[Krisp97]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Lol, having the king of idler and tensioner pulleys engine (ie Audi’s supercharged 3.0) in my S4, I can tell you I’ve spent some quality time with my front end in service mode fixing this same type of issue in the past. Let’s just say that when you go with higher crank pulley sizes to make more power, changing the accessory belt becomes a dance of loosing tensioners enough to swing completely out the way so you can remove or partially remove an idler behind them to be able to slip that belt off. Yeah, fun. It’s been my findings that steady squealing that doesn’t change intonation much is usually a static mounted idler and if there any kind of wha wha intonation affect to the sound it’ll usually be the tensioner, which depending on spring tension health can deflect quite a bit as you rev the engine either a little or a lot. Either way, the issue is the bearing in them and nothing more. On the S58, since it’s just one small belt and package, loosen the tensioner, take the belt off to reduce drag and spin either pulley by hand. The problem one will usually make a small mouse sound as you spin it back and forth or it’ll feel a tiny bit gritty on the spin.

Now imagine having this sound constantly and be RPM based… had that happen in a WRX years ago and it was one of the guide/idler pulleys for the timing belt. That was fun getting the dealership to trust what I was saying and to just dig in there and find the goofy one. First time they’d seen that. Lol

I wouldve imagined diagnosing it wouldve been that easy but it wasnt as mine was temperature based and also something to do with relative humidity. Glad this is over.

[GabesSlowM4]

Will do boys! My car is still in the shop as we speak but my SA and techs have been very cool. I've even showed them bits of this thread. They're using it as a reference point. Unfortunately they're required to do the repairs in step before the deflection pulley but said they will replace if they have too. I'll ask them about a service bulletin!

[Krisp97]

Originally Posted by GabesSlowM4

Will do boys! My car is still in the shop as we speak but my SA and techs have been very cool. I've even showed them bits of this thread. They're using it as a reference point. Unfortunately they're required to do the repairs in step before the deflection pulley but said they will replace if they have too. I'll ask them about a service bulletin!

That is perfect, I wanted to track this repair and update this forum as a reference point as I do not believe there is currently a TSB at this time, although in Canada there appears to be something pertaining to this issue.

My service team was great too although they had not heard much of this issue. They had been in contact with engineering a year ago about it but I was probably one of the first handful to actually bring it to a service center as most had not posted anything about it at the time!

I really hope a TSB gets sent out because this has been so bad in my case that it has hindered enjoyment of the car during the winter lol so I do not want anyone else to spend a year getting this fixed like I did

[SwankPeRFection]

If there’s one in Canada, what’s the number?

[Krisp97]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

If there’s one in Canada, what’s the number?

The guy that posted his RO that had the long typed out paragraph lives in Canada, the technician wrote on that RO that it was "Measure 65514155".

I do not know what the term measure means when compared to a TSB, but I would guess something is getting close to being published as they were able to diagnose and fix mine quickly this time (In USA). They opened a TSARA case and they were instructed pretty quickly to replace the deflection pulley.

Someone on another post who lives in Canada said the deflection pulley their dealer ordered for their vehicle was on backorder.

[GabesSlowM4]

Originally Posted by Krisp97

The guy that posted his RO that had the long typed out paragraph lives in Canada, the technician wrote on that RO that it was "Measure 65514155".

I do not know what the term measure means when compared to a TSB, but I would guess something is getting close to being published as they were able to diagnose and fix mine quickly this time (In USA). They opened a TSARA case and they were instructed pretty quickly to replace the deflection pulley.

Someone on another post who lives in Canada said the deflection pulley their dealer ordered for their vehicle was on backorder.

When taking my car in I gave them this number. The employee who wrote the number had no idea what this was and said it wasn't a TSB. However the tech and SA both used it to determine where to look. So my guess is that we're near a TSB if they both used it as a point to start repairs and determine the next steps. My belt should be replaced later today. From there they'll try to replicate the issue and determine if a deflection pulley needs to ordered and replaced.

[SwankPeRFection]

Waiting on TSB poster guy on here to do some digging on that number and see what he finds out and can post. Just FYI.

[ObsessedM3C]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Waiting on TSB poster guy on here to do some digging on that number and see what he finds out and can post. Just FYI.

tsb is the american term. if you’re in canada and search up that number its all there. couldnt get much info for you boys but the video link has the tech talking a bit about it and the RO is fairly detailed.

[Krisp97]

Originally Posted by GabesSlowM4

When taking my car in I gave them this number. The employee who wrote the number had no idea what this was and said it wasn't a TSB. However the tech and SA both used it to determine where to look. So my guess is that we're near a TSB if they both used it as a point to start repairs and determine the next steps. My belt should be replaced later today. From there they'll try to replicate the issue and determine if a deflection pulley needs to ordered and replaced.

I picked my car up today and my advisor mentioned they haven't had really many complaints about it and engineering mentioned it wasn't too common but I brought up on the forums it is very common. Just not many bring it in to diagnose. Who knows!

I would like to think it is getting closer to a TSB based on all this

[GabesSlowM4]

Hey guys, picked up the car Thursday. Belt was replaced but squeaking still persists albeit somewhat quieter maybe?? When I picked the car up it was a warm 70 degrees. SA and tech both told me to reach back to them should the sound return. Which I just finished scheduling a minute ago. Sound was present yesterday with 40 degree weather and rain. SA says if he can replicate the sound he should be able to replace the deflection/idler pulley next. So lets hope this get done!

[Krisp97]

Originally Posted by GabesSlowM4

Hey guys, picked up the car Thursday. Belt was replaced but squeaking still persists albeit somewhat quieter maybe?? When I picked the car up it was a warm 70 degrees. SA and tech both told me to reach back to them should the sound return. Which I just finished scheduling a minute ago. Sound was present yesterday with 40 degree weather and rain. SA says if he can replicate the sound he should be able to replace the deflection/idler pulley next. So lets hope this get done!

The protocol the dealerships have to follow is asinine especially when this issue is almost ALWAYS blatantly the idler/deflection pulley.

[SwankPeRFection]

I have literally never understood why when a tech knows (and they should know by now) that this is a pulley and not a belt problem, why they don’t just tell the help line that. Did you replace the belt? Yep… didn’t do anything… you know because it didn’t do anything on other cars with this same problem. I get it that BMW wants step by step part throwing at the diagnosis level, but some things that you know will legit go a certain way because you’ve dealt with similar situations in the past, you can pretty much tell them what they wanna hear to OK the “real” parts that need to be warranty replaced. This is just wasting labor hours and the customer’s time going in there over and over again, not to mention all the shit that has to come off just to get to the affected components. This is why dealerships charge too much to do simple fixes… because they apply this same “blinders on” stupidity even when it’s not warranty and the customer pays for it all.

[Krisp97]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

I have literally never understood why when a tech knows (and they should know by now) that this is a pulley and not a belt problem, why they don’t just tell the help line that. Did you replace the belt? Yep… didn’t do anything… you know because it didn’t do anything on other cars with this same problem. I get it that BMW wants step by step part throwing at the diagnosis level, but some things that you know will legit go a certain way because you’ve dealt with similar situations in the past, you can pretty much tell them what they wanna hear to OK the “real” parts that need to be warranty replaced. This is just wasting labor hours and the customer’s time going in there over and over again, not to mention all the shit that has to come off just to get to the affected components. This is why dealerships charge too much to do simple fixes… because they apply this same “blinders on” stupidity even when it’s not warranty and the customer pays for it all.

It truly wastes everyone's time as they have to pop off all sorts of panels and drain coolant, its a giant process accessing the pulleys/belt on these platforms. They had to do that twice for me

[geckoRuss]

Originally Posted by Krisp97

***RESOLVED as of 3/18/24: Here is a video of the noise at cold start. In my case, the culprit was the Deflection Pulley aka Idler Pulley: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7L_otqh_Bxk

I have found little information regarding this sound with my G80 M3 on cold start in low temperatures. I noticed when in the low 30 degree F and below, the car squeals/whistles for a few moments, sometimes a few minutes if very cold.

Initially thought its probably a belt or pulley, took my car to BMW and they said it was due to aftermarket intakes. I knew this wasnt the case, reverted back to stock: same sound persisted. Not related to intakes at all.

Car is back at BMW a second time now since 01/10/2023. They have replicated and identified the sound, thinking it was a pulley or belt sound. They replaced the belt, retested, and today said the noise persists. I miss my car!

They are opening a case with BMW NA and going to record audio clips to submit with the claim. I am frustrated I haven't had the car long and now this happens, but my dealership has been very determined and eager to sort this out.

I will continue to post updates as I get them. I also posted some in the older thread about G82 M4 Cold Start Noises. I started a new thread in light of helping others that seem to have this mysterious noise that is not documented hardly anywhere.

Did the squealing happen sometimes when driving very slowly like through a neighborhood or parking lot? Think I may be experiencing the same thing. Only happens sometimes for me though.

[Krisp97]

Originally Posted by geckoRuss

Did the squealing happen sometimes when driving very slowly like through a neighborhood or parking lot? Think I may be experiencing the same thing. Only happens sometimes for me though.

If I started it on a very cold morning and the squealing was persistent, it would continue for just about 1-2 minutes at low rpm driving, somewhere between 1600-2k rpm it would make a squeal as it passed through that rev range.

Mine was really odd and hard to chase. I am glad it is fixed now. Although after having my car back for a week, I just blew a charge pipe off while driving. Just got it back yet again and said "the charge pipe was not full seated" which was probably from mis-installation when they put it back together after pulley replacement. Shit happens

[geckoRuss]

Originally Posted by Krisp97

If I started it on a very cold morning and the squealing was persistent, it would continue for just about 1-2 minutes at low rpm driving, somewhere between 1600-2k rpm it would make a squeal as it passed through that rev range.

Mine was really odd and hard to chase. I am glad it is fixed now. Although after having my car back for a week, I just blew a charge pipe off while driving. Just got it back yet again and said "the charge pipe was not full seated" which was probably from mis-installation when they put it back together after pulley replacement. Shit happens

Sheesh…hopefully all repairs where taken care of by dealer. Yeah I noticed mine in the morning when it was nice and cool nothing in the afternoon however.

[GabesSlowM4]

Update boys: So after the belt replacement I've taken the car back to the dealership. I met with the service advisor directly and swapped videos I captured containing the audio of the whining persisting despite the belt replacement. Service Advisor was very helpful and understanding. He even went outside and started documenting the noise on video via his personal cell. So he has my videos and his own videos we recorded together at the dealership. He explained to me now that the issue still persists despite repairs this is now bumped to a "level 2" and they have to open a case with BMW NA. He explained the more documentation they have the better. This was done Friday and they have had the car since then. I'm still waiting for an update on the issue but if I don't hear back by end of day today I'll give them a call tomorrow. Like others have said pretty frustrating but the dealership and my advisor have been beyond professional and helpful. Can't say enough good about them. However, if the issue continues to persist for me even after these second round of repairs I may be tempted to try and initiate a buy back. My car only has 7,000 miles on it. On a side note I may be able to test all models of BMW by the time this is resolved with all the loaners I've been in! lol

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by GabesSlowM4

Update boys: So after the belt replacement I've taken the car back to the dealership. I met with the service advisor directly and swapped videos I captured containing the audio of the whining persisting despite the belt replacement. Service Advisor was very helpful and understanding. He even went outside and started documenting the noise on video via his personal cell. So he has my videos and his own videos we recorded together at the dealership. He explained to me now that the issue still persists despite repairs this is now bumped to a "level 2" and they have to open a case with BMW NA. He explained the more documentation they have the better. This was done Friday and they have had the car since then. I'm still waiting for an update on the issue but if I don't hear back by end of day today I'll give them a call tomorrow. Like others have said pretty frustrating but the dealership and my advisor have been beyond professional and helpful. Can't say enough good about them. However, if the issue continues to persist for me even after these second round of repairs I may be tempted to try and initiate a buy back. My car only has 7,000 miles on it. On a side note I may be able to test all models of BMW by the time this is resolved with all the loaners I've been in! lol

Just tell them to stop fucking around and replace both the idler and tensioner pulleys on the damn accessory belt and be done with it. Anything else based on all the docs you can provide via this thread and other people getting the “close to TSB” actions by BMW should be proof enough. Tell them you’re tired of brining it back over and over to do stupid minimal fixes that doesn’t address a bullshit pulley bearing that BMW got as part of a bad batch to their factory. This isn’t rocket science.

[Krisp97]

Originally Posted by GabesSlowM4

Update boys: So after the belt replacement I've taken the car back to the dealership. I met with the service advisor directly and swapped videos I captured containing the audio of the whining persisting despite the belt replacement. Service Advisor was very helpful and understanding. He even went outside and started documenting the noise on video via his personal cell. So he has my videos and his own videos we recorded together at the dealership. He explained to me now that the issue still persists despite repairs this is now bumped to a "level 2" and they have to open a case with BMW NA. He explained the more documentation they have the better. This was done Friday and they have had the car since then. I'm still waiting for an update on the issue but if I don't hear back by end of day today I'll give them a call tomorrow. Like others have said pretty frustrating but the dealership and my advisor have been beyond professional and helpful. Can't say enough good about them. However, if the issue continues to persist for me even after these second round of repairs I may be tempted to try and initiate a buy back. My car only has 7,000 miles on it. On a side note I may be able to test all models of BMW by the time this is resolved with all the loaners I've been in! lol

Sounds very similar to my situation. Do not do a buyback! Its the idler pulley. Once they allow the repair, it will go away I can almost guarantee you. Mine has been fine since, except when they reassembled the car, they didn't fully seat a charge pipe and it popped off while driving so that was a separate trip lol.

[Krisp97]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Just tell them to stop fucking around and replace both the idler and tensioner pulleys on the damn accessory belt and be done with it. Anything else based on all the docs you can provide via this thread and other people getting the “close to TSB” actions by BMW should be proof enough. Tell them you’re tired of brining it back over and over to do stupid minimal fixes that doesn’t address a bullshit pulley bearing that BMW got as part of a bad batch to their factory. This isn’t rocket science.

It sounds like an easy fix like that, but unfortunately warranty repair isn't decide by the dealership. They can't just hang parts hoping it fixes an issue without permission from BMW NA. It definitely is a bad batch of parts that it seems like they are keeping on the down low. They do need to release a TSB already because its widely apparent that this is a problem.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by Krisp97

It sounds like an easy fix like that, but unfortunately warranty repair isn't decide by the dealership. They can't just hang parts hoping it fixes an issue without permission from BMW NA. It definitely is a bad batch of parts that it seems like they are keeping on the down low. They do need to release a TSB already because its widely apparent that this is a problem.

It’s not about that, it’s about idiot mechanics who don’t just report the issue to BMW tech line and say, look, this shit is documented in a Canadian BMW Action doc which really needs to be a TSB and it’s the damn idlers. The service manager needs to get involved with that call, but generally they’re all idiots who don’t “push” matters enough to get the right balls rolling. It’s an inconvenience to the customer to throw parts at something when they already know what’s up, they just need to point the script readers on the tech line to the already published docs BMW Canada released on this bs factory defect. It’s there, they’re just not looking. I deal with people putting on blinders every day and not thinking outside of procedures written by someone who likes to waste time and get paid for it just to get to Z when Z was always the problem if they’d have used common sense and past experience to fix it. Honestly, I’d print that other guys service paperwork and had that shit to your service manager and tell him he had one last try to fix it per what’s already documented and get your car back to you in working condition. Imagine how much shit has to be taken off and put back in and taken off again to get to the same buried ass pulleys and belt in there. I’m frustrated for you dude… I see this stupidity all the time.

[GabesSlowM4]

Resolved boys! Picked up the car this morning. Squeeking at idle is gone. Will continue to test in the coming days but as of right now I have no more symptoms!