your point however, there was no F3x as close in performance and in pricing to the F8x as of now with the G2x and the G8x. Which is pushing the G8x prices higher proportionally to the F8x in its time.

Coming from 20+ years owning M3, this is different this time to me.

Absolutely, which is why there will be more M340i's sold than M3's. But the point is not to compare the M3 to the M340i, it's to compare this M3 to M3's of the past. My point was this generation of M3 may sell more than previous generation of M3's because it has options which generally appeal more to the non-enthusiast community (torque converter auto and AWD, etc). So you'll get a higher take-rate among the non-enthusiast community which would have historically settled for the 340i or below simply because they found the M3 unapproachable from a drivability standpoint. Again, we're talking in relative terms, not absolute terms.

What'll be interesting to see is cannibalization of mid-tier G2x sales as a result of the more drivable nature of the G8x. While I'd assume most consumers are price sensitive, there's a few who are price insensitive to the extent that they can afford an M3 but may have in the past opted to go with a 340i or such.

In any case, I think it's a reasonable assumption that the more approachable nature of the G8x will result in increased sales outside the enthusiast community.

[e90post_user]

Originally Posted by Patton250

You got it. BMW and all of us that bought it are stupid and you are smart. Have you considered flying over to Munich, introducing yourself to the BMW engineers and letting them know what idiots they are and that you could show them how to design cars better than them? You never know they might go for it.

And just like that you resorted to insults - have a great day

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by PVC

I disagree. I will most likely buy the car for what it is and will try to ignore the front, but that doesn't mean I love the design. In other words, your argument about the sales numbers is quite frankly invalid and false. And just because you say "it's true", it doesn't mean it is.

M3/M4's are always in demand. Add chip shortage, car shortage, increased demand as the pandemic is in the rear view mirror, and you end up with supply shortage that drives up the prices. My F80 is currently valued $5-10k more than what I could buy it from BMW Financial. Maybe that's because people hate the G80 and would rather have the F80!!?

At any rate, I think this conversation will never settle until we do an official Poll.

I’m genuinely curious if you really believe what you wrote or are you just trying to convince yourself? Because let’s make pretend for a second you’re correct then every marketing person on Earth should just give up. There is no marketing anymore because according to you people just randomly by $90,000 items just because. Well maybe not randomly but as you said because of Covid this, the chips that, and the supply shortage doing the other thing.

Ok. Got it.

By the way an official pool here would be pointless. You’re welcome to try it but diehard BMW enthusiasts especially those who are emotionally tied to a 30 year old grille make up a tiny fraction of less then 1% of all the current and potential BMW buyers out there. So if you don’t believe that sales numbers (money spent on said products) are the ONLY true indication of whether a product is successful or not I can’t help you. Perhaps a course in sales and economics might help you? I don’t know. I mean that sincerely by the way with no sarcasm attached.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

The M3 hasn't gotten any closer in pricing to the M5.

Do a quick comparison:

2010 M3 MSRP: $57,500 (adjusted for inflation in today's $ that's $70,985)
2021 M3 MSRP: $69,900

2010 M5 MSRP: $85,700 (adjusted for inflation in today's $ that's $105,798)
2021 M5 MSRP: $103,500

M5 is more expensive than the M3 by:
2010: $28,200
2021: $33,600

If anything the gap has INCREASED (which makes sense since inflation is a percentage and not a specific numerical value).

You are correct. My M3 was fully loaded with absolutely everything and came out to 92K. The M5 I was strongly considering getting was also fully loaded and came out to 138K.