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      09-23-2020, 12:44 PM   #1
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Why not raise the redline to 7200 RPM for the 6MT?

We know the ZF torque converter is the reason for the maximum 7200 RPM due to gearbox oil cavitation.

Why can't the 6MT spin faster, such as 7600 RPM like the S55?
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      09-23-2020, 12:47 PM   #2
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Because everything comes at a cost, and the product planners concluded that the product would be less successful if the price tag were raised commensurately in accordance with the cost associated of developing a special version of the engine for the manual transmission.
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      09-24-2020, 02:53 AM   #3
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I've been theorizing that they would release a higher revving version with the manual version. I guess I was wrong. I don't think it'd require a new version of the engine. It would likely just be an engine tune since I know this engine has a horsepower rating of 473hp @ 5600-7300rpm.
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      09-24-2020, 05:01 AM   #4
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same reason they detune manual -100Nm. I do not understand.
Anyways I'm in for the new experience, I had damaged my N55 in a single trackday and had to go for a used bottom end.

this time I'm going for a manual drive as this won't be my daily anyway.
I want something more pleasant than every PDK 911 on the road.

If I ever need more torque, A tune will probably be done on my car. and also remove the speedlimiter so won't bother with MDrivers Package.
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      09-24-2020, 08:09 AM   #5
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If you look at the s58 technical documents that came out with the x3m, it specifically states that's redline for auto is 7200 and for manual is 7500.

I'm thinking the published 7200 rpm redline for 6mt m3/4 is an error and it's really 7500. Pull up the s58 technical documents and you'll see it says 7500 for 6mt
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      09-24-2020, 08:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
I don't think it'd require a new version of the engine. It would likely just be an engine tune since I know this engine has a horsepower rating of 473hp @ 5600-7300rpm.
Speculatively, sure. Regardless of how you get there, you're adding cost to the development of the vehicle. Particularly since the MT car is the entry model, it is absolutely no surprise they would avoid spending any extra money on it.

Also, it can't be said with any certainty that the internal components have been spec'd to handle 7600RPM. While it's not likely that the small increase would cause any harm to the engine (for example, if done via an aftermarket tune), it may still be out-of-spec for some rotating assembly or valve train parts.
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      09-24-2020, 06:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Speculatively, sure. Regardless of how you get there, you're adding cost to the development of the vehicle. Particularly since the MT car is the entry model, it is absolutely no surprise they would avoid spending any extra money on it.

Also, it can't be said with any certainty that the internal components have been spec'd to handle 7600RPM. While it's not likely that the small increase would cause any harm to the engine (for example, if done via an aftermarket tune), it may still be out-of-spec for some rotating assembly or valve train parts.
Does M stand for ///Maximum cost cutting?
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      09-24-2020, 06:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Does M stand for ///Maximum cost cutting?
Compete nonsense. They spent the money to develop the MT car in the first place while their main competitors quit. That's the exact opposite of cost cutting.

Additional note: Sometimes there’s more going on than meets the eye, and this thread was originally locked for a good reason (after removing blatant bashing in order to address the underlying question). Unfortunately, some individuals who have no intention of purchasing the vehicle are taking any opportunity to incessantly troll and disparage it.
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      09-24-2020, 06:54 PM   #9
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Best buy a Porsche if you really want a high revving manual
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      09-25-2020, 05:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new2the3 View Post
If you look at the s58 technical documents that came out with the x3m, it specifically states that's redline for auto is 7200 and for manual is 7500.

I'm thinking the published 7200 rpm redline for 6mt m3/4 is an error and it's really 7500. Pull up the s58 technical documents and you'll see it says 7500 for 6mt
Yep I remember this as well. So we'll find out pretty soon! If it is electronically limited for consistency reasons I am sure this will be an easy software fix. I am not sure how much hp development is left in those last 300rpm though.
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      09-25-2020, 07:49 PM   #11
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We'll see if the 6MT is completely "redeveloped" or they are simply reusing what was available in F8x/F1x era. Maximum torque rating (406 ft lbs) is identical, though it makes max power at higher rpm range (1800-5500 vs 2650-6130rpm), so on paper it just appears to be an engine tweak with some hybrid-prep gimmicks.
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      09-25-2020, 09:43 PM   #12
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They could have kept 550nm all the way to 6500rpm to have the manual make 375kw from 6500rpm to 7200rpm like the 8AT, that would have been a lot of fun I think. What is also interesting is the power drop off showing on the 6MT once you get to 7000rpm whereas the 8AT holds power to 7200rpm (which makes NO sense)

Details in the specs page, the M3 power and torque curve is for the 6MT, the M4 is the 8AT

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...ion-coup%C3%A9
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      09-25-2020, 10:00 PM   #13
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They need the 6MT for the G87 series so really it’s a cost sharing exercise to have the 6MT in the G80/82.

Without the 6MT in the G87 or the G80/82, bean counters may not approve the business case for a 6MT model.
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      09-26-2020, 01:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Compete nonsense. They spent the money to develop the MT car in the first place while their main competitors quit. That's the exact opposite of cost cutting.
I disagreed it's all about profit and BMW don't want to spend money on R&D for new MT, still stuck at 6MT where Porsche already moved to 7MT on new 992.There is no MT offer on G series at all, Is BMW heading to the right direction?
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      09-30-2020, 01:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni View Post
I disagreed it's all about profit and BMW don't want to spend money on R&D for new MT, still stuck at 6MT where Porsche already moved to 7MT on new 992.There is no MT offer on G series at all, Is BMW heading to the right direction?
You can get several G series with 6MT including the G20, just not in the US, cause BMW only mates them to the lower tiers (the highest power non-M G series 6MT is the Z4 20i I think).
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      09-30-2020, 01:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni View Post
I disagreed it's all about profit and BMW don't want to spend money on R&D for new MT, still stuck at 6MT where Porsche already moved to 7MT on new 992.There is no MT offer on G series at all, Is BMW heading to the right direction?
The 7 speeds are not progress, they are merely something to confuse the feeble minded and get better consumption

Porsche puts their 6 speeds in their GT cars, no 7 speeds there.

There is no 7 speed in cars that brings the driving experience forward. The one in the C7 Vette is also garbage

I'm happy BMW has stuck with the 6MT that works well and not plagued us with a shifter where you mistake 5th for 7th like other cases

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 09-30-2020 at 02:09 PM..
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      09-30-2020, 04:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
The 7 speeds are not progress, they are merely something to confuse the feeble minded and get better consumption

Porsche puts their 6 speeds in their GT cars, no 7 speeds there.

There is no 7 speed in cars that brings the driving experience forward. The one in the C7 Vette is also garbage

I'm happy BMW has stuck with the 6MT that works well and not plagued us with a shifter where you mistake 5th for 7th like other cases
Man you seem to have serious issues with lowering emissions. Or I mean “imposing on freedom”.

Better consumption is the compelling reason for the extra gear.
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      09-30-2020, 04:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Man you seem to have serious issues with lowering emissions. Or I mean “imposing on freedom”.

Better consumption is the compelling reason for the extra gear.
I prefer a proven 6MT than a 7MT that does not function correctly. One of the worst things you can have in transmissions is two gears that get confused between themselves as that is the path to a money shift.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 09-30-2020 at 04:25 PM..
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      09-30-2020, 08:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I prefer a proven 6MT than a 7MT that does not function correctly. One of the worst things you can have in transmissions is two gears that get confused between themselves as that is the path to a money shift.
The F80 6MT is not very good. Rubbery is the term that comes to mind when I think about it. Porsche manual transmissions on the other hand. Drool.
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      09-30-2020, 11:26 PM   #20
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Given a similar size gearbox a 6MT would be stronger than a 7MT because the gears on a 6MT are physically thicker. The extra set of gears on a 7MT robs space so generally the gear sets are physically thinner. I remembered back in Group N rallying and drags people op for 5MT on the Evos and STis because they ate physically stronger (running thicker gears) than the 6MT
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      10-01-2020, 08:11 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robopp View Post
The F80 6MT is not very good. Rubbery is the term that comes to mind when I think about it. Porsche manual transmissions on the other hand. Drool.
But the F80 6MT is a proven solution. The feel can be improved substantially with something simple like the Autosolutions SSK.

I've driven the 6MT in Porsche, the 997.2 GT3 and the 991.2 GT3. It is nice. I don't recall comparing them in my post at any time.
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      10-01-2020, 08:31 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Because everything comes at a cost, and the product planners concluded that the product would be less successful if the price tag were raised commensurately in accordance with the cost associated of developing a special version of the engine for the manual transmission.
Is it really a different version of the engine if all that's changed is the redline? I guess if you get into the nitty gritty...
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