[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Are you even paying attention to the EPA and state bans? .

You mean on banning ICE? LOL if you actually believe that is happening.

Again, how much experience do you have towing with an EV? I have none but I have a friend with a lot of towing experience who has owned two different EV pickups and towed with them. I trust him. Are they as good? no. Do they work? Sure.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

You mean on banning ICE? LOL if you actually believe that is happening.

Again, how much experience do you have towing with an EV? I have none but I have a friend with a lot of towing experience who has owned two different EV pickups and towed with them. I trust him. Are they as good? no. Do they work? Sure.

So, you're not actually paying attention.

I'll believe the people who took the time to put a youtube up showing the range fade faster than a lefty exposed to facts. I still remember the guy from Winnipeg who wasn't even towing and couldn't make it to the Wisconsin Dells. He literally had to abandon it and rent an ICE to finish the trip.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

So, you're not actually paying attention.

I'll believe the people who took the time to put a youtube up showing the range fade faster than a lefty exposed to facts. I still remember the guy from Winnipeg who wasn't even towing and couldn't make it to the Wisconsin Dells. He literally had to abandon it and rent an ICE to finish the trip.

So much FUD. I’m done.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

So much FUD. I’m done.

That's what the guy from Winnipeg said.

[Straykiwi]

My 2c is that all Tesla/Musk politics aside the CT looks like a cheap prop from an 70's sci fi TV show.

And just as well made...

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

That's what the guy from Winnipeg said.

User error. 90% of vehicles sold in Norway were EV’s. Think it doesn’t get cold there? Yet the idiot who runs out in the US tries to take down an industry rather than admitting he was dumb. Or am I thinking of someone else?

Either way…it’s entirely doable. Again, FUD.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

User error. 90% of vehicles sold in Norway were EV’s. Think it doesn’t get cold there? Yet the idiot who runs out in the US tries to take down an industry rather than admitting he was dumb. Or am I thinking of someone else?

Either way…it’s entirely doable. Again, FUD.

Norway, LOL, 5.5 million people. The government used the countries literal ocean of oil dollars to literally make it impossible NOT to buy an EV.

You really haven't looked at the math in the USA have you?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Norway, LOL, 5.5 million people. The government used the countries literal ocean of oil dollars to literally make it impossible NOT to buy an EV.

You really haven't looked at the math in the USA have you?

You’re changing the argument. Never said nothing about the government forcing them to buy an EV. Nir are we discussing any kind of math. You brought up an example of a guy getting stranded in winter weather. I’m telling you that is one isolated, highly publicized incident by people who don’t want to see EV’s work. I know countless people who use EV’s in inclement weather and tow, sometimes even at the same time. It’s simply not a problem of you open your brain and think for 2 seconds and plan.

Period. Thats my only point. It’s very clear you have a bone to pick with the way the government is mandating EV’s and are trying to discredit them by painting with broad brush strokes. It’s a little more nuanced than that. But people can’t allow themselves to have an open mind because they want to yell at the government. EV’s simply cannot be adopted in the way governments think they can without massive infrastructure improvement. And even then there will be impediments. However that doesn’t mean EV’s are actually that crippled. Far, far from it. I’m sorry if you can’t understand what they can and cannot do.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

You’re changing the argument. Never said nothing about the government forcing them to buy an EV. Nir are we discussing any kind of math. You brought up an example of a guy getting stranded in winter weather. I’m telling you that is one isolated, highly publicized incident by people who don’t want to see EV’s work. I know countless people who use EV’s in inclement weather and tow, sometimes even at the same time. It’s simply not a problem of you open your brain and think for 2 seconds and plan.

Period. Thats my only point. It’s very clear you have a bone to pick with the way the government is mandating EV’s and are trying to discredit them by painting with broad brush strokes. It’s a little more nuanced than that. But people can’t allow themselves to have an open mind because they want to yell at the government. EV’s simply cannot be adopted in the way governments think they can without massive infrastructure improvement. And even then there will be impediments. However that doesn’t mean EV’s are actually that crippled. Far, far from it. I’m sorry if you can’t understand what they can and cannot do.

There are many many examples of EV's not working in cold weather. Why are you shocked that an EV battery that uses power to heat itself would have trouble in cold temperatures for people that do not have heated indoor parking? Norway made it possible to drive EV's in a cold winter by dumping massive amounts of oil money onto a small infrastructure.

[Weather Man]

Yeah, that 4MPH limp mode merging would not be swell as in get you killed in a lot of metro's.

[Needsdecaf]

Clickbait FUD. Next.

[Needsdecaf]

Hey look! An EV towing a 10,000 total load of a 7,000 lb truck plus trailer in 36 degree weather. And it didn’t break down.

Must be fake video since we all know EV’s can’t tow and don’t work in the cold.

[kgelfen360]

There were reports of people going on vacation leaving Tesla at airport in Chicago and coming back to the car that is completely dead and won’t charge.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/16/news/c...bots-out-here/

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Hey look! An EV towing a 10,000 total load of a 7,000 lb truck plus trailer in 36 degree weather. And it didn’t break down.

Must be fake video since we all know EV’s can’t tow and don’t work in the cold.

No one says you can't hook a trailer up. You just can't hook a trailer up and do anything meaningful compared to a ICE pickup. Unless, you have a weak bladder and enjoy sitting at EV chargers, which aren't set up for people towing, so you also must love disconnecting and connecting your trailer over and over.

[Needsdecaf]

Got it. So goalposts moved, again. You say, won’t work in cold, can’t town anything meaningful. I just showed you a video of an EV towing 10,000 lbs, for a duration, in cold weather over hills. So you shift the goalposts to charging times.

I’m done.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Got it. So goalposts moved, again. You say, won’t work in cold, can’t town anything meaningful. I just showed you a video of an EV towing 10,000 lbs, for a duration, in cold weather over hills. So you shift the goalposts to charging times.

I’m done.

You're mad that that I pointed out an EV truck with a monster carbon bomb battery can tow 100 miles, needs charging at chargers not made for people towing. I'd be done too with those facts on my side. It will have awesome Green cred with the soccer moms!

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

You're mad that that I pointed out an EV truck with a monster carbon bomb battery can tow 100 miles, needs charging at chargers not made for people towing. I'd be done too with those facts on my side. It will have awesome Green cred with the soccer moms!

Mad? No, I'm not mad. Sad is what I am. Sad that people today are so desperate to cling to what they think is right that they chose to ignore solid evidence placed in front of them just to they can not have to admit they are wrong.

I will say something that will probably shock you. I will be the first one to say that EV's aren't for everyone. Not only that, but I believe that many people who could very easily drive an EV shouldn't drive one. In fact I have told people not to drive EV's even though I know their lifestyle could have easily supported them. Because they require thought and basic math. You can't simply operate them in the way you do an ICE, without zero f*cks given. Because you can't recharge the battery in 5 minutes on every corner. You have to have an early adopter, pioneer spirit to want to own one now.

But the fact is the math isn't hard and while the learning curve is steep, it's pretty short. And once you're past that, it's very easy to live with. But people don't want to.

The other reason that not everyone can live with an EV is genuinely because they don't fit every use case. As you said, if you tow a lot, long distance, than an EV is not for you. But you know what? That's not unique at all. A 9 passenger commercial van isn't right for me driving to and from work by myself. A Porsche Boxster isn't right for a family of 7. And even with trucks...a Ford Maverick isn't right for someone who pulls a 7,000 pound trailer every day likewise a F350 dually isn't right for someone who tows a 7,500 jetski trailer 10 times a summer.

Doesn't stop people from buying them though.

So instead of realizing there are shades of gray, you're so anti-EV you can't see any use case and use all the tired tropes that people bring out about EV's. Only one of which, the issue with charging timing and location, has any truth. Every other one is false or grossly overblown. Let's see, in this thread you've told me:

EV trucks can't tow anything significant. I send you videos of trucks towing a 10,000 pound trailer up and over a mountain pass.

EV's don't work in cold. That mountain pass was 36 degrees.

EV's only work in cold in Norway where they have used oil money to build infrastructure. That mountain pass was in the Rockies, where chargers are few and far between and done by 4 trucks (Lightning, Rivian, Silverado and Cybertruck) none of which broke down, was stranded, etc.

Batteries are "carbon bombs" as you call them....an EV emits total wheel to well greenhouse gases less than an ICE between 2-5 years on the road depending on use and how much energy comes from fossil fuels. And the average lifespan of a vehicle on the road is far, far beyond that.

It's a pain to have to charge often.....now you finally got to one that's truthful. But that's changing.

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Generally speaking, EV owners who buy top of food chain expensive EV's don't like being reminded of the horrible quality, number of people in the Congo who died mining the Cobalt for it or that its fuel economy is the same as the power plant supplying the electrons minus transmission losses or the massive amount of carbon expended in mining the massive number of elements required to assemble said carbon bomb. Oh, and that it can't tow shit anywhere meaningful. Other than that, it's a great truck if you enjoy 3rd grade design brought to life.

Let's see. Not all expensive EV's have horrible quality, just Tesla. The "children mining" thing is well recognized and already being phased out. Iron phosphate use no precious metals, are able to be charged to 100% and sit there and are cheaper. They are just heavier. Massive amount of carbon for the "carbon bomb" isn't any more significant than the mining for the raw materials in an ICE car. The power plant, even if fed by 100% by coal, is still more efficient well to wheel, it just extends the breakeven point.

I agree with you on the third grade design. The Cybertruck is ugly and stupid.


So yeah, I'm not mad. I'm genuinely sad when I see people so close minded because something is outside of their realm of understanding or comfort level or whatever. I get that you're mad at politicians for pushing this narrative but I don't care, because I know what they are asking for isn't possible from a technical standpoint. But I have the benefit of that knowledge because I've been involved in infrastructure development for over 25 years and have a solid working of EV's and the automotive industry in general and I can tell you that you don't need to say one thing negative. Even if every single person said "yes, we want EV's now" the infrastructure can't keep up and it will be a multi-generational shift to have a mass adoption to EV's. The market will sort itself out.

But in the meantime, by all means, keep repeating falsehoods to make yourself feel better about EV's.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Mad? No, I'm not mad. Sad is what I am. Sad that people today are so desperate to cling to what they think is right that they chose to ignore solid evidence placed in front of them just to they can not have to admit they are wrong.

I will say something that will probably shock you. I will be the first one to say that EV's aren't for everyone. Not only that, but I believe that many people who could very easily drive an EV shouldn't drive one. In fact I have told people not to drive EV's even though I know their lifestyle could have easily supported them. Because they require thought and basic math. You can't simply operate them in the way you do an ICE, without zero f*cks given. Because you can't recharge the battery in 5 minutes on every corner. You have to have an early adopter, pioneer spirit to want to own one now.

But the fact is the math isn't hard and while the learning curve is steep, it's pretty short. And once you're past that, it's very easy to live with. But people don't want to.

The other reason that not everyone can live with an EV is genuinely because they don't fit every use case. As you said, if you tow a lot, long distance, than an EV is not for you. But you know what? That's not unique at all. A 9 passenger commercial van isn't right for me driving to and from work by myself. A Porsche Boxster isn't right for a family of 7. And even with trucks...a Ford Maverick isn't right for someone who pulls a 7,000 pound trailer every day likewise a F350 dually isn't right for someone who tows a 7,500 jetski trailer 10 times a summer.

Doesn't stop people from buying them though.

So instead of realizing there are shades of gray, you're so anti-EV you can't see any use case and use all the tired tropes that people bring out about EV's. Only one of which, the issue with charging timing and location, has any truth. Every other one is false or grossly overblown. Let's see, in this thread you've told me:

EV trucks can't tow anything significant. I send you videos of trucks towing a 10,000 pound trailer up and over a mountain pass.

EV's don't work in cold. That mountain pass was 36 degrees.

EV's only work in cold in Norway where they have used oil money to build infrastructure. That mountain pass was in the Rockies, where chargers are few and far between and done by 4 trucks (Lightning, Rivian, Silverado and Cybertruck) none of which broke down, was stranded, etc.

Batteries are "carbon bombs" as you call them....an EV emits total wheel to well greenhouse gases less than an ICE between 2-5 years on the road depending on use and how much energy comes from fossil fuels. And the average lifespan of a vehicle on the road is far, far beyond that.

It's a pain to have to charge often.....now you finally got to one that's truthful. But that's changing.



Let's see. Not all expensive EV's have horrible quality, just Tesla. The "children mining" thing is well recognized and already being phased out. Iron phosphate use no precious metals, are able to be charged to 100% and sit there and are cheaper. They are just heavier. Massive amount of carbon for the "carbon bomb" isn't any more significant than the mining for the raw materials in an ICE car. The power plant, even if fed by 100% by coal, is still more efficient well to wheel, it just extends the breakeven point.

I agree with you on the third grade design. The Cybertruck is ugly and stupid.


So yeah, I'm not mad. I'm genuinely sad when I see people so close minded because something is outside of their realm of understanding or comfort level or whatever. I get that you're mad at politicians for pushing this narrative but I don't care, because I know what they are asking for isn't possible from a technical standpoint. But I have the benefit of that knowledge because I've been involved in infrastructure development for over 25 years and have a solid working of EV's and the automotive industry in general and I can tell you that you don't need to say one thing negative. Even if every single person said "yes, we want EV's now" the infrastructure can't keep up and it will be a multi-generational shift to have a mass adoption to EV's. The market will sort itself out.

But in the meantime, by all means, keep repeating falsehoods to make yourself feel better about EV's.

Here's the problem, the EPA and EU-EPA will force 90% of ICE off the road by 2029 or earlier depending on additional rule making based on a LIE. That LIE is that EV's are good for the environment. That LIE will cause massive suffering, and massive cost to everyday people. Your coal powerplant example has already been DEBUNKED by no less than the DOE itself. Talk about falsehood. Your mining "fact" has been DEBUNKED as a flat out lie as the number of strip mines required to make EV's for everyone is literally impossible. The elements required require an increase in mining that has NEVER been done before. I'm sure the kids being cobalt poisoned in the Congo are pleased with your "expertise".

The Green Insanity is literally counting on making EV's "fait accompli" by having people who KNOW it won't work stay silent.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Here's the problem, the EPA and EU-EPA will force 90% of ICE off the road by 2029 or earlier depending on additional rule making based on a LIE. That LIE is that EV's are good for the environment. That LIE will cause massive suffering, and massive cost to everyday people. Your coal powerplant example has already been DEBUNKED by no less than the DOE itself. Talk about falsehood. Your mining "fact" has been DEBUNKED as a flat out lie as the number of strip mines required to make EV's for everyone is literally impossible. The elements required require an increase in mining that has NEVER been done before. I'm sure the kids being cobalt poisoned in the Congo are pleased with your "expertise".

The Green Insanity is literally counting on making EV's "fait accompli" by having people who KNOW it won't work stay silent.

You seem very passionate about this issue. Have you written letters to your local representatives expressing your thoughts or organized a community rally?

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by FC4

You seem very passionate about this issue. Have you written letters to your local representatives expressing your thoughts or organized a community rally?

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

It's not a laughing matter.

The most informed environmental scientists have proven that EVs are actually detrimental to the environment. Burning coal to create electricity, destroying the Earth to mine rare minerals, battery disposal, etc. It's all a mess, and it's clear that EVs are not green at all. Obviously, big oil is behind all of it and they've fooled everyone...except for those in the know.

Be the agent of change. Don't let them win. Write the letter. Mother Earth will thank you.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by FC4

It's not a laughing matter.

The most informed environmental scientists have proven that EVs are actually detrimental to the environment. Burning coal to create electricity, destroying the Earth to mine rare minerals, battery disposal, etc. It's all a mess, and it's clear that EVs are not green at all. Obviously, big oil is behind all of it and they've fooled everyone...except for those in the know.

Be the agent of change. Don't let them win. Write the letter. Mother Earth will thank you.

The Green Insanity is a core pillar of the left. The left votes as a monolithic block. Research in the USA is bought and paid for by Federal grants controlled by the left. It is ironic that reputable research now comes from everywhere but the USA when it involves anything political. Why you would think big oil is behind demand destruction, I'm not sure.