[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I appreciate your willingness to discuss this, but you aren't listening to/reading what I said. I'm giving you perspective from the front row and you're steady acting like I don't know what I'm talking about.....and your comprehension is lacking.

Your perspective is your perspective, no matter how you cut it. You are way off base implying that these writers have insufficient knowledge because they don't wear the badge; they often can go wider because of that. Some writers have scholarship you can't even dream of. Compre vu?

[mantis]

why are police trained to be apt to penalize the public instead of supporting it? instead of dealing with issues that are causes?

instead of drumming up revue with frivolous ticketing of the public, ie following to closely, and other lame assed tactics. time to dump these practices, and figure out new ones. quotas are bullshit

control only creates resolve, and resolve always wins.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

.... The article from Texas doesn't map it all out in black & white to apply to every union in every state. I articulated WHY that article is incorrect as it applies to my union (...and other unions in my state) and you elided over everything I said.

It's not always about you.
You should know that in your business.
Both articles go into ways that police unions are harmful to the communities they serve.
And I altered nothing you said.

PS: Can't cops & ex-cops use Obamacare, like so many citizens do?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Your perspective is your perspective, no matter how you cut it. You are way off base saying that these writers have insufficient knowledge because they don't wear the badge; they often can go wider because of that. Some writers have scholarship you can't even dream of. Compre vu?

When did I say that? You're pulling shit out of your ass.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by mantis

why are police trained to be apt to penalize the public instead of supporting it? instead of dealing with issues that are causes?

instead of drumming up revue with frivolous ticketing of the public, ie following to closely, and other lame assed tactics. time to dump these practices, and figure out new ones. quotas are bullshit

control only creates resolve, and resolve always wins.

We are paid to enforce laws. In contract cities it is THE CITIZENS that more or less tell us what they want enforced. When we are writing tickets in particular places, it's because it's either a high violation area or the city tells us they want enforcement for a particular thing. We don't have quotas. You must be one of those "lack of accountability" types. It's always the officer's fault you violated something and were cited.....never yours. Am I right?!?

[mantis]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

We are paid to enforce laws. In contract cities it is THE CITIZENS that more or less tell us what they want enforced. When we are writing tickets in particular places, it's because it's either a high violation area or the city tells us they want enforcement for a particular thing. We don't have quotas.

saying that law enforcement are not held to making numbers, is a blatant lie. The job is quantifiable, therefore processes are tracked and tallied, and departments must meet demands.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

When did I say that? You're pulling shit out of your ass.

You are correct, I meant to write "imply". So sorry.
" You are way off base implying that these writers... "

Can you understand now, & not go to shit?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by mantis

saying that law enforcement are not held to making numbers, is a blatant lie. The job is quantifiable, therefore processes are tracked and tallied, and departments must meet demands.

We don't have QUOTAS. Believe what you want.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

We don't have QUOTAS. Believe what you want.

Our chief is always happy when crime stats go DOWN :

I saw an email from CM to a resident who was in similar complaint mode. CM finished by saying Thanks for bringing this to my attention. It demonstrates what an excellent job our parking officers are doing

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Our chief is always happy when crime stats go DOWN :

I saw an email from CM to a resident who was in similar complaint mode. CM finished by saying Thanks for bringing this to my attention. It demonstrates what an excellent job our parking officers are doing

The Parking Police actually make $$ for NYC. Mayor Bloomberg loved them!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

You are correct, I meant to write "imply". So sorry.
" You are way off base implying that these writers... "

Can you understand now, & not go to shit?

When did I ever imply that?!? The only time I made mention about people making decisions who haven't worn the badge was with regards to us being defunded (...e.g. politicians, board of supervisors sitting high on the hog, etc.). That had absolutely nothing to do with writers and articles. Again, comprehension.

[mantis]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

We don't have QUOTAS. Believe what you want.

so every one that applies to be an officer, doesn't have to meet job any performance requirements? and cant be fired huh

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by mantis

so every one that applies to be an officer, doesn't have to meet job any performance requirements? and cant be fired huh

I have to justify my work with production, but that can be in the form of arrests (...guns, dope, domestic violence.....other observations, etc.). It doesn't have to be from writing tickets......or a specific amount of tickets, which is explicit (...e.g...a quota). Your understanding of police work is seemingly non-existent.

I have partners that rarely ever write tickets. In fact, Deputies on my department generally hate traffic enforcement. They'd much rather be cowboys and go catch gangsters.

[mantis]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I have to justify my work with production, but that can be in the form of arrests (...guns, dope, domestic violence.....other observations, etc.). It doesn't have to be from writing tickets. Your understanding of police work is non-existent.

as a contractor that does plenty or work for officers, i think i get the gist of what goes on.

so now that you have tried to take a shot at my knowledge, lets break down departments, and responsibilities

rookie beat officers are doing what? and are accountable for what?

detectives?

IA?

lets see how many other levels in between each of these? too many, and each has to meet demands of higher ups

[mantis]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I have to justify my work with production, but that can be in the form of arrests (...guns, dope, domestic violence.....other observations, etc.). It doesn't have to be from writing tickets......or a specific amount of tickets, which is explicit (...e.g...a quota). Your understanding of police work is seemingly non-existent.

I have partners that rarely ever write tickets. In fact, Deputies on my department generally hate traffic enforcement. They'd much rather be cowboys and go catch gangsters.

and this last statement, is the real shit. what gives officers the right to judge in the field? why do some get a warning and others a ticket? who oversees this bullshit practices of unjust judgement?
sounds like duty shirking in search of excitement?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by mantis

as a contractor that does plenty or work for officers, i think i get the gist of what goes on.

so now that you have tried to take a shot at my knowledge, lets break down departments, and responsibilities

rookie beat officers are doing what? and are accountable for what?

detectives?

IA?

lets see how many other levels in between each of these? too many, and each has to meet demands of higher ups

You being a contractor and knowing cops doesn't mean you understand all of the functions. That's not a slight aimed at you. Your position is common.

I'll simplify it because it's far too much to type. The higher up you move in patrol related functions, the more investigative you become (..e.g. a Detective follows up on line personnel arrests, performs stake outs, writes warrants, files cases with the DA, voir dire, etc.). The higher up you move in supervisor related functions, the more administrative you become.

[243Racing]

Originally Posted by Murf993

I suspect most cops have options and discretion. Not everyone likes to exercise them though.

Cherry-picking this old post.

I know a lot of people (including some forum members) have issues with discretion, because it can inevitably be construed as "playing favorites"

The thing about the law in the US - the great thing, in my opinion - is the difference between the 'letter of the law' and the 'spirit of the law'

Also, we have some weird unintended consequences - for example in Arizona, the penalties for reckless driving are ridiculously bad - but the reason for that is because you can get your first DUI kicked down to a reckless driving charge, so they upped the penalty for reckless. But with a good lawyer and enough money, I was able to get my ticket reduced from a reckless to a speeding and unsafe lane change.

People without the money or resources to discover that was an option would have done time and would have a criminal record. I suppose that's a bit unfair, but I wouldn't go so far as to call that "Racist"

Interested on your guys' thoughts on this. I know your job is enforcement, and stops once the suspect gets to court, but still.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by mantis

and this last statement, is the real shit. what gives officers the right to judge in the field? why do some get a warning and others a ticket? who oversees this bullshit practices of unjust judgement?
sounds like duty shirking in search of excitement?

There are only so many of us relative to the citizens we serve. I/we can't catch everybody. We have to choose somebody. There's no rhyme or reason.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by BeastieBombRacing

Cherry-picking this old post.

I know a lot of people (including some forum members) have issues with discretion, because it can inevitably be construed as "playing favorites"

The thing about the law in the US - the great thing, in my opinion - is the difference between the 'letter of the law' and the 'spirit of the law'

Also, we have some weird unintended consequences - for example in Arizona, the penalties for reckless driving are ridiculously bad - but the reason for that is because you can get your first DUI kicked down to a reckless driving charge, so they upped the penalty for reckless. But with a good lawyer and enough money, I was able to get my ticket reduced from a reckless to a speeding and unsafe lane change.

People without the money or resources to discover that was an option would have done time and would have a criminal record. I suppose that's a bit unfair, but I wouldn't go so far as to call that "Racist"

Interested on your guys' thoughts on this. I know your job is enforcement, and stops once the suspect gets to court, but still.

Many things go into account during a stop. Your attitude, record, egregiousness of the action, etc. are all considerations. DUI's, for example, are a problem and there's very little sympathy for someone who decides to drive while intoxicated or high on drugs. Some of our courts are zero tolerance and California is zero tolerance for minors.

In your case, how fast were you going to be cited for reckless driving? Here in California, 90+ mph will get you a reckless citation.

[UncleWede]

DA determines whether to file or not, the officer simply provides the details/facts. At least here where I live

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

DA determines whether to file or not, the officer simply provides the details/facts. At least here where I live

That's how it is here too.

[mantis]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

DA determines whether to file or not, the officer simply provides the details/facts. At least here where I live

our DAs are lazy corrupt fucks lining their pockets with cartel funds, tell me I'm wrong, and now with the Chinese in Mexico too, its become a real shit show