[PLF69]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

Losing the back seats is as much about optimizing suspension tuning as it is about removing the weight. Same reason why Porsche didn't add seats for the GT3 touring and why BMW removed the rear centre seat on the M5 CS.

The spring rates and shock tuning need to accommodate a car being fully loaded. There's a big difference between engineering a car to have 2 vs 4 occupants.

Finally some intelligent discussion. If I recall correctly the CSL is supposed to come with helper springs, bigger sway bars, stiffer bushings, stiffer transmission mounts and obviously retuned suspension damping, springs and software. All of wich is probritary to the CSL (for now) I don't know what can be more special ? Gold plated knuckles?

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Good point. The weight you cite is shocking.

That's what the part weight is listed on several BMW part cites. Maybe it weighs less in the G series generation or includes packing material. But it's still a ton of weight.

Since the HUD is an option in the EU CSL but standard in the US CSL, maybe that's the reason that EU PR says 1525 kg (which is 3582 pounds) but the US PR says the weight is 3640 pounds?

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Finally some intelligent discussion. If I recall correctly the CSL is supposed to come with helper springs, bigger sway bars, stiffer bushings, stiffer transmission mounts and obviously retuned suspension damping, springs and software. All of wich is probritary to the CSL (for now) I don't know what can be more special ? Gold plated knuckles?

It don't believe the "helper springs" are exclusive to the CSL..

The G20 and I assume the G8X has something similar that accomplishes the same task..

This seems to be CSL technical marketing polished up to sound more efficient and bespoke..

https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering...ing-1830257906

[Hit_Apex]

Helper springs are only on the CSL. They are not any breakthrough technology and many racing coilovers use them. What you posted above refers to spring damping - compression and rebound tuning that controls the spring. There is a lot in the PR to minimalize, but the lower, stiffer, tuned suspension is hardly the lowest hanging fruit.

[G30 B58]

I dig the headrest removal to accomodate a helmet and the helmet net.

10/10 both will NEVER get used by more than 5 total M4 CSL buyers.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Helper springs are only on the CSL. They are not any breakthrough technology and many racing coilovers use them. What you posted above refers to spring damping - compression and rebound tuning that controls the spring. There is a lot in the PR to minimalize, but the lower, stiffer, tuned suspension is hardly the lowest hanging fruit.

Thanks for the clarification, they sounded like they served the same purpose but now that I see a photo of them side by side, "helper springs" are obviously different.. Not that it seems like it would make much of a difference other than less bottoming out, at the cost of ride comfort.

.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by G30 B58

10/10 both will NEVER get used by more than 5 total M4 CSL buyers.

We could make a pole with pictures as proof

[mzwerner]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Yeah, I personally hate HUDs and think it should have been deleted from the M5 CS as well. I don't know why these aren't removed on these special performance models. It's not like they need to manufacture a new dash, you can order a base M4 without a HUD.

To each his own. Ive had HUDs in my last two cars F90 and G82 and I love them. In fact I won't even consider a car without one.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by mzwerner

To each his own. Ive had HUDs in my last two cars F90 and G82 and I love them. I fact I'll won't even consider a car without one.

I am also partial now that I had the BMW Hud in 2 cars, it's really good, the nav graphics are clear, scrolling through music is easy and when you have driver assistant pro it's really useful.

If it would of been removed from the CSL I'd been perfectly fine with it for an occasion car like this but it's nice to have so I won't complain.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by mzwerner

To each his own. Ive had HUDs in my last two cars F90 and G82 and I love them. I fact I'll won't even consider a car without one.

Then BMW knows their customers well. You are probably in the majority and most buyers want the car with a HUD.

Might also be a sign that BMW expects people to use this car and that it's a good street car.

But it is a big source of weight.

[mzwerner]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Then BMW knows their customers well. You are probably in the majority and most buyers want the car with a HUD.

Might also be a sign that BMW expects people to use this car and that it's a good street car.

But it is a big source of weight.

No doubt on the added weight. Yeah my G82 is my daily driver, so she'll get some mileage on her.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Chris Brow is a great presenter, but in this video mispronounced "alloy" and "nurburgring" (he said, Nur-Borg-ring).

He's is an avid Trekkie

[bandersen]

Originally Posted by MDM

No kidding? I know what the objective is. I'm just saying for the money the car just isn't unique enough physically nor performance wise. Plus I raise an eyebrow when BMW puts out these performance numbers say like on their CS models....With no tune I can consistently match or sometimes better the M5CS in out right straight line performance with my M8C spec with M carbon seats and brakes. Handling wise I'm sure the M5CS will edge out the M8C. When it comes to the M4CSL I strongly believe there should be more customer customization allowed/available for the money.

No kidding? I know what the objective is os. [/QUOTE]

Because you're such a genius?

I love internet b boards. Probably wears his collars up, too.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

That's what the part weight is listed on several BMW part cites. Maybe it weighs less in the G series generation or includes packing material. But it's still a ton of weight.

Since the HUD is an option in the EU CSL but standard in the US CSL, maybe that's the reason that EU PR says 1525 kg (which is 3582 pounds) but the US PR says the weight is 3640 pounds?

I believe the Australian version didn't have HUD but stand to be corrected on that

[bmrm396]

Originally Posted by MDM

This car is only halfway complete when compared to a Porsche.

Aren't they all? Lol

[kyleb350]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Well, the E46 CSL saved 110 kg just like this one, but starting from 1500kg (-7.5%), not 1730 kg (-6.5%) and keeping the rear seats (just like the 3.0 CSL). Maybe they did the best they could, but I can't say it's a great achievement.
It has lost much of its versatility, not yet being a true sports car

Can you go back another 10 years and compare that to the E30 Evo then? It's another 150ish kilos lighter than the E46 CSL. Be it safety standards or consumer taste, it's hard to avoid the extra weight. At least they've given us proportional power increases.

[P1]

Serious question: does the CSL only come in the AutoZone version as we see presented in this video, or can you order it a bit more subdued?

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Losing the back seats means they should have also deleted other things (like Remote Engine Start, Heads up Display, Comfort Access, Wireless Charging Pad, Active Driving Assistant). If they did that, and lost the back seats, i could totally subscribe to it being a true CSL. Having comfort features like that seems to totally miss the point in my opinion, and means they just tried to hit 100kg weight reduction and not actually take out all of the essentials.

The weight of an F-series HUD display is a 139 pounds. Comfort Access aerials weigh 1.2 pounds. Wireless charging pads weigh about 1 pound.

But the HUD being in the car is a big one and very very strange to me.

As you mention downthread, that's a marketing/business decision by BMWNA, not an engineering decision by M, I think it would've been prudent to point that out from the beginning.

Same for wireless charging, comfort access, parking assistant and driving assistant - those are all options in other markets.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by P1

Serious question: does the CSL only come in the AutoZone version as we see presented in this video, or can you order it a bit more subdued?

Yes you can, this is the most subdued color scheme.

[KevinM]

Not sure why anyone is hating on this. M didn't need to produce this car, but they did. At 1000 units available, this car is not about profits. BMW doesn't control dealer mark-ups, nor is that a BMW-specific issue.

As someone who does not currently track my cars, I am not the target audience. But I commend M for building it.

My only gripe is the lack of a MT option, but I'm getting used to that reality.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by kyleb350

Can you go back another 10 years and compare that to the E30 Evo then? It's another 150ish kilos lighter than the E46 CSL. Be it safety standards or consumer taste, it's hard to avoid the extra weight. At least they've given us proportional power increases.

Sure, but unfortunately power can do nothing against physics when it comes time to turn or brake, which explains the 'poor' time at the Ring.
Looking at the times of the E46s, the old CSL matched the time of the 996 GT3 (both with semi-slicks), this fat M4 with Cup2R is slightly faster than a Carrera S with street tires and 100hp less, while the GT3 jumped to a completely different level.
The size and safety net have also increased on Porsches, but it seems that only BMWs have gained that much weight.
As someone said above, this is a factory tune and decal package, the old ones tasted more like special cars.

[Bumper2Bumper]

Def feel like they missed the mark on this one. Maybe left room for a better GTR like model in the years to come. But this does not have anything I NEED over the regular M3CX.